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Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:06:00 -
[1]
Couldn't they just buff T2 hybrid ammo? Buff void so it did about 15-20 percent more damage and buff null so it had about 15-20 percent more range? A lot of the stuff I read against a blaster buff is that blasters shouldn't get the best of both worlds (high damage and good range/tracking) If CCP just buffed t2 ammo it would force the pilot to pick one or the other and this would maintain the balance.
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Razor Blue
VR Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:18:00 -
[2]
Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.08.26 13:22:00 -
[3]
+1. Hybrids have too many disadvantages over other gun types as it is. Tech 2 ammo nerfs you to a ridiculous degree.
For rails, make javelin able to actually hit something. Increase tracking quite a bit, and increase range significantly. Increase damage of spike a little.
For Blasters, extend the range and tracking of null, for Void increase tracking a lot.
And make my drones capable of following orders while your at it...
Because Gallante are the Washington Generals of EVE. |
Xre Vega
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Posted - 2010.08.26 14:00:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Xre Vega on 26/08/2010 14:00:31 Yep. Switching from Caldari Navy Antimatter S to Null on my Daredevil (2x Light Neutron Blaster II) gets me a whopping 4 DPS increased at the cost of about 2.5km to my total range. If my optimal is 1.1km then I want to be doing a lot more damage.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.26 15:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Razor Blue Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
Gleam, Conflagration, Hail and Quake would like a word...
This situation is not unique to Hybrids, Pulse lasers use Navy Multifrequency rather than Conflagration, Hail has seen some application is still not preferred over Faction shortrange ammunitions... --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Wardeneo
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Posted - 2010.08.26 17:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Razor Blue Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
+1
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Razor Blue Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
Gleam, Conflagration, Hail and Quake would like a word...
This situation is not unique to Hybrids, Pulse lasers use Navy Multifrequency rather than Conflagration, Hail has seen some application is still not preferred over Faction shortrange ammunitions...
this is also true but lazors dont need boosting and blasters do, yes hail, conflag quae and gleam are ussless but blasters as a whole are useless so boosting arties n lazors even more justs adss to the gall problem, what you have to realise is there has to be a compramise somewhere n fixing blasters n ignoring arties n lazors would be that bad in all fairness.....
-wardeneo- -Wardeneo- |
Sigras
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Posted - 2010.08.26 18:23:00 -
[7]
I also agree that T2 short range ammo is broken, but even if you made void ammo do +300% damage, blaster boats would still not be able to get in range to apply their damage
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Razor Blue
VR Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.26 19:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Razor Blue Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
Gleam, Conflagration, Hail and Quake would like a word...
This situation is not unique to Hybrids, Pulse lasers use Navy Multifrequency rather than Conflagration, Hail has seen some application is still not preferred over Faction shortrange ammunitions...
All T2 short range ammo needs some love. Its the T1 hybrid ammo which needs to be looked at. Projectiles has their dmg types, lasers have instant reload. Hybrids load either Null or CNAM and pray that the range fits.
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Altaica Amur
The Elliance
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Posted - 2010.08.26 19:31:00 -
[9]
Also keep in mind that fixing t2 hybrid ammo would still leave the Rokh in the unenviable position of having to use spike to get enough damage out in spite of it significantly overshooting the desired range. If anything I'd say that removing t2 ammo across the board would come closer to resolving the balance issues then individually boosting certain t2 ammo types. Without t2 ammo railboats could trade range for damage realistically, blasterboats wouldn't be more limited then other weapons for their ammo choices.
However since that isn't particularly realistic I think a significant boost to t1 hybrid ammo as well as a fixing of some of the issues with t2 hybrid ammo might do the trick.
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.27 02:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Razor Blue Yep, thats what i think too. The only thing broken with hybrids is the ammo. There is really no point using any other ammo than faction antimatter or Null/Spike
Gleam, Conflagration, Hail and Quake would like a word...
This situation is not unique to Hybrids, Pulse lasers use Navy Multifrequency rather than Conflagration, Hail has seen some application is still not preferred over Faction shortrange ammunitions...
Im making a new thread about an idea about ammo`s
Pulses have no reason to complain as they have God/Chuck Norris/Scorch Ammo which really is borderlin game breaking.
I do think all T2 ammo`s should be more Niche specific...In fact they should have 6 T2 Ammo types IMO 2 for each Super High DMG low tracking/Super High Tracking low DMG in both Long and close ranges.
Example
Pulse would be Conflag Short Heavy poor tracking and super High face melting DPS to reward group support, and Conflag Short Light which has amazing tracking but poor DPS. and it goes med long.
Or I was thiking about ammo`s that load faster, some with bad tracking but a Diff DMG type for Lasers and Hybridz but have it reload alot longer etc.
They need to get creative, I thik they could make the Ammo`s so so much better, Cap usage bonus is a good one but should be one of Many for instance have Arty that has 30% more Alpha but empties huge amounts of Cap as well as make it 50% slower the ship like tremor but with more +`s and -`s.
-------------------------------------------------- "If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed" -Me
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Elldranga
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Posted - 2010.08.27 05:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sigras I also agree that T2 short range ammo is broken, but even if you made void ammo do +300% damage, blaster boats would still not be able to get in range to apply their damage
ugggghhh this again. Sooo very much pvp happens at short range, that this is just a ridiculous opinion. Does all pvp happen at short range in todays eve? No. Does that mean that short range pvp is non-existent? No. Personally I'm glad that the mid-game has opened up again. It was closed for way too long.
As for your specific point... WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU SMOKING? 300% dps increase and you don't think people would fly them because they'd still be useless? I'd really like to find out where you're getting your product because it's obviously some pretty good stuff. Talk about a hypothetical situation where EVERYONE would be flying blasters again, and you still call them useless.
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Sabine Demsky
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.08.27 06:04:00 -
[12]
hmm, well it seems that ppl are really complaining about this whole hybrids thing. I really dont think anything will happen. Torps also have very bad range, so i dont see how hybrids will be affected. The best i can see for gallente is a slight agilitly boost for certain ships and maybe a lesser penalty on armor rigs? Even then the rigs thing would make the armor cane awesome and the trip rep myrm really awesome, as well as all other armor ships lol <3 armor ruptures. Also people need to think of less of the whole, "mega chasing someone" and more of... well idk, something else. remember we have fleets so we have frigs for tackle =P
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.08.27 07:27:00 -
[13]
The Caldari need a whole lot more than just Hybrids. Let's not forget rockets and missiles.
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.08.27 07:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sabine Demsky Torps also have very bad range, so I don't see how hybrids will be affected.
Really I get 96km with Javelins on stealth bomber and 30km on a regular BS which pretty good for something designed as being 'short range' and damage doesn't even drop all that much for along range ammo.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Arkanor
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Razor Blue
All T2 short range ammo needs some love. Its the T1 hybrid ammo which needs to be looked at. Projectiles has their dmg types, lasers have instant reload. Hybrids load either Null or CNAM and pray that the range fits.
It's the man in the middle problem. Example
If you want high cap usage and no ammo - Lasers Ammo and no cap usage - Projectiles Both - Hybrids (Where is the compensatory advantage here?)
You want switchable damage? Projectiles and missiles only.
You want DPS? Pulse lasers again, you want alpha-strike capability? Artillery all the way. Realistically, blaster boats put out marginally better DPS than pulse lasers, at far less range (and that's not counting ammo usage and reloading).
Hybrid weapons suffer from being the compromise of existing weapons systems, where those systems excel at something in particular, hybrids are left wanting. It makes sense that hybrid guns should have a distinct DPS advantage over projectiles, given that they require both ammo AND cap to fire, and no ability to alter damage types.
It's a tough act to balance, add too much range (to blasters) and you obsolete autocannons, add DPS and it doesn't solve the problem of not being able to get into range. Hybrids need their own distinct "flavor" at the moment and they're not going to get that by being a bastardization of two other weapon systems. I would think with the high-EHP setups of today a 25-40% increase in blaster DPS wouldn't be entirely unwarranted, which might be realized through fixed Void ammo.
Railguns are almost tougher, but their niche is much more viable. Naval combat has traditionally been about range (although battleships never had the luxury of warping to enemy wrecks), and a range buff (combined with extending the targeting cap to 300-350km) might solve the problem of them being a fairly poor long range choice compared to higher damage beams or higher alpha artillery. At the very least, it might make them a decent midrange choice with their high damage ammo, were it ever fixed. However, giving someone the potential to shoot that range carries a risk of imbalance all on its own.
tl;dr - Hybrid guns have no character of their own, and this hurts them greatly. Also, buff all high damage T2 ammo so it's actually usable.
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:25:00 -
[16]
Well if we're about buffing the ammo we could start by dropping the dual penalties from hybrid ammo and the guy who invented the speed penalty on close range hybrid T2 ammo should be shot at day break.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.08.27 10:16:00 -
[17]
So we shouldn't buff hybrids but we should buff the hybrid exclusive ammo that no one but hybrids can use and that hybrids have to use. Doesn't that seem like almost the exact same thing to anyone else?
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.08.27 10:27:00 -
[18]
what.
hybrid has no characteristic?
Short range meltfacing damage of the vagabond isnt a characteristic?
Cruiser-like tracking of the railguns of the Rokh isnt a characteristic?
Man. Lets buff hybrids, because bad blaster boats are bad at blasters, and bad hybrid boats are bad with hybrids.
Awesome argument.
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Kidain
Gallente Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.08.27 10:38:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kidain on 27/08/2010 10:38:32
Originally by: Moose Burger what.
hybrid has no characteristic?
Short range meltfacing damage of the vagabond isnt a characteristic?
Cruiser-like tracking of the railguns of the Rokh isnt a characteristic?
Man. Lets buff hybrids, because bad blaster boats are bad at blasters, and bad hybrid boats are bad with hybrids.
Awesome argument.
What are you weebling about?
What the hell has the Vagabond got to do with this? Try getting a Deimos near one and then come back to me about "Meltfacing" damage. It's is indeed awesome damage that you cannot apply in anyway shape or form when you need to be up the persons ars*hH0le first.
It is an awesome argument that currently neither of the types of a whole weapon system in the game actually work in anyway shape or form regardless of the bonus of the ship.
By the way I am talking about Gallente Blaster and Railboats (are there any?) NOT any with drone abilities. --------------------------------------
In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams |
Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.08.27 11:05:00 -
[20]
shyt , confused with the other thread about projs'
i mean the vindicator.
My point is simple. You campare ships which are good at what they do. Megathron is good at being beautiful, awesome, and long. While Rokh has an insane tank and triple the tracking with their faction ammo.
Why compare the worst railboat with the best amarr sniping boat to prove a point?
Thats like saying autocannons suk just because a punisher can take down an AC probe any day.
Same goes to hybrids. Just because in 1v1 situations a hybrid gunboat cant get close to another ship, doesnt mean that its bad. It only means you have to overwhelm them and have more ships then they can scram/web you.
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.27 11:24:00 -
[21]
guy above is right
Also scorch is not as god sent since it can do damage only vs ultra weak em resist nothing else really so its good just not game breaking ... and conflagulation is useful in some situations since it does most thermal damage of any cristal but not that much it still criples but i think it is fine balanced. Gleam is ultra terible however and aurora is not that good. Eternal Will. |
Captain Lupus
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Posted - 2010.08.27 12:05:00 -
[22]
Yeah! Buff Hybrid Ammo! Make Hybrids devestating Short Range weapons and iŠll bet 1.000.000.000 ISK all Cane/Sleipnir-Pilots cry me a big fat river!
Next UP on your Cross-Skill PWN/U/ALL Plan:
TRAIN GALLENTE!
Would be soooo sweet
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