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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2010.08.24 18:36:00 -
[1]
Tyrannis 1.0.4 brought us Stackless Python 2.7. porkbelly gives us the lowdown in his newest dev blog.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.08.24 18:44:00 -
[2]
So, Python. Okay. Knew that.
Anything else to add? -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:06:00 -
[3]
Having trouble keeping up with all new blogs! \o/ loving it! Keep up the great work.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Dalmont Delantee
Gallente Fidelis Discordia
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:08:00 -
[4]
He's a coder, they don't speak human much :P
But, what benefits to reducing lag, increasing features etc does the new upgrade give?
Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons |
SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:14:00 -
[5]
Let us know when this client patch comes, so we can get a 30 day skill running. :P __________________________________________________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
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CCP Atlas
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Let us know when this client patch comes, so we can get a 30 day skill running. :P
This was released on August 18th.
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Yusitpeo Meoir
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:30:00 -
[7]
Quote: Visual Basic 6 is the last of a line. There are no plans to continue with a Visual Basic 7 version. All Visual Basic development is now focused on the .NET version of Visual Basic. But we won't be going there any time soon. Moving from version 6 to .NET is a much bigger leap: There are widespread incompatibilities on the API level and there are substantial language changes too. And at this time there appears to be no immediate benefit to us in switching.
I concur, .NET sucks a lot.
Oh, wait, that's not what we're talking about.
You do know that staying in the past will... leave you in the past?
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Let us know when this client patch comes, so we can get a 30 day skill running. :P
This was released on August 18th.
*dramatic music*
(oh and good job)
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Ancy Denaries
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Let us know when this client patch comes, so we can get a 30 day skill running. :P
This was released on August 18th.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is defined as "getting owned". ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog
Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Victor Valka
Caldari Endoxa Corporation
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Posted - 2010.08.24 19:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ix Forres Edited by: Ix Forres on 24/08/2010 19:11:33 So, Python. Okay. Knew that.
Anything else to add?
I like dev blogs, but only when they have content.
I'd like to echo this sentiment -- This blog has very little added value.
Only thing to take away from it, is that CCP won't be switching to Python 3.x any time SoonÖ.
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2010.08.24 20:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Ix Forres Edited by: Ix Forres on 24/08/2010 19:11:33 So, Python. Okay. Knew that.
Anything else to add?
I like dev blogs, but only when they have content.
I'd like to echo this sentiment -- This blog has very little added value.
Only thing to take away from it, is that CCP won't be switching to Python 3.x any time SoonÖ.
To be clearer. This is an improvement to our engineering infrastructure, it does have performance improvements we can capitalize on and it is already deployed without the world ending. Literally.
It also references an obscure Icelandic band. I don't know what that was about but porkbelly does stuff like that.
Regarding 3.X, going through that amount of work to upgrade without it giving us considerable performance increases (like when you'd compare to new initiatives like Iron Python and such) or more direct benefits (can become sentient), it doesn't look like it's worth it.
Hope this helps.
Executive Producer EVE Online
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Thumbs McFriday
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Posted - 2010.08.24 20:04:00 -
[12]
Wow! The true cause of all the lag has finally been revealed. All that folksy slow paced Randver has given birth to the unstoppable lag monster. Quick some one give me an address and I'll send CCP all my roommate's Dragon Force CD's. I'll never have to hear Through Fire and Flames again and Eve will be saved. Everyone wins!
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.24 20:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 24/08/2010 20:09:46 You mentioned that you're moving to Python 2.7 because of new library features... which ones interest you? Do you guys keep abreast of the bug fixes/performance improvements in the 2.7 line? Subscribe to python dev? Consider trying to steal Guido from Google?
It's actually funny, but before I started playing Eve I was a heavy contributor to the Python core project.
-Liang
Ed: Also, the pwn up above is pretty hilarious. Nicely done! -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2010.08.24 20:16:00 -
[14]
Edited by: CCP Oveur on 24/08/2010 20:16:13 Edited by: CCP Oveur on 24/08/2010 20:15:59
Originally by: Thumbs McFriday Wow! The true cause of all the lag has finally been revealed. All that folksy slow paced Randver has given birth to the unstoppable lag monster. Quick some one give me an address and I'll send CCP all my roommate's Dragon Force CD's. I'll never have to hear Through Fire and Flames again and Eve will be saved. Everyone wins!
I would have expected something more akin to gabber or jumpstyle if we just wanted to bring up the pace, although I feel dubstep is probably closer to the consistent pace we want to be at without feeling tortured and distorted. I also happen to like dubstep.
Executive Producer EVE Online
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.08.24 21:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I would have expected something more akin to gabber or jumpstyle if we just wanted to bring up the pace, although I feel dubstep is probably closer to the consistent pace we want to be at without feeling tortured and distorted. I also happen to like dubstep.
Any chance we could get a decent bounty hunting system developed to the dulcit tones of some drillcore?
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.08.24 22:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Oveur I also happen to like dubstep.
Ye gods, it's worse than we thought!
Seriously though, always good to hear sensible tech moves. Out of curiosity, is any manpower being spent on a JIT compiler for Stackless? I've heard talk thrown around here and there. -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Shamblingform
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.24 22:35:00 -
[17]
Easily first page again...
German Giggles R
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Jacob Stirling
Gallente Eve Dragons Chaos Hegemony
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Posted - 2010.08.24 22:54:00 -
[18]
Newbie trainee at current day programming has request for clarification:
"There is a lot of C code that needs recompiling."
C or C++?
I ask because from what I've read, C++ is the industry standard and that's what I'm focusing on. C#, as I understand it, is better suited for porting to consoles. But C++ is the computer standard, though, of course, others are used. But I would have thought standard C would be considered ancient by now.
Thought I might look at Python as well.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.08.24 23:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liang Nuren It's actually funny, but before I started playing Eve I was a heavy contributor to the Python core project.
So...you're to blame for the bugs ? Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Kaksakamasami
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Posted - 2010.08.24 23:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jacob Stirling Newbie trainee at current day programming has request for clarification:
"There is a lot of C code that needs recompiling."
C or C++?
I ask because from what I've read, C++ is the industry standard and that's what I'm focusing on. C#, as I understand it, is better suited for porting to consoles. But C++ is the computer standard, though, of course, others are used. But I would have thought standard C would be considered ancient by now.
Thought I might look at Python as well.
C is essentially subset of C++. It's really just C++ without all the cool and complicated stuff. You really can't learn C++ without accidentally learning C.
Oh, and C is used in ****load of places where you need raw performance without all this fancy stuff C++ brings.
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cBOLTSON
Reaction Theory Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Oveur Edited by: CCP Oveur on 24/08/2010 20:16:13 Edited by: CCP Oveur on 24/08/2010 20:15:59
Originally by: Thumbs McFriday Wow! The true cause of all the lag has finally been revealed. All that folksy slow paced Randver has given birth to the unstoppable lag monster. Quick some one give me an address and I'll send CCP all my roommate's Dragon Force CD's. I'll never have to hear Through Fire and Flames again and Eve will be saved. Everyone wins!
I would have expected something more akin to gabber or jumpstyle if we just wanted to bring up the pace, although I feel dubstep is probably closer to the consistent pace we want to be at without feeling tortured and distorted. I also happen to like dubstep.
CCP Dude likes Dubstep? Good man! Finally some REAL music ;-) Nothing like a bit of "WUBBB WUBBBB WUUUUBBBB" whislt pvping (-_o)
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Thumbs McFriday
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I would have expected something more akin to gabber or jumpstyle if we just wanted to bring up the pace, although I feel dubstep is probably closer to the consistent pace we want to be at without feeling tortured and distorted. I also happen to like dubstep.
Thanks Oveur, I spent all afternoon listening to all kinds of new cool music. It appears you got the tunes way under control and things are coming along nicely with lag fixes. I suppose, you won't be needing my roommate's CD collection? What a shame. At least now I can drown him out with this newly discovered speedcore gabber.
BTW, these dev blog posts are great.
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Aranial
Gallente Empyrean Warriors Lux Caelestia
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:46:00 -
[23]
ok lol Brain overload with trying to keep up with these.
Keep up the excellent communication though :D.
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.08.25 00:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 25/08/2010 01:00:32
Originally by: Kaksakamasami
Originally by: Jacob Stirling Newbie trainee at current day programming has request for clarification:
"There is a lot of C code that needs recompiling."
C or C++?
I ask because from what I've read, C++ is the industry standard and that's what I'm focusing on. C#, as I understand it, is better suited for porting to consoles. But C++ is the computer standard, though, of course, others are used. But I would have thought standard C would be considered ancient by now.
Thought I might look at Python as well.
C is essentially subset of C++. It's really just C++ without all the cool and complicated stuff. You really can't learn C++ without accidentally learning C.
Oh, and C is used in ****load of places where you need raw performance without all this fancy stuff C++ brings.
C is a subset of C++ only in the literal sense. Ninety-nine percent of learning a programming language is learning the style paradigm that programs in the given language are written. C++ is object oriented, and C is not, so nontrivial programs are structured very differently in each language.
tl;dr: Learn both languages. Also take a look at some Functional and Declarative programs. Expand the mind.
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Andrevv
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.25 04:38:00 -
[25]
Do you ever wish you could go back to 2000 you and smack them over the head, "BEWARE THE GIL! BEWARE!!"
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Dennison Spade
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Posted - 2010.08.25 05:21:00 -
[26]
I'm waiting for a blog post.. "WE FIXED THE LAG, NO MORE PROBLEMS"...
these posts are are written in geekese, it's good if you speak developer geek, but if you don't it's like reading wallpaper.. I've never understood the fascination with "programming" languages.. I can't wait to the day when all this crap is transparent to us and we just get good functionality. Who cares what you write you code in, all I care about is that it works...
one day.
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Peter Tjordenskiold
The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.25 05:41:00 -
[27]
Thanks for this blog!
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.08.25 06:53:00 -
[28]
I already posted this question in the previous devblog comments but this place seems to be more suited for it since it is about the subject in whole;
As to the limits this GIL thingy apparantly impose; How far are you tied down by the design fundementals of Python/stackless or not in regards to multiple cores? Are you pretty much tied to the definitions it provides or can you rewrite the core code parts of Python to stomp away the stupid things it makes you do? As to avoiding the whole spaghetti workarounds and such... Remember; I'm not afraid to implement the mental image of a certain exec prod. wearing a certain diabolical fabric used to conceal (or show in this case) the appropriate body parts. I might even step it up a notch or 2..
Part of the question was already answered with the bit as to having to port some in-house developped adjustments of the code i guess, but i'm still wondering about the hard limits this apparantly "ancient" way of coding processes apply. Are there any similar languages on the horizon that allow you to do porting with minimal adjustments to the code already there but still give you massive improvements as to the current and future way of coding? Or is it building on top of Python 2.7 yourself from here on in since 3.0 doesn't give you enough benefits? ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Paknac Queltel
Coffee Muggers HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.25 07:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jacob Stirling Newbie trainee at current day programming has request for clarification:
"There is a lot of C code that needs recompiling."
C or C++?
I ask because from what I've read, C++ is the industry standard and that's what I'm focusing on. C#, as I understand it, is better suited for porting to consoles. But C++ is the computer standard, though, of course, others are used. But I would have thought standard C would be considered ancient by now.
Thought I might look at Python as well.
I prefer to think of C++ as C with a side order of pain.
As for C#, it's a very decent high-level language. Somewhat annoying if you need to interface with unmanaged code though. Sooner or later you'll run into the pain that is using pointers in C#.
I'm still looking for a language that combines the best of C and C# without adding the worst of C++...
I would go with the suggestion elsewhere in this thread to learn both C and C++ and their ways of doing things, and go further and suggest you do the same for any language that you think you may like. The more you know, the less you're restricted by a single toolset and way of thinking.
And yes, look at Python. You won't regret it. - Paknac Queltel
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.08.25 07:34:00 -
[30]
Regarding the Python GIL issue. It seems to me that you cold run small scale tests (10-100 users/bots on singularity) with logging similar to what David Beazley presented in his video to see if you get excessive thrashing and/or if multi-core processors are an issue. It might at least point you in the right direction. Sometimes hitting things with a small hammer and analyzing them under a microscope is preferable to beating them to a mangled mess with a sledgehammer.
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