Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 17:13:00 -
[1]
Introduction
A couple of days ago, I finally bought myself a freighter. I'd flown one on SiSi a few years ago and remembered it being slow, but I'd forgotten just exactly how slow it was! It's a Charon, so it's got the highest mass of the lot, thus the slowest align time, which I guess doesn't help. I then tried turning autopilot on, but after returning 5 minutes later to find myself only 1 and half systems further than I was when I left, I realised I was going to have a problem.
Therefore, I gave myself a mini project to create a spreadsheet that would estimate the time it would take me to autopilot from System A to System B in a freighter. With it, I could set an alarm to go off how ever many minutes / hours after setting off to let me know that I should have arrived at my destination. Furthermore, I wanted it to take implants into account so I could check which mixture of implants would reduce the journey time by the most.
After about two hours, the first version was complete and I set off to test it, leaving the log window open so I could track how long it took to traverse each system and compare it to my spreadsheet's estimates. The results were promising, with the estimate being 2m37s off for what was a 1h17m44s, 16 jump journey. That's about 6% off or 10s per jump.
Since then, I've spent some time cleaning up the layout, running more tests and making changes to the calculations. The most recent journey was significantly shorter at only 7 jumps, but the results were better than I would have ever expected, with the journey taking 34m24s, one second longer than the spreadsheet estimated. Likely a fluke, but it got me hard nonetheless!
Download
It can be downloaded from eve-files using the following link:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/SazukaKirr/ap_freighter_v0.4.xlsx.zip
It probably requires Excel to open. I'm not sure what version you'll need, but it was saved as a .xlsx from Microsoft Excel 2008 for Mac.
Instructions
The sheet should open on the 'summary' tab. If it doesn't, switch to it. Select your ship you're using and ether your skills and any implants you have in the fields to the right.
Then head over to the Navigation section on evemaps.dotlan.net, enter the journey you wish to make and submit it. Double check it with the route shown in-game as they don't always match 100%.
Select the table containing the route, including any irrelevant columns (kills, jumps, etc.) and the header row. Then paste this in the sheet, ensuring the # goes in Cell B22.
If your new journey is shorter than the previous one entered, you may have to manually delete part of the previous one. The spreadsheet will let you know if there's a problem with the route you've entered.
As soon as you've entered the route, the 'Summary' section should update, listing your ship details, the total distance (in AU) of the journey and the time it should take to complete it.
|
Trandaka Kirr
Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 17:14:00 -
[2]
Limitations & Calculations
The sheet only allows you to select Freighters, Jump Freighters and the Orca. I may add Deep Space Transports, but I don't want to add too many ships as it'll end up too cluttered and complex. Also, consider this: while a Freighter and Jump Freighter cannot be rigged, all other ships can and rig and module selections will impact significantly on align times and the sub-warp speeds.
The sheet supports journeys up to 200 systems, or 199 jumps, in length.
My laptop is quite powerful so I'm unsure of how well it will run on slower computers.
The sheet splits up each jump into 7 stages during the calculation process:
1. Aligning to out gate 2. Accelerating to max warp speed 3. Warping at max warp speed 4. Decelerating on approach to out gate 5. Accelerating to max-sub warp speed to out gate 6. Travelling at max sub-warp speed to out gate 7. Jump delay
(1) is calculated using the acceleration time formula found on the EVE Online Wiki, combined with the information you provided about your ship type, skills and implants.
(2) was estimated at 7.5 seconds after inspecting FRAPS footage of several jumps, frame-by-frame. Travel distance during said acceleration was estimated, empirically, at about 0.3 AU.
(3) is calculated by dividing the distance between the in-gate and out-gate by the max warp speed, after subtracting the estimated travel time during acceleration and deceleration to and from max warp speed.
(4) was estimated at 20 seconds and 0.3 AU, using the same method of data collection as in (2).
(5) is calculated in the same way as (1.), though it takes the time to accelerate from 30% of max velocity to 90% of max velocity. During testing, I found that my Charon would exit warp at about 30% of max velocity and the formula on the EVE Online Wiki gets grumpy when you get too close to 100% velocity. The distance travelled during this acceleration is calculated using that parallelogram integration for noobs thing.
(6) is calculated by dividing the remaining distance to the gate by your ship's max velocity.
(7) is estimated as 16s (though this can be changed on the 'summary' page) and accounts for delay between your client telling your ship to jump and your ship actually jumping, between your ship jumping and the system loading, between the system loading and your ship beginning to align to the out gate and between your ship exiting warp at the out gate and your ship beginning to approach the gate. For me, it has varied from 13 seconds to 22 seconds, with the average on most journeys being in the 15-16s region.
The obvious inaccuracies occur at stages (2), (4) and (7), though inaccuracies can also occur at stages (1), (5) and (6) due to bumping from other ships on gates. During testing, I've seen myself delayed by up to 40 seconds during the sub-warp approach to the out-gate. Sadly, I can't think of any ways to compensate for this in the spreadsheet itself.
The align time in (1) is also several seconds shorter than what EFT estimates it as, but frame-by-frame inspection of FRAPS footage has shown my value to be closer to the actual value than EFTs. I'm not entirely sure how EFT calculates the align time à
Contact Details
I think that's just about it. This wasn't intend to be something I released to the public until I told a few friends about it, some of whom were rather interested in seeing how it works and said they'd quite like to use it. There probably won't be many updates and I'm unlikely to add much more to it, unless it's of a real benefit to me!
That said, if you have any ideas for improvements, let me know and I'll consider them. On the other hand, if you encounter any issues or find any bugs, post them here or mail me at [email protected] and I'll try to fix them.
-Saz
|
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 18:09:00 -
[3]
Some funky images ...
When I open up the document, it looks like this:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/SazukaKirr/Microsoft_ExcelScreenSnapz001.jpg
If it looks similar to that, you're off to a good start.
When you're copying the route from evemaps.dotlan.net, you should be copying the following:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1008/SafariScreenSnapz001.jpg
And pasting it should look like the following:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1008/Microsoft_ExcelScreenSnapz002.jpg
|
Shinde Kudasai
Mercurial Freight
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:41:00 -
[4]
Neat tool :)
AFKing too slow for my tastes, gate-to-gate all the way! But nice work, definitely.
Faster? Cheaper? UNPOSSIBLE!
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 22:58:00 -
[5]
There's already a similar tool on the Red Frog site. Just enter a start and end point, then click 'show details'.
--- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 23:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sazuka Kirr on 29/08/2010 23:51:12
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro There's already a similar tool on the Red Frog site. Just enter a start and end point, then click 'show details'.
Though their site offers a rough estimate of the journey time, it's based on an average freighter, average skills and no implants. Mine allows pilots to estimate the time with greater accuracy and the ability to see the effect that buying, say, a 200m sub-warp speed implant will have over a 200m warp speed implant.
Taking a trip from Jita to Dodixie as an example, their site estimates that it will take around 1h5m26s. My spreadsheet estimates that it will take anywhere between 1h28m06s and 55m35s depending on which freighter you use and what skills you have, without any implants.
It also calculates the times for Jump Freighters, which have greater agility than regular freighters, which would reduce align time by up to 40%. JF pilots are also likely to have implants (at least, I know quite a few that do), which could reduce the journey time even further. A Nomad w/ LG Nomad implants and a warp speed implant could do a run from Jita to Dodixie in as low as 48m33s, for example. If you want to splash out on HG Snakes, you could get it down to 47m30s!
No disrespect to Red Frog Investments, though; Sazuka used to be in their alliance (was the first one I ever joined), Trandaka spent some time in their corp and I've been a long time user of their services, so they're great people! And yes, their tool is similar and useful, but only as far as the journey time estimate goes. My sheet allows a pilot to analyse and optimise his or her afk hauling to make it as time efficient as possible.
That said, how long my sheet is better than theirs for I do not know! I popped into their channel earlier today to let them know about this sheet and one of their pilots said that he'd be passing it onto the tech guy that designed that tool on their site :P
|
Vadania Amastacia
Caldari Exploit Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 03:54:00 -
[7]
lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
The most efficient method consists of the following: 1x Manually piloted freighter 1x Rapier alt, fitted as follows:
[Rapier, FreighterWebber] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier True Sansha Stasis Webifier Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive 60km web range.
When your freighter jumps thru the gate, hit warp to next gate, wait 5 seconds or so, double-overheat-web the freighter, and watch it instawarp to the next gate. Guaranteed 80 seconds per system, not factoring in freighter travel time across the system.
|
Jurinak
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 08:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
|
Xavier Veridis
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 12:29:00 -
[9]
Any could give us an example of the routes you take and times of day as well?
Just so I can test it out under roughly the same conditions.
|
Gaius Clabbacus
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 13:04:00 -
[10]
Pasting the route didnt work for me as it included the region names as well. Interesting to see how the low top speed on an Orca means its travel time is comparable to a freighter (although I do remember some very long warps in Minnie space where the Orca will win). Overdrives on an empty Orca would also improve the performance.
|
|
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 18:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gaius Clabbacus Pasting the route didnt work for me as it included the region names as well. Interesting to see how the low top speed on an Orca means its travel time is comparable to a freighter (although I do remember some very long warps in Minnie space where the Orca will win). Overdrives on an empty Orca would also improve the performance.
164 AU warps across Teonusude ... I felt like hanging myself.
As for pasting the route, the region names, jumps, kills, etc. are all in the spreadsheet but the columns are hidden since ... well ... that info is kinda irrelevant when it comes to calculating warp times. I guess there may be a relationship between the number of jumps the system has had in the last 3 hours and how likely you are to get bumped on a gate, but ... well ... meh.
Just select the entire table and copy it:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1008/SafariScreenSnapz001.jpg:]Step 1[/url]
and then paste it into the sheet:
Step 2
|
Shinde Kudasai
Mercurial Freight
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 23:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
We've always thought it was daft as well, but there's a lot of daft people out there.
Freight - the final frontier!
|
Gabriel Rosencrantz
Red Frog Investments
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 00:46:00 -
[13]
Awesome work! Very precise. Keep up the good work!
Red Frog Freight: Hisec Courier Service |
Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 01:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jurinak
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
Seriously, you can still achieve the same result in one click - it's called 'self destruct'.
Auto-piloting a freighter is not a matter of 'if' you'll get suicide ganked, more a question of 'when'.
Don't do it! You're better off getting a friend in the same player corp (or an alt on a 2nd account, in the same corp) to fly a rapier/hyena or any other ship with a decent webbing capability to fly alongside you. They can scout your route for you and when you come out of the gate jump, simply web you to get you to insta warp to the next gate.
With the web method, the actual warping still takes time, but your align time is reduced to a couple of seconds for each time you warp (down from what 45s or something, I can't remember as it's so long since I solo flew a Freighter).
______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University |
Gaius Clabbacus
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 09:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Jurinak
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
Seriously, you can still achieve the same result in one click - it's called 'self destruct'.
Auto-piloting a freighter is not a matter of 'if' you'll get suicide ganked, more a question of 'when'.
Not everybody is hauling billions in T2 materials. When your main is flashy red or has a lot of outstanding kill rights it is convenient to use a freighter to move new PvP ships to the front lines / jump freighter staging system.
|
Mad Constructor
Mad Industrys
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 21:31:00 -
[16]
Does it also have a place where you enter the value of your cargo, and it calculates your chances of being suicide poped before reaching your destination? It could take into account the security of systems you pass though, and how often they are camped...
Or you could just not autopilot around in one of the biggest targets that can enter high sec.
|
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 23:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sazuka Kirr on 31/08/2010 23:54:44
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia The most efficient method consists of the following: 1x Manually piloted freighter 1x Rapier alt, fitted as follows:
<snip>
Debatable. Most efficient method if you're looking at journey time but very inefficient if you're looking at amount of effort required and amount of time spent at your PC (or, in my case, Mac). What's more efficient:
1. Spending 30 minutes managing two accounts as you warp your freighter across EVE.
2. Spending 2 minutes setting up your autopilot and then going AFK to do something else (mow the lawn, make dinner, work on an essay for uni, etc.) and then returning an hour and a half or two hours later to find yourself sat at your destination.
If you have nothing else to do, you may as well go with option 1. If you have better things to do? Option 2.
Originally by: Xavier Veridis Any could give us an example of the routes you take and times of day as well?
Just so I can sit on your route and suicide gank your ship.
FYP.
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Jurinak
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
Seriously, you can still achieve the same result in one click - it's called 'self destruct'.
Auto-piloting a freighter is not a matter of 'if' you'll get suicide ganked, more a question of 'when'.
Contrary to popular belief, not everyone hauls billions worth of gear in freighters on autopilot. My most expensive haul so far was 300m. If I did end up hauling expensive gear (e.g 1bn+), I'd probably split it up into multiple piles and contract it to RF Freight.
But nobody is going to suicide gank an afk freighter over a few hundred mil worth of bulky POS fuel, a handful of T1 hulls or a pile of minerals. If they do, they're the idiots! Not the freighter pilot :P
How about after you've completed hauling some expensive gear and you're returning to a trade hub with an empty freighter? May as well use autopilot then.
|
Trinkets friend
|
Posted - 2010.09.01 03:03:00 -
[18]
A calculator for freighter journey time?
Its easy. You need a program which has a dialog box with a box to put your starting and destination ystems in, and a button with "Calculate!"written on it. You click the button, and it gives you ans answer: "A long time you dirty carebear!"
|
PandaStratton
|
Posted - 2010.09.01 07:07:00 -
[19]
this has fail written all over it.... just make sure when ur lil alarm goes off and your in your pod, dont whine to CCP about how you are an absolute fail...
|
Mal Lokrano
Gallente The Executives IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.09.01 08:13:00 -
[20]
This is why whenever my alt autopilots I keep the payloads cheap, and do it while I am at class or something. figure if you keep the payload cheap it makes you less interesting of a target. Personally although its a nice idea, I really don't see the need for a time calculator, all you really need is an excel sheet that after you enter the numbers it barks back, "its gonna be awhile, take that shower you have been needing for a few weeks." ____________________________________________ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two.
Don't bug me ingame about diplomats, I don't know wh |
|
Rasz Lin
Caldari Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.09.01 17:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jurinak
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
ah, and those people that leave computer on and go to sleep are worried about the difference between 1h5min and 48min .....
|
GavinCapacitor
|
Posted - 2010.09.03 18:17:00 -
[22]
Nice work, but why limit its usefulness to only freighters?
If you had a place for people to manually enter the few values that affect AP time (mass, agility, max speed, warp speed - I think thats it?) you could use it for any combination of ship/pilot/implants/rigs/mods/etc.
|
Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 13:23:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sazuka Kirr on 06/09/2010 13:24:47
Found a bug in v0.4 ... times weren't being added correctly for routes over ~20 jumps. v0.5:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/SazukaKirr/ap_freighter_v0.5.xlsx.zip
Link updated in first post.
|
Jurinak
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 15:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Jurinak
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia lol. Autopiloting a freighter? You have got to be kidding me.
there are people who do not want to clicking like crazy with 2 chars for a thing you can do with one click and then set your autoshutdown for you pc....
Seriously, you can still achieve the same result in one click - it's called 'self destruct'. Auto-piloting a freighter is not a matter of 'if' you'll get suicide ganked, more a question of 'when'.
if suized or not, is a matter of how much value your cargo have not if autopiloted or not. With your method you can only avoid noobsuizid gang but not people who know how.
But feel free thinking that you run your freigher save and the autopilot freigherpilot are idiots.
|
Corporate Thief
Caldari Code Triage
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 18:54:00 -
[25]
I don't see what the issue is, personally; I AP Freighters all the time, have yet to be ganked, and find the OP's spreadsheet a welcome addition to my files. If you don't like it, don't download it and move on ---
Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic.
|
ECOdude
|
Posted - 2010.09.13 23:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Corporate Thief have yet to be ganked
of course, after reading that, everyone will be out to get you! run forest run!
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |