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what does it mean ''unprobable setup''?

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SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.27 11:41:00 - [1] Edited by: SOLAR stone on 27/08/2010 11:46:24 Does it mean that with such setup it's impossible to scan down this ship or that means that it is impossible to lock this ship?
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.27 11:45:00 - [2] where does it say [or even what] that ? --
Natalie Caladan Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.27 11:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 27/08/2010 11:51:21 Originally by: SOLAR stone Does it mean that with such setup it's impossible to scan down this ship or that means that it is impossible to lock this ship? It's impossible to scan down this ship. If it is impossible to lock it would be almost invulnerable!
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.27 11:55:00 - [4] That means - the stronger the sensor of the ship the harder to scan it down? If it is so, how stronger should sensor be to make a ship unprobable? Is it starting from 100?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2010 12:15:47 In order to probe down a ship you need a 100% result on the scan. For a 100% hit you need a high enough combined probe strength (depends on skills, ship, rigs, multiple implants, launcher type, probe type, probe range set) and low enough deviation (one skill and one implant) to overcome the target's "stealth" (so to speak). There is an absolute maximum you can reach when you put all those together, which would usually be total overkill for any regular ship. A potential target only has two things to worry about, namely signature radius (smaller is stealthier) and sensor strength (higher is stealthier). Given the fact that there really is a maximum a scanner's gear can manage to go up to, all you need to do in order to NOT be "probeable" (in other words, the most anybody could get is a 99% scan hit on you) is to be in a small enough signature ship with a large enough sensor strength for that to happen. As for how high that sensor strength should be to ensure absolute impossibility of location even against a maximized prober ? Not _exactly_ sure (but somebody might know and tell you), and it obviously depends on your subsystem configuration and fit (signature radius, fleet bonuses, sig implants), but expect some number closer to 200 sensor strength rather than to 100 (or even closer to 300 without fleet/implant sig reduction). P.S. Of course, 100 might work just as well against semi-casual probers. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:19:00 - [6] Bear in mind that drones, as well as the site you're at(If you are at a site anyway) can be probed down. It's best to keep eyes up for probes, even if you are in an 'unprobable' ship. ---
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:20:00 - [7] Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2010 12:24:42 Unless you're in a Tengu, which typically is fit with missiles only, and running a non-site "thing". _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:22:00 - [8] Thank you for your detailed explanations. Also strong sensor means that it would be very difficult to jamming such ship?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:28:00 - [9] Originally by: SOLAR stone Also strong sensor means that it would be very difficult to jamming such ship? Yes. But bear in mind that you'd need quite a bit of fiddling and compromises to push sensor strength THAT high, so don't expect to end up with a PvP-ready ship. You'd actually be needing to be extra-careful even just with the NPCs. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:34:00 - [10] Edited by: SOLAR stone on 27/08/2010 12:34:28 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: SOLAR stone Also strong sensor means that it would be very difficult to jamming such ship? You'd actually be needing to be extra-careful even just with the NPCs. As far as i know NPC don't jam. Am i wrong?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:36:00 - [11] Originally by: SOLAR stone As far as i know NPC don't jam. Am i wrong? Guristas jam. However, I wasn't talking about jamming, but ship destruction. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:48:00 - [12] Thank you for your explanations
Limdood	Posted - 2010.08.27 14:14:00 - [13] Edited by: Limdood on 27/08/2010 14:15:03 your sensor strength has to be (i think) 96% of your signature radius. I know most people just go for "equal," because its easier to remember.....ie. if your sig radius is 150, your sensor strength needs to be 150 to be unscannable. as others have said, it takes quite a few modules to pull this off, and your skills need to be pretty solid, OR you need to be in an overkill ship to make it "safe." I know that T3 ships (with the electronic subsystem that boosts sensor strength) only need 3 T2 modules to pull off unscannable, which isn't quite as bad as the 4-5 you'll need on other ships. Additionally, certain classes of ships have such huge sig radii and/or such crap sensor strength thet they can't, or it isn't worth it to make them unscannable. finally, What does unscannable mean? well, they can still find you on Dscan (you won't be warpable, but if you're sitting at a planet, belt, moon, or star, they can probably narrow it down and find you). You will still show up on their scan probles, they just will never be able to get your signal to 100%, and thus, will never be able to warp to you. Lastly, your ship being unscannable really only helps in ONE situation i can think of (others might have more ideas) - missions. anomolies, sites, and plexes can all be scanned down individually, and in that case, someone can find your ship just by finding the site you were at. A mission, on the other hand, only shows up for you, and cannot be scanned down, making it the perfect activity for an unscannable ship. edit also be careful of some shield mods, shield rigs, and some T2 ammo, as those items boost your signature radius, making you scannable again.
Josorna	Posted - 2010.08.27 14:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Limdood Lastly, your ship being unscannable really only helps in ONE situation i can think of (others might have more ideas) - missions. anomolies, sites, and plexes can all be scanned down individually, and in that case, someone can find your ship just by finding the site you were at. A mission, on the other hand, only shows up for you, and cannot be scanned down, making it the perfect activity for an unscannable ship. Missions are unscannable, but there's also one other type that can't be scanned, escalations. Sure, the initial anomaly / plex you might get escalation from can be scanned while doing it, but after it sends you elsewhere, nobody will find you while doing the site.
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.08.27 17:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Limdood Lastly, your ship being unscannable really only helps in ONE situation i can think of (others might have more ideas) - missions. anomolies, sites, and plexes can all be scanned down individually, and in that case, someone can find your ship just by finding the site you were at. A mission, on the other hand, only shows up for you, and cannot be scanned down, making it the perfect activity for an unscannable ship. One other idea that immediately springs to my mind are 100% gank-fit ships sitting 150-200k off gates, picking off small / slow targets. If anything heads your way, you warp off. You need to be unprobable so that enemies can't warp a gang on top of you. Similarly, if you have reinforcements waiting just off-grid. Also, it used to be possible to make carriers and motherships unprobable, you could assign fighters / bombers to other people and sit in a safespot in relative safety. I don't think it's possible anymore. Last thing that I don't think was mentioned yet is Remote ECCM - these provide larger bonuses than the ones you fit yourself. A common setup is a logistic ship (naturally low signature) fit with ECCM making itself unprobable, and using several Remote ECCM projectors to make a small gang unprobable too. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real!
Contralto GCHQ	Posted - 2010.08.27 18:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2010 12:24:42 Unless you're in a Tengu, which typically is fit with missiles only, and running a non-site "thing". T2 heavy missiles will dramatically increase the ships sig radius. For example on my particular Hml Tengu with 6 T2 launchers, Sig radius rises from 165 m to 226 m This makes unprobeability (is that a word?) very hard to achieve without Halo's or Talon's, the latter being more effective. I use Halo's because they serve dual purpose, Sig reduction as well as damage reduction from BC and BS sized weapons. Above Tengu with halo's has a sig of 179 m with Scourge Furies vs 131 m with standard Hm's Add in a Command pilot in a mind linked Loki and the sig drops to 129 m / 94 m respectively To complete the unprobeable formula, 2 Phased Muon Eccm Casters raise the sensor strength to 157. Local Eccm can be used but I prefer to use the mids for "other" tasks. I am messing with 2 Basilisks spider tanking with remote Eccm, Shield and cap transfer to 2 Tengu's, all unprobeable. The Basi's also look after each others tank, cap and Eccm needs. Here is the Tengu setup for use with the Basilisks, T2 mid slot mods used for illustration. [Tengu, Lvl 5/Wh] Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Heavy Missile) Auto Targeting System II Photon Scattering Field II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II 4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Effective HP: 32,078 Tank Ability: 1,903.09 DPS Omni with 4 Shield transports, 2 from each Basi' 71 Km range This can be increased to well over 5k dps if all the Basi's total of 10 shield transfers are targeted at one Tengu. Shield Resists - EM: 75.05%, Ex: 73.75%, Ki: 84.25%, Th: 89.50% Capacitor: Stable at 100% fed by one Energy transfer from one of the Basi's, 76km range Volley Damage: 2,876.16 DPS: 724.43 Range 113km Targeting 128km with 8 targets via the AT. Velocity 730 ms with ab and loki's command bonus. The command bonus in these cases is not required to achieve the goal but help a lot to reduce incoming damage especially vs Sleepers or lvl v missions. If you do use the leadership bonus the Halo's are not required. Just mix and match to make that 1.08 ratio.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.08.27 19:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Contralto T2 heavy missiles will dramatically increase the ships sig radius. Use faction _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Contralto GCHQ	Posted - 2010.08.27 19:42:00 - [18] Drops the Dps by 75 and I can never get my head around the cost of faction missiles, I use faction large hybrid ammo all the time but it is considerably cheaper. Rof of the above setup is 3.72 so that is a truck load of missiles, especially vs RR'ing Sleepers Having said that I always keep a few faction missiles in reserve for their great exp radius they are definitely better than precisions vs frigs etc.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.28 06:40:00 - [19] [Tengu, Unprobeable (lowsec)] Warded Gravimetric Backup Cluster I Warded Gravimetric Backup Cluster I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst [Tengu, Unprobeable (nullsec)] Warded Gravimetric Backup Cluster I Warded Gravimetric Backup Cluster I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.28 11:45:00 - [20] Edited by: SOLAR stone on 28/08/2010 11:48:50 Why don't you use Heavy Assault Missile Launchers instead of Heavy Missile Launchers? Which shield mods make signature bigger while active?
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.08.28 12:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Taross on 28/08/2010 12:50:26 Originally by: SOLAR stone Edited by: SOLAR stone on 28/08/2010 11:48:50 Why don't you use Heavy Assault Missile Launchers instead of Heavy Missile Launchers? Which shield mods make signature bigger while active? I'm guessing he uses HMLs instead of HAMs because he likes some range. The only things that make your signature bigger are shield extenders and shield rigs, but, well, they ALWAYS do since they're not activated mods. Oh, and an active microwarpdrive will, ofcourse, totally destroy your attempts at being unprobable. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.28 13:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Taross Edited by: Taross on 28/08/2010 12:50:26 Originally by: SOLAR stone Edited by: SOLAR stone on 28/08/2010 11:48:50 Why don't you use Heavy Assault Missile Launchers instead of Heavy Missile Launchers? Which shield mods make signature bigger while active? Oh, and an active microwarpdrive will, ofcourse, totally destroy your attempts at being unprobable. How about Afterburners?
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.08.28 13:42:00 - [23] Afterburner doesn't make a difference to your sig radius. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.29 02:35:00 - [24] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 29/08/2010 02:42:34 Originally by: Taross Originally by: SOLAR stone Why don't you use Heavy Assault Missile Launchers instead of Heavy Missile Launchers? I'm guessing he uses HMLs instead of HAMs because he likes some range. Yup. In level 4 missions, things tend to be far away, far outside the range of HAM. You either spend more time doing less damage with HML, or more time getting into range with HAM. In the end, the target is destroyed in about the same amount of time... unless there are evil webbers around. Pick whichever you prefer though (and a lot of ammo, as the Tengu HAM RoF is around 2 sec). To fit HAM you may need a power grid implant.
SOLAR stone Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.08.29 06:13:00 - [25] Thank you for your reply

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