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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
JackStraw56
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Posted - 2011.01.06 03:33:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Drakarin The wrecks only exit because of me, and the loot does belong to me, so does the salvage. If you want to say that the salvage isn't mine, you also have to say the loot isn't. You can't have it split inbetween, as it all comes from the same wreckage that only exists because my missiles created it.
Just because you say something doesn't make it true. The game is the way it is, if you want it changed you can request it, but deluding yourself into thinking that the salvage belongs to you is...not a great strategy and unlikely to produce results.
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Nanferr
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Posted - 2011.01.06 05:06:00 -
[182]
More isk/hour is always good. Missions like recon and cargo delivery deserves to have mwd enabled for the sake of the kronos
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.06 09:19:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2011 09:21:05
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Venkul Mul [ Seeing how mission target thieving will become easier, we will get a longer aggro time or killrights on mission thieves?
I don't mean the loot/salvage thief, but the guy that will steal the object required to complete the mission and then sometime ransom it, or that do that simply for the giggles.
If you give better tools to them you should give other players better tools against them.
because they totally didn't discuss it here
and lol ninja salvagers
Learn to read. Bolded for you.
And no, CCP didn't discussed the change here. They announced it.
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Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:12:00 -
[184]
epic ccp post.
ab? whats an ab? _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
C0mbat W0mbat
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Posted - 2011.01.06 10:34:00 -
[185]
Easy solution vs ninjas: Fly unscannable ships in high sec too I fly tengu in lowsec and it performs quite well. MWD would make me scannable, so no advantage for me there. But I can't see the problem with ninjas... I don't get any in my missions. No pirates either :) Only valid complaints I have seen so far: 1. If u are scannable, ppl might zoom in and steal the mission item, MWD will make this easier 2. If you are scannable in low sec, pirates scan you down and can use MWD in your mission to get on top of you faster regarding pt2. They can't use MWD while cloaked, so if you watch local, scanner and overview you will see them coming anyway. If you are not aligned and still close to the warpin, its your fault.
I also do low sec missions in vaga with corp mates for a change. being able to use MWD would make this ALOT faster to get into AC range. So as a mission runner, I like this change. More variety, with a little inconvenience for the ppl in loot thieve hubs.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.06 20:46:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2011 09:21:05
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Venkul Mul [ Seeing how mission target thieving will become easier, we will get a longer aggro time or killrights on mission thieves?
I don't mean the loot/salvage thief, but the guy that will steal the object required to complete the mission and then sometime ransom it, or that do that simply for the giggles.
If you give better tools to them you should give other players better tools against them.
because they totally didn't discuss it here
and lol ninja salvagers
Learn to read. Bolded for you.
And no, CCP didn't discussed the change here. They announced it.
this thread is 7 pages, and I assure you there was discussion
and you bolded a part I don't really care about, and in fact have done on a few occasions, trust me, it was plenty easy with an afterburner.
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Danilo Latas
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Posted - 2011.01.06 21:15:00 -
[187]
mission running is pretty boring per se, whether you use an MWD or an AB.
The whole mission running system shoud realign and move more towards PVP. The use of an MWD would be a good step in this direction. It would solve a lot of problems mission runners have e.g. running missions in low sec or 0.0. But maybe we should take one step at a time and start with the MWD and look where this leads us.
Just my opinion don't crucify me for it.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.06 21:31:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/01/2011 21:33:14
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
this thread is 7 pages, and I assure you there was discussion
and you bolded a part I don't really care about, and in fact have done on a few occasions, trust me, it was plenty easy with an afterburner.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Good timing guys. Let's talk MWDs and missions for a moment.
....
We want to change it so that all missions allow MWDs, as stated in the past. Just a week or so ago, we made the changes to allow that - meaning that in the future, you could fit an MWD and have it work in (almost) every mission site. Changing it in the system was actually quite trivial. It took one lone, industrious level designer half a day to go through the thousands of sites toggling a checkbox from "on" to "off" (or perhaps it was the other way around...but that's irrelevant).
Post 13, page 1, announcement.
After this we are discussing what is already a fait accomplit.
So in this thread there is no discussing with CCP about the pros and cons of the change, it has already been decided this will be implemented.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.06 21:41:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Venkul Mul So in this thread there is no discussing with CCP about the pros and cons of the change, it has already been decided this will be implemented.
Read the rest of the post you quoted
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Having said all that, we still have to appreciate that making a global change to a highly-utilized system like missions is not without risk, and we are not going to claim that we've figured out all the potential downfalls. That's where you guys - our best resource - come in. What negative effects from this change do you see that we might have missed?
Now please quit trolling, Venkul Mul.
MWD used to work in missions but they were taken out due to "ludicrous speed", but the nanonerf happened, now it's time to put MWD back into missions.
Will the mission ninjas make use of MWD in missions? Yes they will. There are easy ways to work around this: first, decline missions which require picking up cargo. Second, in mission space you can sit right next to the place where the cargo is dropped and pick it up first. Third, make sure you have alternate stocks of the appropriate cargo.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Zarbane
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Posted - 2011.01.06 23:37:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Nanferr More isk/hour is always good. Missions like recon and cargo delivery deserves to have mwd enabled for the sake of the kronos
Don't do those missions in your Kronos besides recon 1 of 3. Do them in a fast ship.
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2011.01.07 08:37:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Venkul Mul So in this thread there is no discussing with CCP about the pros and cons of the change, it has already been decided this will be implemented.
I'm not sure why you think that means the discussion has ended, but let me reassure everyone that it has not. We're still watching this thread and we're going to be monitoring the effects of the change and related feedback once it goes live as well.
Feedback threads and discussions are followed regardless of the topic being about an upcoming change, a potential change, or a change that's been on the server since May 2003!
Any discussion goes on so long as there are people providing good points, and by virtue of that, good reasons for us to listen in. Simple as that. --
Originally by: CCP Explorer What could possibly go (more) wrong?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.07 08:38:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Venkul Mul So in this thread there is no discussing with CCP about the pros and cons of the change, it has already been decided this will be implemented.
Read the rest of the post you quoted
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Having said all that, we still have to appreciate that making a global change to a highly-utilized system like missions is not without risk, and we are not going to claim that we've figured out all the potential downfalls. That's where you guys - our best resource - come in. What negative effects from this change do you see that we might have missed?
Now please quit trolling, Venkul Mul.
MWD used to work in missions but they were taken out due to "ludicrous speed", but the nanonerf happened, now it's time to put MWD back into missions.
Will the mission ninjas make use of MWD in missions? Yes they will. There are easy ways to work around this: first, decline missions which require picking up cargo. Second, in mission space you can sit right next to the place where the cargo is dropped and pick it up first. Third, make sure you have alternate stocks of the appropriate cargo.
CCP Dropbear: the change has been decided "Having said all that, we still have to appreciate that making a global change to a highly-utilized system like missions is not without risk, and we are not going to claim that we've figured out all the potential downfalls. That's where you guys - our best resource - come in. What negative effects from this change do you see that we might have missed?"
That translate to we will implement this change. If you scream enough we will see if you must change something as an aftereffect. So no, we aren't discussing if the change should be implemented and if the it will be a good or negative thing. That was done on the Scrapheap forum.
We are simply tiring to get minimize the negative aftereffects.
"first, decline missions which require picking up cargo." And use only the Caldari agents as other factions don't have the nice high sec hubs with several high quality combat agents.
"Second, in mission space you can sit right next to the place where the cargo is dropped and pick it up first." So long as it is not a ship faster than the one you are using, it is not something that will entangle your like the buildings in the Damsel missions and so on. Still your better suggestion.
"Third, make sure you have alternate stocks of the appropriate cargo." Mission target items are unique most of the time. Even a similar item isn't the same item. You can't deliver a "sealed cargo" from mission A to complete mission B. Some mission have "generic" stuff but they are more an exception than the rule.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.07 08:59:00 -
[193]
Same thing for the mission hubs.
There is too much people in the mission hubs -> most mission hubs are in Caldari space -> add more high quality Caldari agents
Adding more high quality agents from the other races would have moved at least some people outside Caldari space.
New agents blog
7 Caldari agent 2 Gallente 1 Minmatar with quality 15 or more.
Someone really thought it would reduce congestion in Caldari space?
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.07 11:09:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
1) I think that doing the preliminary discussion if it was a positive or negative change and if it something wanted or not by the EVE player community on a different forum from the EVE official forum was a bad move.
CCP has never done any discussion on any third party forum.
Stop pretending they did.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.07 11:58:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/01/2011 12:02:43
Originally by: Batolemaeus Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/01/2011 11:40:23
Originally by: Venkul Mul
1) I think that doing the preliminary discussion if it was a positive or negative change and if it something wanted or not by the EVE player community on a different forum from the EVE official forum was a bad move.
CCP has never done any discussion on this change on any third party forum.
Stop pretending they did.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
We got so much good feedback both here and on a related Scrapheap Challenge thread, that a blog seemed unecessary. Keep in mind, we'll be monitoring the effects of this change and if need be, changing things accordingly. We, and a bunch of the community, are pretty confident this will be a positive thing in the long term.
You mean that the Scraphead thread was another "after the fact" thread?
Then I stay corrected, it wasn't discussed at all with the playerbase "before the fact". Probably I inferred to much from that phrase.
As strange at it may seem, I feel that not discussing it anywhere before changing things is better than discussing it outside of "proper" channels.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.07 13:59:00 -
[196]
SHC has been a hive for bouncing ideas around and theorycrafting for quite a long time now, and it's no secret that devs do, in fact, read other forums.
They never participate however, but instead lurk around.
The mwd in deadspace topic has been around since i started playing. There is no "after the fact", this has been going on for ages. Some 0.0 plexes had been changed a long time ago, probably well over 1 1/2 years before this thread's existence.
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McGrits
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Posted - 2011.01.07 14:08:00 -
[197]
As a lowsec mission runner, I do not worry about so much about nija salvaging but more an outright gank by a pirate or small gang of pirates.
As it is current, I feel relatively safe in a mission using an AB and the deadspace signature effects. It is later after the mission when I use a MWD destroyer to salvage the field without the deadspace that risk gets extra exciting. Will being able to use the salvager in an active deadspace keep the risk even or close to the same?
I have not seen any discussion of multi room deadspace either. Say I am the 5th room of Angel extravaganza. The MWD will help kill the spider drones but I wouldn't have a clue as to what is happening in the earlier rooms full of wrecks and loot. Yes I can check the 360 scanner relentlessly, but that stinks of OCD behavior.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.08 18:55:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/01/2011 19:02:38
Originally by: McGrits
As it is current, I feel relatively safe in a mission using an AB and the deadspace signature effects. It is later after the mission when I use a MWD destroyer to salvage the field without the deadspace that risk gets extra exciting. Will being able to use the salvager in an active deadspace keep the risk even or close to the same?
The deadspace signature dampening effect was removed some expansion ago during one of the exploration revamp. I think Dominon or maybe even Apcrypha.
Use of MDW in deadspace as been brought up several times in the past in the EVE forum, but never in a long thread discussing pro and con. And using other forums as a way to see what a specific slice of the EVE playerbase want is a thing, using them as an example of what all the players want is a bad idea.
AFAIK Scrapheap has a specific audience that don't reflect the EVE gamers demographic.
It is like asking opinions about Obama politics to the people at a Republicans supporters meeting and then saying "this is what the US people want".
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:31:00 -
[199]
Ooooh this will be awesome. Don't let salty water ruin your keyboard, prepare tissue beforehand. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:34:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
It is like asking opinions about Obama politics to the people at a Republicans supporters meeting and then saying "this is what the US people want".
No, that's just a stupid analogy.
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gpfwestie
Gallente Westie Engineering
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:57:00 -
[201]
I was under the impression from the posts that MWD's have been changed to work in deadspace.
I fitted up a Blasterthron with a MWD to try on the Level 4 Mission 'Recon' (2/3) and it gave the familiar 'you can't activate that because of local phenomenen' message again.
Could someone confirm that this change has not gone live yet ? or is it just a bug in Recon 2/3.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.01.09 22:35:00 -
[202]
Also, don't forget to add MWD to each rat in a mission. :) uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.09 22:47:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/01/2011 22:54:42
Originally by: Venkul Mul We are simply tiring to get minimize the negative aftereffects.
No, they're basically asking us if re-enabling MWDs in missions will be game-breaking. It's not, so they'll go ahead with the planned change.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Mara Rinn first, decline missions which require picking up cargo.
And use only the Caldari agents as other factions don't have the nice high sec hubs with several high quality combat agents.
That's a separate issue, discussion of which I'm happy to partake in, in a separate thread.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Mara Rinn Second, in mission space you can sit right next to the place where the cargo is dropped and pick it up first.
So long as it is not a ship faster than the one you are using, it is not something that will entangle your like the buildings in the Damsel missions and so on. Still your better suggestion.
How do you get entangled in buildings in Damsel? If the ship is faster than yours, bring a friend flying a tackle boat.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Mara Rinn Third, make sure you have alternate stocks of the appropriate cargo.
Mission target items are unique most of the time. Even a similar item isn't the same item. You can't deliver a "sealed cargo" from mission A to complete mission B. Some mission have "generic" stuff but they are more an exception than the rule.
That's news to me. I've delivered mission-specific items to other missions by accident. In the meantime, for missions where you can't procure the item from the market (eg: 10 units of Quafe Ultra), either decline the mission or make sure you get to the cargo first.
Originally by: Venkul Mul 1) I think that doing the preliminary discussion if it was a positive or negative change and if it something wanted or not by the EVE player community on a different forum from the EVE official forum was a bad move.
I agree with you on that point.
Originally by: Venkul Mul 2) as stated above the discussion now is at most about aftereffects, not the basic choice.
Moot point. They at least warned us that it will happen :)
Quote: Look the hauler missions changes: people do a lot of Gallente hauling missions->they should be too good->change the missions.
Hauler missions needed to be changed, regardless of their reasoning for the change. The fact that CCP didn't bother to separate out the fact that all those hauler missions were being run for the R&D corps bothers me a little. But still, the fact remains that people were able to run level 4 courier missions in a rookie ship. The balance of missions needs to be addressed too. i.e.: I can run level 3 combat missions for Carthum Conglomerate in a hisec mission hub since they have Admin agents, but Duvolle hisec agents are Production which involves mostly courier and mining missions.
Core Complexion has hisec combat agents, Boundless Creation is almost entirely lowsec. Thukker Mix agents are (understandably) mostly lowsec/nullsec, but their better quality agents are also combat agents.
Originally by: Venkul Mul From my point of view it seem it wasn't done. A problem was "identified" a priori and then the solution for that perceived problems was implemented, without checking if the origin of the problem was something different.
Yup, it's a classic case of selection bias.
My concerns with the MWD boost are mainly that it will kill off lowsec missioning, or else it will turn lowsec missioning into a monoculture of unprobable Tengu fits, leading to a nerf to that ship's sensor strength, thus killing of lowsec for good.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.09 22:53:00 -
[204]
Originally by: gpfwestie I was under the impression from the posts that MWD's have been changed to work in deadspace.
Could someone confirm that this change has not gone live yet ?
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Just received confirmation that it will be coming with the full release.
From the EVE News, the final release of Incursion isn't due until late January 2011.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.10 02:53:00 -
[205]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Any discussion goes on so long as there are people providing good points, and by virtue of that, good reasons for us to listen in. Simple as that.
Dropbear, can you confirm that there will be no place in Eve that a MWD doesn't work? I dislike this from a PVP perspective, because it removes the ability to find places to shape the battlefield to a specific play style. The change is supposed to be about diversity... and removing "deadspace" from the game isn't adding diversity.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.10 07:34:00 -
[206]
Originally by: gpfwestie Edited by: gpfwestie on 09/01/2011 21:40:48 I was under the impression from the posts that MWD's have been changed to work in deadspace.
I fitted up a Blasterthron with a MWD to try on the Level 4 Mission 'Recon' (2/3) and it gave the familiar 'you can't activate that because of local phenomenen' message again.
Could someone confirm that this change has not gone live yet ?
Edit - I tried Smuggler Interception which also didn't work. Cheers for nothing CCP.
I have put the useless blaster ship back in the hanger where it belongs.
Most of the level 4 I have tested allow use of MDW:
Recon was one of those not upgraded: Quote: The slightly trickier part, and the reason the idea has taken a while to get traction, comes in investigating the potential impact of this change, and answering questions like...does it break any missions and make them unacceptably easy? Recon is a great example of a mission that would require a little extra work. Most likely, we would just redesign that particular mission site.
From the CCP posts the change isn't universal but most deadspace missions will get it.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.01.30 04:17:00 -
[207]
I honestly don't know what all the drama is about. Looting is mostly useless anyway, as blitzing missions is far more profitable. If you want to loot, get an alt in a Noctis to do it for you, or run missions in gangs. It's an MMO for a reason.
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Asp IV
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Posted - 2011.01.30 11:46:00 -
[208]
Nice, more fitting options.
Npc rats as sleeper/sansha with improved AI and tactics is a good thing.
CCP you should also implement a random chance that npcs try to podkill you if you donŠt warp out fast enough. Try to get the all pve content to emulate (or get closer to pvp encounters), but also make npc more vulnerable to pvp tactics and "pvp modules"
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XkalistiX
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:50:00 -
[209]
Venkul Mul you can try and make it sound like CCP went elsewhere and discussed this, when in fact this has been discussed many times on several forums, some of which are also read by devs. are you suggesting they shouldnt be allowed to read anything but eve-O? or that good ideas/discussions from any other source should be ignored. and further, by monitoring all (or more than just eve-O) dont you think CCP can gain a more balanced view of EVEs player base? seems like CCP just doing their homework with enthusiasm. also to the peeps moaning that missions are their income and their specialty, GET A CLUE, think about it for a moment if you spend the time you spend 1. moaning 2. salvaging, on doing what you're supposed to be specialized in (clue here>MISSIONING ie shooting stuff getting bounty+LP) you'd earn more... much more.
cant wait for the change, so many more lol ships will be usable blaster astarte/vindi etc <3
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Chuc Morris
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Posted - 2011.02.01 01:48:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Chuc Morris on 01/02/2011 01:54:35
Originally by: CCP Dropbear We're still watching this thread and we're going to be monitoring the effects of the change and related feedback once it goes live as well.
0 changes for blaster platforms already suffering from their anemic capacitor/pg/dps, with MWD it's worst and add signature drawback, so, rails and AB.
0 changes for my caldari toon, missiles are performant enough to hit anything at any distance in range, AB or without AB is ok, MWD it's not necessary.
Salvaging, over 60km with Ore industrial 4 you can pull wrecks while you are mooving in to the nex gate, AB is fine but MWD it's fun, is there any positive change? -not in my opinion
Mabe for pvp'rs in low sec scanning down pve'rs in sanctums, anomalies etc. In this case yeah after combat probes giving them MWD to get faster on top of them it's a good choice.
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