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Borza Slavak
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.02.18 13:36:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Borza Slavak on 18/02/2011 13:37:05 How wonderful.
For capsuleers. And really, them and their crews are the only thing pilot RoE affects. For some of us however the well-being of this privileged class is of trivial importance. Frankly your attempts to create a 'civilized' utopia of an unimaginably wealthy elite while trillions of people suffer needlessly planet-side are sickening. Such self-satisfied complacency is not for us...
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.02.18 19:54:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Codo Yagari It doesnt have to be more complicated than this. How complicated is it to want peace and harmony? Hypothetically, if all were practising NRDS and observing a decent philosophy of showing respect, it would bring about a fairly peaceful environment. If everyone was practising NBSI, I think that it's obvious peace would be much harder to come by.
I have to agree entirely with comrade Slavak monsieur Yagari. NRDS in and of itself is not a guarentee of civility, honesty, justice or civilization. The proof of this was in the horrorshow the Amarrian Nationalist CVA made of Providence region dominated by regressive imperialism its puppets tugging their forelocks to the theocratic hierarchy foisted in as holders and government. It doesn't take much for an evil man to set a decent one -10 KOS under NRDS. And moving freely amongst horrors as a capsuleer in orbit while the torture farms and punishment yards do their bloody business on the worlds below is nothing to sing songs of freedom about.
NRDS can be used for appalling repression.
I will agree that NRDS is a better starting point than NBSI if one seeks to build a genuinely courageous and honest interstellar society but NRDS itself as a simple ROE should never be used to excuse political regression and expansion of Amarrian Imperial dogma.
Where Star Fraction and the Ushra'khan differed on NRDS/NBSI in the former Providence wars was simply a difference in tactics. We tried to peal away genuine neutrals from the CVA influence by allowing them to BE neutral if they chose and to this end saw no profit in forcing them to be enemies. Whereas the Ushra'khan saw ALL who trafficked with CVA as tainted and responsible for the suffering of their kinsmen on the worlds below and considered scourging space of profit would lead to the liberation.
But both allies considered the NRDS of the CVA utterly corrupt and heinous in its applications.
You would be wise to understand this Codo Yagari - the mechanism of setting a man red before you shoot him doesn't neccessarily mean you are a righteous and civilized man - it can also mean you are a bloody-handed villain who understands bureacracy and the value of appearances.
Join the Revolution!
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.21 12:23:00 -
[153]
I see your point, really.
NRDS can be abused, if not steming from a true desire for peaceful cooperation. However, as far as I am concerned NBSI is ALWAYS abuse. That should put some persepctive on which RoE is the more sane.
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Major JSilva
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.21 12:31:00 -
[154]
I have to say the whole point of you "universal" NRDS is very flawed and sadly will never work. Having operated in deep 0.0 and low-sec one needs to adopt a so called NBSI policy.
NBSI in 0.0 is standard because the alliances who enforce it own the territory which is their home. Free from CONCORD enforcement thus creating capsuleer nation-states in a certain regard.
I'm not familar with you personal operating history so i wouldn't know where you came up with this idea though I'm sure you watch the New Eden Assembly. This would be an interesting discussion to have.
I'm not one for posting on the IGS often but if you need to reach me. I'm sure we talk about this concept futher.
Silva
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.21 12:50:00 -
[155]
There have been several instances in the history of New Eden where NRDS was (and still is) enforced in 0.0 sec, and it works perfectly fine. But obviously, because NBSI have so much greater numerical support, it has always been a hard struggle to maintain an NRDS RoE, since for apparent reasons NRDS and NBSI are natural enemies.
However, when the going gets tough, the tough get going! |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:52:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Major JSilva I have to say the whole point of you "universal" NRDS is very flawed and sadly will never work. Having operated in deep 0.0 and low-sec one needs to adopt a so called NBSI policy.
NBSI in 0.0 is standard because the alliances who enforce it own the territory which is their home. Free from CONCORD enforcement thus creating capsuleer nation-states in a certain regard.
I disagree, for the same reasons explained by Mr Yagari. |
Jock Landers
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:05:00 -
[157]
My personal opinion is that NRDS is better for New Eden in several different ways. One being it promotes a sense of community and is more friendly to new pilots of Eve. My preference is to play this game in a manner that's supportive rather than desctructive. A community of NRDS should support each other, and proactively fight those that stand against this coalition.
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Lu'ay al Din
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.22 02:19:00 -
[158]
I am but a mere servant of His will, but I would like to make an addition to your discussion, mr. Yagari.
If we all let God guide our actions such practicalities as you describe are really not neccessary. It is the mind of the strongwilled that needs his lesser proponents to behave in a manner he can control and he upholds it with measures easily understandable and executable to them, like NRDS and NBSI.
His Will is neither Red, nor Blue, his path not paved with certainty nor simplicity, but with love and foregiveness. Civility, justice, revenge or whatever motive that is fueling the rules of human contact and individual decisions on how to engage in interstellar relations cannot be captured in the simple rules we state as NRDS or NBSI.
It is the spirit of what this NRDS Coalition Initiative says that we should expand upon. And if there has to be somewhere to start to improve or even normalize interstellar relations what better can we use other than the insights and guidance given to us in Pax Amarria.
Shall I provide copies of Pax Amarria to the members of your coalition?
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