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Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:00:00 -
[1]
>>-INCOMING MESSAGE-<< >>-AUTH HASH: 33510C32206F0B0D295EDC54FDC5F2ED-<< >>-MESSAGE START-<<
>>FLEET COORDINATION COMMISSION<< >>OPERATION MIDNIGHT SUN BRIEFING<<
Recently, a number of different strategies have been tried to help halt the Sansha Nation onslaught throughout Empire space. While we have had some success in space, we have had very little impact on the ground. As such [FCORD] in cooperation with Operation Bad Moon and Alex Rendez have been developing a system to combat Nation drop ships.
The system uses missiles equipped with MIRV EMP Warheads to strike at multiple Nation drop zones. This allows us to disable drop ships, while minimising collateral damage. Missiles are launched from ships in orbit, using targeting data from modified camera drones and ground forces. Missiles typically carry enough warheads to ground 2-6 drop ships, possibly more if they have landed in the same drop zone.
The missile works in three stages. First, the primary stage is used for space flight. It carries between 2-12 Secondary stage missiles, depending on the size of the missile. The missile breaks into the secondary stage once it reaches the atmosphere, with the primary stage shell burning up and providing no further purpose.
The secondary stage missiles are used for atmospheric flight. Each one carries an extensive suite of targeting and navigation systems, and 10 tertiary stage warheads. The main purpose of the secondary stage is to direct the warheads to their individual targets, as well as provide extended range from point of atmospheric entry
The tertiary stage involves a cluster of 10 EMP warheads. Each cluster is usually aimed at a single drop ship. Upon impact with the drop ship, the warhead discharges, putting most systems offline, and in some cases, take the ship offline with just the kinetic damage inflicted. Those warheads that do not make direct impact with the drop ship fire their EMP pulse before they hit the ground, thus minimising any interference by the terrain. All the warheads continue to give off periodic EMP pulses, further inhibiting any attempts to operate the drop ships.
There are several reasons that small clusters of warheads are used as opposed to a single large missile. For one, the use of several smaller warheads allows for a more focused area of attack, thus minimising collateral damage while still maintain attack strength. This extends to any possible kinetic damage warheads may inflict upon impact to other objects.
Clusters also allow for the possibility of hitting several drop ships if they are in close proximity. In one testing scenario, three drop ships were it by a single cluster. Use of clusters also increases redundancy. The chances of all 10 tertiary stage warheads missing are much lower than a single missile.
Some may ask why we only use EMP warheads, rather than simply blow up the drop ships. First, the capture of any drop ships by ground forces may provide instrumental in gaining access to Sansha staging posts and Fleet yards, allowing us to take the fight to them. This would not be possible with destroyed ships.
More importantly however, is to minimise collateral damage to any civilian infrastructure in proximity to drop zones, as well as civilians themselves. All EMP pulses are tuned to provide a powerful charge at short range, with a higher than normal diminishing reutrn over distance. This combined with their smaller radius means that the area of effect is smaller for each warhead. Any loss of strength is made up for by the other warheads.
While there are documented cases of people suffering illness from exposure to EMP, this is typically brought on by prolonged exposure in industrial environments where improper shielding is present. It is expect that the worst any persons would suffer would range from a mild headache to a serious migraine.
Persons interested in assisting in system deployment are encouraged to contact me by EVE Mail.
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Vlad Cetes
Caldari H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:06:00 -
[2]
You do realize that your plan will result in the destruction of all non-shielded electronics on the planet? In addition, drops are shielded from electromagnetic radiation due to the hostile nature of spaceflight. Nice try, too bad you won't be able to stop the inevitable. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grideris on 21/08/2010 15:08:58
Originally by: Vlad Cetes You do realize that your plan will result in the destruction of all non-shielded electronics on the planet? In addition, drops are shielded from electromagnetic radiation due to the hostile nature of spaceflight. Nice try, too bad you won't be able to stop the inevitable.
I think I addressed all of these points, besides the EM shielding. And yes, while they are shielded, this is only against normal environmental levels, which is MUCH lower than what the EMP pulses from the warheads would deliver.
And seriously from the sound of it, you hardly read the briefing. The entire planet? I would need a lot more firepower to attack that surface area.
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Vlad Cetes
Caldari H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:23:00 -
[4]
Consider this:
To attack all 50 drophships, you would need to deploy at a minimum 50 EMP warheads. Each EMP warhead would destroy electronics in a 1500 km radius. This of course, is all subject to the magnetic field of the planet. As well, these dropships are approaching populated areas. Your theory is good, but you fail to take into account the practical considerations.
Don't think about doing it actually in atmosphere. The air is sufficiently dense it would absorb the electromagnetic radiation. You would have to use a kinetic or nuclear weapon, and I highly doubt planetary administrators would like kindly upon their use. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Grideris on 21/08/2010 15:29:33
Originally by: Vlad Cetes Consider this:
To attack all 50 drophships, you would need to deploy at a minimum 50 EMP warheads. Each EMP warhead would destroy electronics in a 1500 km radius. This of course, is all subject to the magnetic field of the planet. As well, these dropships are approaching populated areas. Your theory is good, but you fail to take into account the practical considerations.
Don't think about doing it actually in atmosphere. The air is sufficiently dense it would absorb the electromagnetic radiation. You would have to use a kinetic or nuclear weapon, and I highly doubt planetary administrators would like kindly upon their use.
The EMP warheads do not have such a large range. In fact, they have a range of about 150m. It's lots of smaller range pulses hitting at one location.
What you're thinking is use of standard issue warheads normally used to attack ships in space. Now use of those would be crazy, and would do exactly as you say.
If you have other questions about the system, maybe it would be better for you to directly contact me.
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Zelda Wei
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Posted - 2010.08.21 17:00:00 -
[6]
Better dead that red Sansha.
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Alex Rendez
INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.21 17:16:00 -
[7]
Done right, the tactic will not result in any fatalities. Deploying the bus rockets almost immediately upon dropship landing and deactivating them before they have time to go anywhere, the estimated flight time would be anywhere from 30 to 180 seconds and a small yet precise EMP blast would not cause any damage to biological functions.
It's fast and effective, and it's been field tested. The only issue that remains would be the dropship landing sites, but warhead strength could be adjusted accordingly. It is very unlikely they would touch down in the middle of a major urban center. ______________________________________________
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.08.21 19:41:00 -
[8]
You are firing ordnance at a planet. That alone I think would trigger a rather menacing CONCORD response to your 'attempts'.
Disregarding that, I have already thought of two different methods to counter your MIRV technology. Defender missiles, if you are familiar with them, are both effective and outclass most offensive weaponry.
Do us the kindness of leaving your toys away from the dropships and the innocent civilians. I doubt you have considered the effects of EMP on people who use electronic devices to sustain their lives. ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer |
Drake Arson
Minmatar Redicuously Awesome Winged Reptiles
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Posted - 2010.08.21 23:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ghost Hunter You are firing ordnance at a planet. That alone I think would trigger a rather menacing CONCORD response to your 'attempts'.
Disregarding that, I have already thought of two different methods to counter your MIRV technology. Defender missiles, if you are familiar with them, are both effective and outclass most offensive weaponry.
Do us the kindness of leaving your toys away from the dropships and the innocent civilians. I doubt you have considered the effects of EMP on people who use electronic devices to sustain their lives.
They also seem to have forgotten that, Dropships that have been disabled in Air, Tend to make a pretty nasty landing. I wouldn't want to be standing under one when hit by one of these warheads. |
Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.22 01:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Grideris on 22/08/2010 01:52:00
Originally by: Drake Arson They also seem to have forgotten that, Dropships that have been disabled in Air, Tend to make a pretty nasty landing. I wouldn't want to be standing under one when hit by one of these warheads.
We have already considered that. Which is why we don't shoot them one they have taken off.
Originally by: Ghost Hunter Disregarding that, I have already thought of two different methods to counter your MIRV technology. Defender missiles, if you are familiar with them, are both effective and outclass most offensive weaponry.
Defenders? Seriously? Good luck getting them to hit the broadside of a titan, let alone an actual missile. There is a reason that you don't see them in use by most people - their targeting systems are terrible at prioritisation. Not to mention you can only target missiles currently targeted at your ship.
So might I recommend you take you defenders elsewhere? The reprocessing plant of your local space station seems like a good choice.
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.08.22 01:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Grideris
Redesigning a defender launch system to target your MIRVs would be a simple affair.
You are the ones shooting ordnance at a planet, after all. ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer |
Alex Rendez
INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Alex Rendez on 22/08/2010 02:26:43 Mr. Hunter, you are a respectable person. You and I have probably gotten off on the wrong foot already but let's be perfectly honest now, shall we?
You propose a coordinated countermeasure launch at a target moving roughly Mach 20... ~25,000 kilometres per hour, and expect to strike it perfectly with a ballistic weapon moving towards it at escape velocity, which can be upwards of a few kilometres per second. In all, these two small objects are rushing towards each other at about 15-20km/s. Your window of opportunity for detonation is about one-thirtieth of a second in length, if that, to destroy a single bus rocket.
Now, suppose you do manage to destroy the bus rocket, or knock it off course to the point at which it loses aerodynamic stability and tears itself apart at re-entry speed, you have added vast amounts of shrapnel and debris to the atmosphere that is now plummetting to the ground at near terminal velocity. What isn't desintegrated before impact is super-heated and carries enough kinetic force to rip through a building.
Would you like to be responsible for ACTUAL collateral damage, as you have now compromised a precise and coordinated non-lethal strike that has now become unstable in such a way that its effects are completely unpredictable? Furthermore, I would like to see you talk your way out of CONCORD's bureau of investigation as you have caused not only physical damage to terrestrial installations but have also attempted to counter an orbital ordnance deployment that was intended to save lives.
Mr. Hunter, with all due respect you are simply neglecting the scenarios that would come of your crude plan. You also have not researched the effects of an electromagnetic pulse as it comes in contact with the body; and I can assure you now that ANY trauma to follow would be extremely mundane and rare, and would far outweigh the prospect of becoming property of the Nation. ______________________________________________
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Alex Rendez
INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.22 02:36:00 -
[13]
Now, assuming you launched conventional or even modified Defender missiles from orbit to the MIRV bus rockets, it would be almost impossible and highly impractical to do so. The primary stage of the rocket is to move the bus into the gravity well and project it farther into the lower atmosphere. Not long after deployment the primary stage boosters have the entire assembly moving well past effective Defender velocity and by the time the slower second stage of the MIRV bus takes effect the assembly has entered low orbit, many hundreds (if not thousands) of kilometres out of Defender range.
It's like shooting a bullet from behind with a smaller, slower bullet. ______________________________________________
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.08.22 03:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alex Rendez
Assuming one by-passes the limitations of the Defender I hardware, they can be upgraded to speeds of approximately 20,000m/s. Higher is easily possible, but these numbers suffice. Keep in mind their base velocity is 9375m/s using standard protocols.
Standard Defender Is top out at 33,750KPH, outclassing your MIRVs in speed. Augmenting to 20,000m/s tops them out at 72,000KPH. That is nearly 3 times your MIRV capacity of 25,000KPH.
Utilizing a Flycatcher: Sensor upgrades will allow it to compete beyond Interceptor-class levels of target acquisition. [Test model: 1940.2mm] Its six rocket launchers can each put out a Defender I missile every 1.7 seconds. Short of Citadel-class missiles, which can not achieve the speeds you describe or anywhere close to, there is no missile in space that can survive a single Defender I attacking it.
With this in mind, the distances between your launch point (assuming it is in a standard orbit position, such as where our Wormholes open at) and target point allows ample time for Defender Is to deploy and move in flight to the target. The bulk of your MIRV bus dictates they have a degree of lag upon firing due to their mass. Defender Is, being compact, do not have that lag. They can respond immediately. The highly-sensitive sensor sweeping of the Flycatcher will notice any distinct markers left behind by your MIRV launching, furthering the Defender I rapid response.
Logically, by the time your MIRV is reaching the atmospheric entry point a Defender I, or several, will intercept and obliterate it. Due to the powerful payload of Defender Is, which will destroy sub-Citadel missiles in one volley, several Defender Is would destroy enough of the MIRV that none would survive re-entry. I would wager to say there would be no debris left behind by a single Defender I, if the MIRV itself was comparable to a light or heavy missile. Cruise would require several for debris clean up, I believe.
If the need truly arose, Defender Is could also be swapped to EMP warheads to completely disable your missiles smart systems. In effect turning them into dummy missiles. There are other methods as well, but I digress.
Idealistic end result: MIRVs intercepted, surviving debris is destroyed upon re-entry. Nothing resembling danger, be it a warhead or hulk of metal, passes through the atmosphere completely. Threat nullified.
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Or, to simplify it further: I could simply ask my Master Kuvakei to equip the drop ships with modified anti-missile weapons with the necessary tracking upgrades to simply shoot down the missiles. Shield defenses against predictable EMP attacks would also be easily configured.
Leave the dropships out of this, that is all I ask you. The civilians do not need to be brought into your fights with us, Capsuleer. ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer |
Jove X
Dragon Highlords BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 04:12:00 -
[15]
If anyone was actually serious about stopping these upliftings they'd attack communications networks (which Command and Control rely upon) rather than trying to hit thousands upon thousands of ships with EMP weapons from space, for the simple reason attacking a Communications network doesn't risk anyone on the planet's surface, has a much higher chance of success, and everyone knows that the upliftings take considerable coordination.
Trying to target landing ships individually and or collectively with EMP weapons is something akin to threading a needle from space.
No serious strategician, at least with any credibility, would try the more difficult attack before trying the simpler one. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman |
Sylorin
Caldari MMZ Laboratories LLC
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Posted - 2010.08.22 05:09:00 -
[16]
Grideris,
Your research has a few interesting points. We have been working hard on planetary defense systems as well. We're currently testing on one particular system and getting some very favorable results. Once we have completed our trials, I'll contact you and we can compare notes. Say, in another day or so?
In the meantime, I'll have to ask you and anyone serious about creating new defense systems from posting your ideas here. All it does is give the Nation time to develop a way around them.
Based on our research, we should be able to prevent any further "uplift" incidents within another month or two and achieve the complete eradication of the Nation within six months to a year.
*The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMZ Labs, LLC |
Vonqueesha Shenaynay
GhostSynd Holdings Ghost Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.08.22 07:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vonqueesha Shenaynay on 22/08/2010 08:01:31 Mr. Alexander Rykis would like you to contact him regarding Ghost Syndicate's possible participation at your earliest convenience, if you wouldn't mind please.
Your best bet is to connect to the channel "Heaven Bound" when you have some time. Thanks.
Respectfully,
Vonqueesha Shenaynay
Domination Council Secretary Office of the Domination Council Ghost Syndicate [EJECT]
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Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.22 16:09:00 -
[18]
Well Ghost Hunter. That sounds like quite a system. Good luck getting it developed and ready for combat in any reasonable time frame.
And even then, there are a few surprises already in place, and a few more on the drawing board. I would tell you, but then that would spoil the surprise...
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Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.08.22 20:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grideris Well Ghost Hunter. That sounds like quite a system. Good luck getting it developed and ready for combat in any reasonable time frame.
And even then, there are a few surprises already in place, and a few more on the drawing board. I would tell you, but then that would spoil the surprise...
You are so truly set on such a purpose then? ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer |
Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.08.23 01:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Originally by: Grideris Well Ghost Hunter. That sounds like quite a system. Good luck getting it developed and ready for combat in any reasonable time frame.
And even then, there are a few surprises already in place, and a few more on the drawing board. I would tell you, but then that would spoil the surprise...
You are so truly set on such a purpose then?
Sure am. Nothing you say will make this go away.
If you somehow do develop your counter systems, and do succeed in foiling our attack, then we have still achieved something. But in the more likely case where where everything goes off without a hitch, then we just saved several hundred civilians from being abducted.
Better to try and fail, then never have tried at all. But then again, we intend to try and succeed.
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Arvo Katsuya
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.08.23 02:48:00 -
[21]
That's not what Ghost was talking about Grideris.
It's your single-mindedness for war, and destruction. Just reading what you have to say... was I really like you just a couple months ago?
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Grideris
Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Grideris on 31/10/2010 14:32:50 Well, today was a good day.
First chance to actually use the system in combat. Seems that Sansha have been keeping away from me and attacking while I am unable to respond.
Things went flawlessly. Well, besides the second salvo that had some serious targeting problems and went way off course (and safely detonated in empty space as per the inbuilt fail-safe. I've got the fix in the works now, someone forgot to compensate for the massive amount of Gravatons being generated by the gigantic supplementary arrays I've got attached to my Scorpion) I was able to launch several salvos of MIRV EMP at dropships, and succeed in grounding a total of 19. While not many in the grand scheme of things, I'm hoping that any data we can collect from them will help in future engagements.
And for those wondering? No one was hurt, as planed. Guess this thing might actually do some good if I can get some more people involved. Who knows? We might be able to ground every single one of the bastards next time.
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StalinGrad6
Gallente Black Mesa Mavericks
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:31:00 -
[23]
Alright you Sansha morons, listen and listen well.
Regardless of whether or not you think we are promoting destruction, but you are promoting a destruction that is far worse than simply runining a ships hull.
YOU are destroying Freedom itself. By "uplifting" people, as you call it, you rob them of thier free will and thereby destroy thier right to choose.
So heres our response to youre religious nonsense:
YOU CANNOT RUN YOU CANNOT HIDE IF YOU ARE SANSHA WE WILL FIND YOU AND WE WILL KILL YOU.
You destroy the right to freedom. In response, we will take away from you the very same. For every civilian you steal i promise a thousand Sansha ships destroyed.
So i say to you my personal farewells:
Go to Hell. It was fun watching you explode.
I Am War. I Am Industry. I Am Power. |
StalinGrad6
Gallente Black Mesa Mavericks
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Posted - 2010.11.10 20:48:00 -
[24]
Attack Confirmed on Yanuel.
MIRV deployment Successful.
7 dropships Shot Down or Neutralised.
Reports indicate 118000 lives recovered from dropships.
Dropships have been handed over to science teams at the State War Academy and University Of Caille.
Results expected in 24-48 hours. ******************** A Question: If a Soldier is too scared to fight, how many people will he kill? The Answer: NONE. The Piont: Psychological Warfare. More powerful that a 3500mm cannon. |
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