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Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.16 16:39:00 -
[1]
So I decided to use evemon to figure out how much time I would be spending in station.
It turns out that even with a full set of +5 implants and a remap that is intel and memory heavy, I will take 95 days to train all my learning skills.
So this is the best case scenario and this is with the learning skills trained in order that is most efficient.
Now I could see how this would be acceptable if having all learning skills trained up meant that you were significantly faster at training other skills. But this is not the case, the difference in attributes brought on by having all learning skills trained dose not pay for its time taken until you have been training skills for about 1 year 3 months and 28 days.
So in the same way one considers buying solar panels and the time it takes for them to pay for themselves I have considerd the same logic with time as a variable in skill training.
tl;dr
95days of time with +5s active before the remainder of my learning skills are at lvl 5
The improvement in skill train speed that results from this 95 day regiment will only compensate for itself in time afforded after 1 year (averaged)
This means that you will earn the time you spent on the learning skills back in the form of time saved when training other skills after a very long period of time around a year and this is a model based off of my toon which already has most of the learning skills trained rather high.
If somebody could make a new toon and put it in evemon and calculate the time taken to train all learning skills assuming that the clone has +5s then please post it here. As well as the time required before your time lost is paid off.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.08.16 18:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 16/08/2010 18:09:49
This thread is both new and exciting. Seriously.
PS. Either train them to full or don't, they are what they are and CCP is more likely to remove them, than to start tweaking them.
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CAPSLOCKBROKE
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.16 18:54:00 -
[3]
You are actually grossly wrong on the truth of how long it takes to make the learning skills worth there while. You need to first make a plan where you train all learning skills to IV basic and III advanced. Then you need to compare a new plan and how long it will take bringing all the skills to V. Its actually much longer to make it worth your while but definitely worth it to take them all to III or IV.
Also, it is impossible to make training the final advanced charisma skill to V worth your time. If you bring every skill with charisma to V the training time bonus of the learning skill still isn't worth it. Just a fun lil fact. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CAPSLOCK, BECAUSE SOMETIMES REGULAR FONT JUST, ISN'T, GOOD ENOUGH. |
Mona X
Caldari C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.08.16 20:30:00 -
[4]
Just make a plan. At some point Evemon itself will propose learnings.
Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them. |
Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.16 20:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CAPSLOCKBROKE You are actually grossly wrong on the truth of how long it takes to make the learning skills worth there while. You need to first make a plan where you train all learning skills to IV basic and III advanced. Then you need to compare a new plan and how long it will take bringing all the skills to V. Its actually much longer to make it worth your while but definitely worth it to take them all to III or IV.
Also, it is impossible to make training the final advanced charisma skill to V worth your time. If you bring every skill with charisma to V the training time bonus of the learning skill still isn't worth it. Just a fun lil fact.
This discussion has been going on for a long time.
If you play the game for a few years all learning skills to 5/5 will be worthwhile, if you do charisma to 4/3 it may take 10 days shorter. It's still almost 3 months subscription for "learning to learn" which doesn't add anything to your in-game abilities.
Personally I find it kind of ridiculous. And yes I know there's people who'd love to do learning skills for the first two years with some orgastic delight if it was possible. I'm not one of those people.
*shrug*
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Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.16 23:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Natalie Caladan
Originally by: CAPSLOCKBROKE You are actually grossly wrong on the truth of how long it takes to make the learning skills worth there while. You need to first make a plan where you train all learning skills to IV basic and III advanced. Then you need to compare a new plan and how long it will take bringing all the skills to V. Its actually much longer to make it worth your while but definitely worth it to take them all to III or IV.
Also, it is impossible to make training the final advanced charisma skill to V worth your time. If you bring every skill with charisma to V the training time bonus of the learning skill still isn't worth it. Just a fun lil fact.
This discussion has been going on for a long time.
If you play the game for a few years all learning skills to 5/5 will be worthwhile, if you do charisma to 4/3 it may take 10 days shorter. It's still almost 3 months subscription for "learning to learn" which doesn't add anything to your in-game abilities.
Personally I find it kind of ridiculous. And yes I know there's people who'd love to do learning skills for the first two years with some orgastic delight if it was possible. I'm not one of those people.
*shrug*
So 3 months subscription time to learn all learning to 5?
Then thats alot of money... to spin your ship.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2010.08.16 23:32:00 -
[7]
You can do it like the smart people, who train the learnings to 4/3 with some ship and weapon skills/other stuff in between to keep them busy. Train the skills which you are currently using (perception/willpower for combat oriented chars) and leave the others untrained for a while. Train them to 4/4 later on once you are confident with your abilities.
I did that when I started and back then I didn't have a speed bonus. Actually I always had something to do and I had fun. Shocking truth for some whiners there. In the long term I lose a couple of weeks of training time. So what? I don't care if i have to wait some time longer for a 2nd/3rd crosstrained weapon system or ship (that's about the time when the V's are starting to pay off themselves). It's not like I am in a hurry.
Ofc you can do it like dumb people as well. Try to be a perfectionist and get everything to V without thinking. Spin your rookie ship in station for a couple of months. Then quit the game long before that training time starts to pay off (years). Come to the forums and cry a river.
Your choice.
P.S. To the OP: Aren't you the dude who gave some ridiculously bad advice on armor fittings a good while ago? And the one who got set red by an entire alliance? I recall something like that. No wonder you came up with that original and refreshing thread. Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator |
Jezebel Ochre
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:25:00 -
[8]
You're obviously doing something wrong as it will take me 3 months from today, just started this toon today as well, to max out learning skills and that's with +3 implants. Try cutting down your cybernetics to just 1 and using your remaps more effectively. |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.17 02:39:00 -
[9]
Well after you wall of text I came to the conclusion of:
Thats why i dont train the rank 3 to level V ------------------------------
CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.17 07:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jezebel Ochre You're obviously doing something wrong as it will take me 3 months from today, just started this toon today as well, to max out learning skills and that's with +3 implants. Try cutting down your cybernetics to just 1 and using your remaps more effectively.
Well the remapping options really complicate things as optmizing e.g. min/maxing more or less makes your character useless for the first nine or ten months.
Of course you don't want to "waste" remaps just for learning skills. You can remap int/mem and train basic learnings and advanced int/mem and some support skills before you remap to more per/wil or to "balanced" per/int.
Cybernetics V is a must if you want to optmize your learning speed as it enables all attributes to get an instant +2 boost compared to Cybernetics I, that's 10 attribute points in one go - if you can afford it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.17 07:43:00 -
[11]
For the record, it takes 632,235 minutes (439 days) to earn back the step from lvl IV to lvl V in an advanced learning skillà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
azrael211
Caldari Interstellar eXodus
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Posted - 2010.08.17 11:19:00 -
[12]
When EVE first came out there were not that many skills let alone advanced learning skills...most players trained for a couple of ships and then trained up support skills to they could play the game...go pirating or pvp etc. I havent taken my advanced learnning skills to lvl 5 I dont se the point it would waste time for me when I can be training more fun skills.
People need to stop worrying about how long it takes to learn something and get in to the game as we had to do years aog...you dont need a 50m sp char to have a good deal of fun...my alts have nothing like thta number of sp and run around happily doing missions and ganking people.
Sorry to pick this thread to rant in but i am bored of people complaining about learnig skills and htta they cant play the game until they have a super char. |
Anddeh McNab
Matari Department of Gun Control
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Posted - 2010.08.17 11:52:00 -
[13]
*sigh* Xenuria just can't EVE. First your "It'll take me X years till I can play EVE!" now this. As Tippia said, it takes 439 days for just one of the advanced learning skills to actually save you time. So for all five it's about 6 years. Then there's the basic learning skills and the Learning skill itself. Personally I did all the learning skills (basic and advanced) to IV then Learning V. This is plenty and doesn't take alot of time at all, maybe a month.
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Blanko Vega
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Posted - 2010.08.17 14:09:00 -
[14]
You don't need alot of SP to have fun.
Check out my main: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Xre_Sloracknor http://www.22ndbrdu.com/Killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=48998
I am flying a Daredevil and its fun as hell, I can fly an Ishtar to rat with and a Mega for fleet stuff.
Chill out and play the game; it sounds like you are just looking for excuses.
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.17 14:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab As Tippia said, it takes 439 days for just one of the advanced learning skills to actually save you time. So for all five it's about 6 years.
As they usually come in pairs (per/wil and int/mem) I guess it's about 3 years.
But nevertheless, it's worth investing into them as it already takes quite a while (1.5-2 years years) to be able to decently fly all sub-capital ships of say the Minmatar faction.
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LoRDa RaMOs
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.08.17 14:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab *sigh* Xenuria just can't EVE. First your "It'll take me X years till I can play EVE!" now this. As Tippia said, it takes 439 days for just one of the advanced learning skills to actually save you time. So for all five it's about 6 years. Then there's the basic learning skills and the Learning skill itself. Personally I did all the learning skills (basic and advanced) to IV then Learning V. This is plenty and doesn't take alot of time at all, maybe a month.
I agree with you sir.
Might even train them all to lvl 3 and trust in EVEMon for further levels. MOST of the time, it won't recommend you to train a learning skill to lvl 4.
Also, learning skills are lame and give CCP some noob dollars. Don't let 'em take 2 months of your game time when you could be in a Raven making millions out of missions or Drake blobbing a few guys in nullsec. Make CCP consider to take your money some other way, and support this thread: Oh wait, CSM doesn't have it as an issue. Only a few CCP'ers have said they don't like it but there's not an official response yet. Forget about it.
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Tira 0'TooIe
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Posted - 2010.08.17 16:30:00 -
[17]
I wish all the alt posters on the "get rid of learning skills" advertising campaign would STFU. Srsly STFU. You're an idiot. A complete dumbass. EVE is not for you. If you can't open evemon, put in a plan, and then look at its suggestions for learning skills and then DO THE MATH, you're an idiot.
Unless you plan on training all of your learning skills right off the bat, there is no point in remapping as soon as you create your character. Only if you do rank 3's to level 4 should you consider it. Its not worth wasting a remap on approx 2 days of saved time. You'll want that remap when you decide to go for a cap ship or BS 5.
My most valuable character has just shy of 10mill skillpoints and has made approx 12 billion ISK. Skillpoints have nothing to do with success in EVE. Stop thinking like a min/max'er playing D&D. This is a very different game. |
Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.17 16:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab *sigh* Xenuria just can't EVE. First your "It'll take me X years till I can play EVE!" now this. As Tippia said, it takes 439 days for just one of the advanced learning skills to actually save you time. So for all five it's about 6 years. Then there's the basic learning skills and the Learning skill itself. Personally I did all the learning skills (basic and advanced) to IV then Learning V. This is plenty and doesn't take alot of time at all, maybe a month.
I really would not invest to much in what tippia has to say if I were you. Especially if its math related.
With that said, learning skills do appear to take a long time to pay off. However training learning to 5 is a must! All the players on the leader boards with the most skills all have their learning skills maxed out. There must be something to it.
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.17 17:15:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 17/08/2010 17:21:40 Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 17/08/2010 17:17:51
Originally by: Tira 0'TooIe I wish all the alt posters on the "get rid of learning skills" advertising campaign would STFU. Srsly STFU. You're an idiot. A complete dumbass. EVE is not for you. If you can't open evemon, put in a plan, and then look at its suggestions for learning skills and then DO THE MATH, you're an idiot.
Firstly: being able to use EVEmon and being against learning skills don't exclude one another. Secondly: swearing and rudeness are not an argument. Honestly learning skills are a matter of taste, there's no right or wrong in being in favour of or being against them. Some like Mahler more and some prefer Stravinsky. Or like/dislike Incarna. Thirdly: if you use EVEmon and plan all the combat ships you want to fly and modules you want to use the coming 3-4 years it does advise 5/5 for all attributes except charisma. The fact that most people have problems planning so far ahead doesn't mean they won't benefit from it in the long run. For industrials this isn't the case as they're very heavily focussed on int/mem.
Originally by: Tira 0'TooIe Unless you plan on training all of your learning skills right off the bat, there is no point in remapping as soon as you create your character.
Untrue. You can immediately remap and do all the primary learning skills, the seconday intelligence and memory AND a lot of engineering, electronics, mechanical, science (and arguably drones and navigation) support skills before remapping to either balanced or full perception/willpower.
Since the secondary perception and willpower learning skills have their own attribute as primary it's better to only train them up to IV or V after your second remap.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.17 17:21:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tippia on 17/08/2010 17:23:19
Originally by: Xenuria I really would not invest to much in what tippia has to say if I were you. Especially if its math related.
Seeing as how I've never been wrong, and you've never been right in that area (or, indeed anything EVE-related)à you probably should. Do you want to know why this particular number is correct, or will you refuse to learn as usual?
Quote: However training learning to 5 is a must!
Not really, no. They're handy, but they're not a requirement. In fact, if they stand in the way of you having fun, they are entirely, 100% superfluous.
Quote: All the players on the leader boards with the most skills all have their learning skills maxed out.
It's not a contest, you knowà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/08/2010 17:23:19
Originally by: Xenuria I really would not invest to much in what tippia has to say if I were you. Especially if its math related.
Seeing as how I've never been wrong, and you've never been right in that area (or, indeed anything EVE-related)à you probably should. Do you want to know why this particular number is correct, or will you refuse to learn as usual?
Quote: However training learning to 5 is a must!
Not really, no. They're handy, but they're not a requirement. In fact, if they stand in the way of you having fun, they are entirely, 100% superfluous.
Quote: All the players on the leader boards with the most skills all have their learning skills maxed out.
It's not a contest, you knowà
I think everybody will agree with me that training learning to 5 is an absolute must.
I also suggest that you look up words before you use them in a post. Look I don't know you ok, I have no idea what your home life is like or what you go through. Whatever problems you may have do not excuse you from relentlessly trolling and bull****ting threads that I make. I am going to ask you one last time. Please Stop.
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:12:00 -
[22]
I personally dislike learning skills, but my viewpoint isn't quite as warped as some of you.
Realistically, if your goal is to fly a battlecruiser, t2 cruiser hull, or non-minmatar sub-battleship, you have around 2 years of training to complete in order to fly it as well as possible (player-skills and experience aside). This includes all core skills, t2 weapons systems, perfect ship skill for said ship, and any drone skills or extras that are also applicable. This means that at the minimum you do want to train 4/3 learning skills, and even then you're loosing a little time in the long run.
Most (intelligent) players will advise a newb to fly a frigate or cruiser hull and aim to fly t2 frigate hulls in the near future. This cuts down on requisite skills to fly it well, and so you need minimal learning skills to realize a complete skill plan for said ship. The problem is, and has always been, this creates welfare recipients and not independant players. There are prescious few things you can do with a frigate hull. You can tackle in pvp, you can take on other frigate/cruiser hulls selectively solo pvp, you can speed tank FW missions for other players to kill for you, etc. You're almost completely dependant on other players for your livelyhood. Yes, you can also live cheaply because your hull only costs a few million isk, but you quickly find that moving up in the world requires larger ships, more expensive mods, and more than likely you're not able to fund these things when you pilot an interceptor.
This creates an alternative path that most players promote (I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea and I used this on all of my combat alts): train for a bc, skill it for minimal tank needed for L3 missions as well as enough weapon skills to complete them in decent time, and then ride this skillset out for a few months while you train (or complete) learning skills to 5/4. This gives the new character a much better personal income level, but it still only stagnates at a given point and creates months of being a mediocre bc pilot who is unable to do anything but mission.
Finally, you get the path that most newbs without guidance follow: you train whatever strikes your fancy and leave learning skills at low levels for years. You end up with a good hodgepodge of skills at lvl 3-4 and you're able to mine, mission, trade, explore at moderate effectiveness anywhere in empire if you like. Sadly, while this is one of the best ways for a newb to discover his or her favorite past-time in EVE, it's a terrible way to find yourself a corp that will help keep you interested too. Corps don't want a generalist who can't do anything well, but does everything just passably. Wormhole corps don't want a quasi-effective drake pilot who has a t1 scanning ship and flys a retriever. Pirate corps don't want a tackler who hasn't optomized weapons, tackle, and navigation skills. Mining corps don't want a sub-standard barge pilot who can also fly a t1 bc. Etc.
Bottom line is, the name of the game is getting specilized since you do want to invest a year or more into a single line of training (be it a given ship for pve/pvp, industrial skills, or anything else). But without subbing more accounts from the get-go, you really have no way to do this and maintain an interesting progression. EVE just isn't fun with a single account unless you're one of the fortunate few who find out what they love to do (and get into a corp that specializes in that role) quickly so that the relatively stagnant months of learning skills are not as harsh.
I'd reccomend anyone who's really interested in keeping up to sub two accounts, one to ignore learning skills and try things out immidiately and the second to train learning skills and optomize later on when you find out what you really want to do long-term. Eventually you can put both characters on a single account and use the toon without learning skills as an assistant to your main.
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Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
You make a valid point, however you can't honestly expect players to be satisfied with one ship type indefinably. I expect to some day fly a titan, I will only be able to do that if I train my learning skills. Currently I am not too far off from flying one but I could instead spend that time training other things that would increase the effectiveness of other things I like to do in eve.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xenuria I think everybody will agree with me that training learning to 5 is an absolute must.
No. Just very very handy. I'll grant you that I first read it as learning (lowercase l) as in learning skills in general, rather than Learning (uppercase l) as in the skill, but that doesn't actually change the main point: if any learning skill stands in the way of fun, it's completely safe to ignore. It is never a must, and most certainly not an absolute must.
Quote: Whatever problems you may have do not excuse you from relentlessly trolling and bull****ting threads that I make. I am going to ask you one last time. Please Stop.
My problem is that you continuously post incorrect, ill-conceived, misinformed stuff. I am not relentlessly trolling ù I'm correcting your mistakes. I will not stop doing this until you stop being wrong, especially about things that are blatantly obvious, where you really should know better, and where the correct answer can be found with little to no effort in the wiki. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/08/2010 18:37:19
Originally by: Xenuria I think everybody will agree with me that training learning to 5 is an absolute must.
No. Just very very handy. I'll grant you that I first read it as learning (lowercase l) as in learning skills in general, rather than Learning (uppercase l) as in the skill, but that doesn't actually change the main point: if any learning skill stands in the way of fun, it's completely safe to ignore. It is never a must, and most certainly not an absolute must.
Quote: Whatever problems you may have do not excuse you from relentlessly trolling and bull****ting threads that I make. I am going to ask you one last time. Please Stop.
My problem is that you continuously post incorrect, ill-conceived, misinformed stuff. I am not relentlessly trolling ù I'm correcting your mistakes. I will not stop doing this until you stop being wrong, especially about things that are blatantly obvious, where you really should know better, and where the correct answer can be found with little to no effort in the wiki.
In fact, if anything, you are trolling my posts ù I post correct information, and out of nowhere, you jump in spouting irrelevant nonsense and telling people not to listen to my (correct) information just because you harbour a grudge from being told that 20,000 is less than 50,000.
like that time I linked to the wiki on EHP and your argument was that it was wrong because it can be edited by anybody?
Dude, your finished I just opened a petition on you. I suggest you stop trolling and take a break.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.17 18:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tippia on 17/08/2010 19:00:06
Originally by: Xenuria like that time I linked to the wiki on EHP and your argument was that it was wrong because it can be edited by anybody?
Seeing as how I've never made that argument, no.
More like the time when you thought that 20k EHP meant you survived longer than if you had 50k EHP; the time you thought that repping didn't have cycles; the time you though you didn't need EC V to create alliances; the time you tried to imply that resists didn't matter for drone damageà and now, the time you didn't bother to check the maths on skill times (and I even let you get off on the time when you thought agent quality affects loot since others had corrected you already).
Quote: Dude, your finished I just opened a petition on you. I suggest you stop trolling and take a break.
Can't stop something you've never started. You still seem to confuse "correcting" with "trolling"à
Oh, btw, did you know that it takes ~11.5M SP to earn back the step from Learning IV to Learning V? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xenuria
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
You make a valid point, however you can't honestly expect players to be satisfied with one ship type indefinably. I expect to some day fly a titan, I will only be able to do that if I train my learning skills. Currently I am not too far off from flying one but I could instead spend that time training other things that would increase the effectiveness of other things I like to do in eve.
You're confusing my point (and missed the first line), if you think i'm content with the status quo. I -do- realize that there's a really massive hump to get over (even if you don't consider learning skills at all) in order to actually explore many avenues as a player. You have core fitting, navigation, cap, etc. skills, weapon/adv weapon upgrades, thermodynamics, drone skills, and a few other misc. skills that apply to the good piloting of ANY ship, frigate to titan. My supposition was that, regardless of how you cut and chop your learning skill regemine, you'll still end up spending plenty of stagnant training time on them (or you'll get even more stagnant idle time training those long high-end skills for extra weeks.
As I said, the only true way around it is a multi-account approach (which is standard practice for most of us who've been around for years) where you have a properly planned, learning skill trained, perfectly remapped character set toward a clear goal, and another character to just mess around with for a year or so while that character becomes playable. In a practical sense, it's not something a newb can get into unless he or she is fine with paying two subscription fees until it's possible to plex one or both accounts.
Again, I don't like the learning skills as they stand, and i'd be more than happy to see them change. I'm merely offering the multitude of options i've seen and used to minimize the dull boring time where you're just logging in to train.
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Xenuria
Gallente The Sanatarium
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
Originally by: Xenuria
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
You make a valid point, however you can't honestly expect players to be satisfied with one ship type indefinably. I expect to some day fly a titan, I will only be able to do that if I train my learning skills. Currently I am not too far off from flying one but I could instead spend that time training other things that would increase the effectiveness of other things I like to do in eve.
You're confusing my point (and missed the first line), if you think i'm content with the status quo. I -do- realize that there's a really massive hump to get over (even if you don't consider learning skills at all) in order to actually explore many avenues as a player. You have core fitting, navigation, cap, etc. skills, weapon/adv weapon upgrades, thermodynamics, drone skills, and a few other misc. skills that apply to the good piloting of ANY ship, frigate to titan. My supposition was that, regardless of how you cut and chop your learning skill regemine, you'll still end up spending plenty of stagnant training time on them (or you'll get even more stagnant idle time training those long high-end skills for extra weeks.
As I said, the only true way around it is a multi-account approach (which is standard practice for most of us who've been around for years) where you have a properly planned, learning skill trained, perfectly remapped character set toward a clear goal, and another character to just mess around with for a year or so while that character becomes playable. In a practical sense, it's not something a newb can get into unless he or she is fine with paying two subscription fees until it's possible to plex one or both accounts.
Again, I don't like the learning skills as they stand, and i'd be more than happy to see them change. I'm merely offering the multitude of options i've seen and used to minimize the dull boring time where you're just logging in to train.
I see how the multi-account approach can be very helpfull but I also see how learning skills become a great marketing tool for CCP. Because under the assumption that even half the people who start playing eve spend time on the learning skills then that is subscription time they are paying for without actually having a chance to actually play.. Well I mean sure they can still play.. But they are going to be sitting in a velator or some noob frig for a long time.
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Natalie Caladan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:49:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 17/08/2010 19:56:28 Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 17/08/2010 19:54:57
Originally by: Irae Ragwan *snip*
You make really good well thought-out posts, nice to read!
The problem with learning skills and character profession choice is that it's usually done in retrospect. I meet so many people in-game that regret what they've done before "now they know better". Some quit playing their 1st character and start all over (if they find out pretty soon - like me); others may quit if they see how much time things are going to take and how many time they wasted. And I often hear people in my corp who started out without knowing anything about the game and ending up with only 9 million SP after a year and not being able to fly anything well and being bitter because a player who started 3 months later has double their SP and can fly much bigger ships.
The amount of required knowledge about the game mechanics when you start playing EVE is enormous, that is if you want to get through the first months without making stupid mistakes. Whether it's the learning skills, the limited tutorial or anything else, or perhaps it's working as intended - I do not know. Fact is that a lot of people aren't too happy about this start afterwards.
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SilentSta1ker
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Posted - 2010.08.17 23:41:00 -
[30]
Why train your skills to lvl 5 for the x3 learning anyway ? Honestly if you do the math that extra 1 point doesnt do diddly to make up for the almost month it takes to learn it even for a x8 or x10 skill..
Train your learning skills to lvl 5 and then the x3 learning skills to lvl 4.. On a new account it took me like 1 month to do.
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