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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.24 21:36:00 -
[31]
Competition is monopolistic. The advantages are very biased towards old players and existing systems. What I am trying to say is that some addition to the game mechanics would be spreading the playing field more. Say you had a dynamic cost on production slots from npc, and better opertunities in regards to covering local markets. This would mean you could enter an outlying market and produce and supply to either that local market or bring to hubs for reselling. The entry barrier is not in the mechanics but in the lack of it really..
It really boils down to another of ccps upside down world mechanics..
There is an abundance of production slots , research slots and BPOS, but there is a limitations to contracts and buyorders. This means competition on facilities are almost nonexistant and real estate value and broker fees and services are the same everywhere.. This would be a bit real life equivalent to everyone has access to cheap labor everywhere and housing and rent is not impacted by capacity needs and logistics..
Ideally ccp would fix this old horse and make the correct solution to the age old slot and office capacity demand. Hint is in the word demand...
Just saying that population clustering and markets in general would change drastically if these things where given a bit of thought..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.24 21:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Just saying that population clustering and markets in general would change drastically if these things where given a bit of thought..
I'm sure they would. That was not what you were saying when you started the thread though, and the fact that it would change T1 production does not mean it's broken now.
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Ideally ccp would fix this old horse and make the correct solution to the age old slot and office capacity demand. Hint is in the word demand...
Why are you including offices all of a sudden? Offices already react to supply and demand, I have described the exact mechanics here. And they rise more quickly than they drop. In one station, office fees rose by 800% over 60 days, and took over 150 days to drop back to where they were before the increase. In Jita, office fees go up and down in two-month cycles (I think, I need to observe a few more cycles to be sure) as demand drops when the prices get too high, and rises again as prices drop.
I agree a similar mechanic would be great for NPC production/research slots, but I don't agree that it would help more people getting into the business of production. It is another complicating factor, another thing to keep track of, and another thing where informed, obsessively anal players (such as myself) would have an advantage.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.24 23:13:00 -
[33]
If your plan is only to manufacture dont even consider mining. Because the time spent mining the minerals probably wont be worth the small margin you'd get by selling the ore you mine.
Get some capital, Setup buy orders, Find some items that have good movement and profit, Sell them on and use your profits to expand your productions.
The key steps to making isk from Manufacturing. ------------------------------
CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.24 23:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Just saying that population clustering and markets in general would change drastically if these things where given a bit of thought..
I'm sure they would. That was not what you were saying when you started the thread though, and the fact that it would change T1 production does not mean it's broken now.
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Ideally ccp would fix this old horse and make the correct solution to the age old slot and office capacity demand. Hint is in the word demand...
Why are you including offices all of a sudden? Offices already react to supply and demand, I have described the exact mechanics here. And they rise more quickly than they drop. In one station, office fees rose by 800% over 60 days, and took over 150 days to drop back to where they were before the increase. In Jita, office fees go up and down in two-month cycles (I think, I need to observe a few more cycles to be sure) as demand drops when the prices get too high, and rises again as prices drop.
I agree a similar mechanic would be great for NPC production/research slots, but I don't agree that it would help more people getting into the business of production. It is another complicating factor, another thing to keep track of, and another thing where informed, obsessively anal players (such as myself) would have an advantage.
Thanks for that link I have been wondering about those mechanics since they boosted them about what a year ago?
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:48:00 -
[35]
For all people have disagreed with Caleb he does make one good point in the OP.
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
In short take a look at all the lower tech items and give them some value without breaking the balance. The one fit rulez all situation should be reduced.
The tier system used to make sense a long time ago but not any more, it's a shame to see funky ship models like the navitas go to waste just because ccp can't be arsed rebalancing anything. Ditching the tier system so that all T1 ships were brought up to the level of the highest tier would produce far more interesting markets as well as better gameplay.
The T1 module market confuses me, I can go to Jita and buy any T1 module I want yet when I look at the costs some of these modules make no profit at all. Who's manufacturing these things and how are they making money on them? (I understand that there's money to be made making T1 but not on every item!) _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Berikath
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Competition is monopolistic.
mo+nop+o+ly /məˈnɒpəli/ Show Spelled[muh-nop-uh-lee] Show IPA ûnoun, plural -lies. 1.exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly. 2.an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government. 3.the exclusive possession or control of something. 4.something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service. 5.a company or group that has such control. 6.the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.
The important one is #6. By DEFINITION, competition is the opposite of monopolistic.
Quote: The advantages are very biased towards old players and existing systems. What I am trying to say is that some addition to the game mechanics would be spreading the playing field more. Say you had a dynamic cost on production slots from npc, and better opertunities in regards to covering local markets. This would mean you could enter an outlying market and produce and supply to either that local market or bring to hubs for reselling. The entry barrier is not in the mechanics but in the lack of it really..
It really boils down to another of ccps upside down world mechanics..
There is an abundance of production slots , research slots and BPOS, but there is a limitations to contracts and buyorders. This means competition on facilities are almost nonexistant and real estate value and broker fees and services are the same everywhere.. This would be a bit real life equivalent to everyone has access to cheap labor everywhere and housing and rent is not impacted by capacity needs and logistics..
Ideally ccp would fix this old horse and make the correct solution to the age old slot and office capacity demand. Hint is in the word demand...
Just saying that population clustering and markets in general would change drastically if these things where given a bit of thought..
Manufacturing (specifically, T1 production) is actually the place in the game where newer players are at the LEAST disadvantage, compared to older ones. Once you train up PE V, no one can produce T1 items at a lower cost than you, no matter how long they have been playing the game. They may be able to have sources for their mats which charge less, but likely not a whole lot less since minerals are so friggin easy to sell, and they will always need the same amount of those materials as you. If you're buying and researching your own BPOs, older players have an advantage because they likely can afford to have their own POS to research at- but new players can research at NPC stations or can buy pre-researched BPOs for reasonable amounts.
The only part of your suggestions I can at all get on board with is some kind of mechanism to allow easier access to station slots- maybe "priority" levels, where higher level = higher cost/hr, but gets done first? Maybe add one or two "express" slots to each station, which have a max job length- 6 hrs or something? As it is, stuff newbs would want to research would take less time, giving a higher ratio of pending vs research time. It'd be nice to have some way to get short jobs done more expensively, but more quickly.
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JASON W0RTHING
The Devolved
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Posted - 2010.08.25 04:28:00 -
[37]
Edited by: JASON W0RTHING on 25/08/2010 04:28:10 This thread has made me want to do some research and try to break into T1 production myself. Not sure if that was what the OP was intending.
Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.25 07:10:00 -
[38]
Caleb,
having played multiplayer games since the '90s, I have learned to recognize recurring players' psychological patterns.
Your last posts show you are under a certain amount of burnout and this is somehow clouding your reasonments and generally making you go on a negative attitude towards things that don't deserve particular attention or are not relevant.
Yes, we know T1 has zero entry barrier and yes we know that EvE being 7 years old won't have a virgin and explosively creative starting tier economy. Still, economy is in the hands of those with a brain, I can pinpoint and bust 20% profits on some non-obvious items, expecially when they are made off underpriced mid-range minerals.
I suggest you take a pause from EvE of about 2-3 months and then come back. It'll look in a different light.
This is meant to be a friendly advice, I have been in the same situation and could understand it. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.25 09:38:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Caleb,
having played multiplayer games since the '90s, I have learned to recognize recurring players' psychological patterns.
Your last posts show you are under a certain amount of burnout and this is somehow clouding your reasonments and generally making you go on a negative attitude towards things that don't deserve particular attention or are not relevant.
Yes, we know T1 has zero entry barrier and yes we know that EvE being 7 years old won't have a virgin and explosively creative starting tier economy. Still, economy is in the hands of those with a brain, I can pinpoint and bust 20% profits on some non-obvious items, expecially when they are made off underpriced mid-range minerals.
I suggest you take a pause from EvE of about 2-3 months and then come back. It'll look in a different light.
This is meant to be a friendly advice, I have been in the same situation and could understand it.
Good advice.. and yes I am a little burned out atm, but mostly its due to the fact that waiting 5-6 years for features, changes and rebalancings have yielded very little. The most novel thing added to the game that raised my brow was the API. That could have solved and helped so many things because its a sort of add-on feature, alas they made it all or nothing, which makes people unlikely to use it as freely as they should/otherwise would. This issue have been brought up by several players and I havent heard ccp reply they would release this soon..
Then PI was another potential game addition. Again premature ejaculation. Both these two examples are potentially awesome ideas, but they just needed 1-2 months more development and tweaking before launching. Ideally some more motivation to get players to use the test servers and some constructive commenting on added features prior to launching them..
The END LEVEL theme and the uselessness of "old tier" is seriously relevant imho. Burn out or not.. The difference between this topic and say learning skills is that economy/ecology is not something everyone cares about..(or can be bothered wrapping their heads around)
Oh and on errata.. Sorry that I over simplified using monopolistic, when ofc I should have said either pseudomonopolistic or oligopolistic. Tryid to keep it within normal language range..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.25 15:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania The END LEVEL theme and the uselessness of "old tier" is seriously relevant imho.
Perhaps you should try reading and understanding all the responses you got instead of constantly repeating the same old drivel (and prefacing it with "I meant that ..." or "I'm just saying that ..." does not make less repetitive).
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.25 15:42:00 -
[41]
Caleb Ayrania, I'm sorry man, but I have to say, if you'd qualify for it, and all this above and before was it, then you'd fail the Turing test.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.25 19:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania The END LEVEL theme and the uselessness of "old tier" is seriously relevant imho.
Perhaps you should try reading and understanding all the responses you got instead of constantly repeating the same old drivel (and prefacing it with "I meant that ..." or "I'm just saying that ..." does not make less repetitive).
I think what your asking is covered here.. Even though his article could use some more detail.. END GAME
@Akita T: >Take Turring test "You can not do that with a Turring test!" >Get out "You cannot get out that way" >Kiss "Shall we play a game?" >Global Thermonuclear War ....
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
CantStopThe Rokh
Paper Tiger Merc Group
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Posted - 2010.08.25 19:56:00 -
[43]
I'm still not sure I understand what the outcome of this is. Some people say with skills, researched bps and getting minerals from buy orders you can make a nice profit, others (read Caleb) say this is untrue. Which is right? Also I maximize my revenue if I mine the minerals myself because they are free, yea?
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.25 20:42:00 -
[44]
Caleb, I call bull**** on your claims. Each and every one of them. However, I am not going to go into the reasons why I am going to prove it via a different route.
I've recently been doing some number crunching on T1 production which arose out of my recent daliance with market trading. The numbers look good and, as you say, the barrier to entry is somewhat low. Now, I had been considering a modest entry into this area and growing my involvement through the re-investment of profit. That will not suffice to make the point loud and clear so what I am going to do is this:
I have a basic business plan already established and it projects a decent return and even a bloody good return if you were to get into it early in your characters life. I intend to extend this business plan into a proper IPO and hope to successfully launch a public company based around it. Yes, this means that I will be seeking public funds to launch, no that does not mean you couldn't do it from the ground up. The public funds will simply allow a higher entry point.
I will be sending out some eve-mails over the next few days and hope to hammer what I see in my minds eye into something that will actually work. I do not expect the help I hope to receive in this to be provided for nothing and have budgeted an amount to cover these expenses. As to when I will launch this all I can do is say that it will be soon(tm).
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.25 21:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma Caleb, I call bull**** on your claims. Each and every one of them. However, I am not going to go into the reasons why I am going to prove it via a different route.
I've recently been doing some number crunching on T1 production which arose out of my recent daliance with market trading. The numbers look good and, as you say, the barrier to entry is somewhat low. Now, I had been considering a modest entry into this area and growing my involvement through the re-investment of profit. That will not suffice to make the point loud and clear so what I am going to do is this:
I have a basic business plan already established and it projects a decent return and even a bloody good return if you were to get into it early in your characters life. I intend to extend this business plan into a proper IPO and hope to successfully launch a public company based around it. Yes, this means that I will be seeking public funds to launch, no that does not mean you couldn't do it from the ground up. The public funds will simply allow a higher entry point.
I will be sending out some eve-mails over the next few days and hope to hammer what I see in my minds eye into something that will actually work. I do not expect the help I hope to receive in this to be provided for nothing and have budgeted an amount to cover these expenses. As to when I will launch this all I can do is say that it will be soon(tm).
I think this sounds great. I am looking forward to your findings and your project.
I will give a little description of what I used to do a lot in mineral trade and see if the connection to T1 can be spotted.
When you start setting up some serious local region trading market control especially on minerals, you will easily figure out that you can to different degrees control the markets price development. This ofc depends on the population size and how many competitor traders are around. You will be able to collect stock piles and seed strategically in the region. Say you have a total value of minerals in 2-5B and local outlet seeds in 4 minor locations, usually in stations with good building activity, these sized at 500M. The price difference will make it easy for you to see your centralized prices rise and thus make you able to buy up in region competitors using the actualized sales from your central outlets. Using this method can give you control of prices to a degree where you raise prices so high on your outstanding buys and your hub sales, that as you see your over priced stacks getting sold you eventually have so high prices that you need to resupply from other tradehubs. Usually I just wait till someone drops by and dumps a big bulk stack somewhere inside my region. Then I can just start vamping of that for resupply. This is basically taking advantage of convenience/opportunity cost and is a good reflection of what would happen to regional price differences if some balance issues were changed. This example is good for minerals because they trade in high volumes and you dont sacrifice many buy orders to keep such a thing running. If we just had a market order denerf these shifting price developments from region to region would arise easier and more exploration on trade would become an integral part of the game.
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
clixoras
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Posted - 2010.08.26 09:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
I will give a little description of what I used to do a lot in mineral trade and see if the connection to T1 can be spotted.
<stuff>
With all respect Caleb, i've read this 3 times now and i don't see anything particularly special about your method. I agree that this is a valid way to get a lot of sales in a certain region, but nowadays, with all the tools available the regional price differences would be levelled within a few hours or so by imported minerals.
In other words, you can expect some full freighter(s) from Jita to close the gap fast.
Concerning T1 production being profitable, sure it is. But as entry level skill-wise it may be. It doesn't take long for the lemmings to flood the market. The only way to maximize T1 profit is to be flexible in what you're manufacturing. So you'll need a healthy well researched BPO stock. It does take a while to build up such a stock (and logistics).
Also, i think we forget we are looking at the market with a certain experience with leads us to give to much confidence in the average t1 producer. Most of them stay at the ammo/drone level and just don't bother to look further.
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Alak D'bor
Syncore
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Posted - 2010.08.26 10:27:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: cosmoray Made 100B wallet purely in T1 in 18 months (mainly in 2nd year), then made about another 100B from IER in 4Q 09, 1Q 10.
I need to double check the timing but you may have been profiting more from mineral price increases than production profit.
Even if this is true, it doesn't invalidate being in the production market. My gut feeling is that half the profits come from simply being in the game and having the logistics and information in place to jump on waves of opportunity.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.26 10:42:00 -
[48]
Somehow the whole T1 discussion reminds me of the alleged "Naked Goons" running around in Darkfall. The full loot system in Darkfall made it more worthwhile to run around naked during pvp. How is this relevant to the T1 issue..
Its about rebalance and making entry level game worthwhile. In mmos there are a clear lack of integration between entry level and end level gaming. What is needed is some way of making sure these two worlds are meeting and relating to eachother as often as possible.
In relation to items that means ideally these should be build or at least traded by the existing crowd, preferably the "middle classes" so those act like a bridge. The entry level players should be important to the existing playerbase in that they bring the most important thing in an economy "manhours"..
If you leave this integration issue alone you will push the gameplay to be all about reaching the end level, in EVE that is a 6-7 years gap, skill wise, experience wise and wealth wise. This could be a good thing, but if the trend keeps shifting to devaluating the noobs and the lower tiers well WOW shows that perfectly.. Do we want EVE to become like those games? We arent at risk yet because EVE complexity and core features are reducing that development, but being here for 7 odd years shows me the development is similar just slower at developing.
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:22:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 26/08/2010 13:24:15
Recently I noticed a T1 item with a substantially large buy order for nearly 18 times the manufacturing cost. I was also surprised since the buy order far exceeded the cost of using an un-researched BPO, and without any Production Efficiency skill.
Heck ya I made out like a bandit on that! People are definitely still buying and using T1.
Though I think this topic is probably about T1 modules, ammo, and drones, most ships sales are T1.
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clixoras
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Posted - 2010.08.26 14:27:00 -
[50]
http://eve-profits.com/list
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.08.26 16:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: clixoras
http://eve-profits.com/list
That site got me started on Industry, and I'm so glad its back up now. It even understates the profits sometimes, since if you avoid selling in Jita you can charge more for your goods.
The only problem with Industry as a starter profession is it takes up very little of your play time, so you'll want to branch into something else like mining, trading or missions to keep you busy.
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Sytoru Hiroshyma
Planetary Plunderers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.26 18:44:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania <stuff about mineral trading>
That's way to complicated with respect to what I plan. I disagree at a fundamental level when it comes to whether T1 production is possible for reasonable profit. To that end I am proposing to buy materials from the market (at least initially) and manufacture from (mostly) unresearched BPOs and then selling those items on. This will also be done from one of the 4 major hubs, just to make sure the point is well made.
The absolute basics of T1 production. The only parts that could be considered in any way "special" will be the methodologies and selection of items.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.08.26 21:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop
Originally by: cosmoray I had 5 corps supplying me full time with minerals and I still had Red Frog move me a ton of stuff all the time from jita.
"Had?" I take it then you're no longer in that line of work? I only ask because my regular buyer of passive targeters (compressed tritanium) has taken a bit of a leave, so I'm casually looking for an additional buyer.
MDD
People still use those? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
MailDeadDrop
The Collective
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Posted - 2010.08.26 21:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro People still use those (passive targeters)?
I suppose it depends upon your definitions of "people" and "use". If 1. I and my customers are people, and if 2. building, hauling around, and reprocessing them counts as "using", then yes, people still use them.
I use them because I'm only casually in the mineral compression business, and I can get tritanium cheap. Other minerals, not so much. (I can get pyerite with a little effort, so I build large emp smartbombs on occasion, too). Once you've got the ridiculous volumes of tritanium and pyerite under control, usually the remaining minerals are not such a problem to move raw.
MDD
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.08.26 22:06:00 -
[55]
I've always avoided them myself - the rate of minerals compressed per slot hour is too low to make them worthwhile on large scales. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.27 05:49:00 -
[56]
Originally by: clixoras http://eve-profits.com/list
Now if only that site would come back to life, I'd be very happy :)
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.27 07:44:00 -
[57]
I can't see where the problem is. It's like someone vouching how nice and profitable and "elite" was to produce can openers in 1950 and how the present is so bad, given 100000 Chinese slaves sell the same can openers for 1/100 of 1950's price and in thousands time the volume.
EvE IS an economy, economy evolves over time. If building a battleship was an epic achievement and now it's just insurance fraud material, that's just economy optimization over time.
What happens with new "players" in RL who want to take a shot at industry, with all those established elder players (aka big multinational companies)? They have to bust their butt and brain and find new niches or they fail and lose all.
It's just alright that mechanically purchasing 2 "obvious" BPOs in cross and producing 10000 useless widgets does not result in instant wealth and fame.
Think different.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:07:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I can't see where the problem is. It's like someone vouching how nice and profitable and "elite" was to produce can openers in 1950 and how the present is so bad, given 100000 Chinese slaves sell the same can openers for 1/100 of 1950's price and in thousands time the volume.
EvE IS an economy, economy evolves over time. If building a battleship was an epic achievement and now it's just insurance fraud material, that's just economy optimization over time.
What happens with new "players" in RL who want to take a shot at industry, with all those established elder players (aka big multinational companies)? They have to bust their butt and brain and find new niches or they fail and lose all.
It's just alright that mechanically purchasing 2 "obvious" BPOs in cross and producing 10000 useless widgets does not result in instant wealth and fame.
Think different.
No objections, you are 100% correct.. Just one little thing. Since real world has this thing called novelty and innovation. That is why people strain their brain to break through the barrier. In EVE there is no innovation outside devs drawing boards. Thus your premise breaks down a bit, since the status quo is hard to challenge. In real life existing business would love the EVE economy, since there is hardly anyone able to poke at their monopoly. My original issue was to take a look at how these things could be reflected if even remotely in EVE gamedesign..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I can't see where the problem is. It's like someone vouching how nice and profitable and "elite" was to produce can openers in 1950 and how the present is so bad, given 100000 Chinese slaves sell the same can openers for 1/100 of 1950's price and in thousands time the volume.
EvE IS an economy, economy evolves over time. If building a battleship was an epic achievement and now it's just insurance fraud material, that's just economy optimization over time.
What happens with new "players" in RL who want to take a shot at industry, with all those established elder players (aka big multinational companies)? They have to bust their butt and brain and find new niches or they fail and lose all.
It's just alright that mechanically purchasing 2 "obvious" BPOs in cross and producing 10000 useless widgets does not result in instant wealth and fame.
Think different.
No objections, you are 100% correct.. Just one little thing. Since real world has this thing called novelty and innovation. That is why people strain their brain to break through the barrier. In EVE there is no innovation outside devs drawing boards. Thus your premise breaks down a bit, since the status quo is hard to challenge. In real life existing business would love the EVE economy, since there is hardly anyone able to poke at their monopoly. My original issue was to take a look at how these things could be reflected if even remotely in EVE gamedesign..
1) EvE has innovation as well, in the form of patches. Smart capital (players) will squeeze out precious information and ride the patch advantages for substantial profit. The new niches do form out over time and unlike RL they are easy to spot. Stupid capital will trail well behind and whine how the new patch content "is useless and brings in no money". Of course, smart capital anticipated them and took the rewards and now are selling out.
2) Even if EvE had no innovation, you'd still have the situation where in RL you have new innovation but an hard cap to what you can do (ie resources are scarce, politics to deal with, compromises to deal with employees and customers...), while in EvE you have limitless (albeit asymptotically growing) capital, you can be as ruthless as you want, you can be as un-ethic as you want and you can screw up everyone you want without repercussions. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:31:00 -
[60]
did some calculations yesterday
caldari BS lol no profit, found tempest interesting, albost 10% profit IF all minerals from buy orders ... but then again i can just set up buy orders , move to jita and sell minerals for SAME profit
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