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Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.08.31 20:35:00 - [1] People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to *** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) THE RULES of PvP'ing with Aiwha** 1. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. 2. When it does go wrong, it's probably Aiwha's fault. 3. If it's not Aiwha's fault, it soon will be
KaarBaak Minmatar Hell's Librarians Imperium Directive	Posted - 2010.08.31 20:36:00 - [2] Came expecting rain on my wedding day. Disappointed. KB =vinur allra manna MetaGaming
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.08.31 20:42:00 - [3] Originally by: Aiwha People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) Good sir..the carebear Community salutes you7
Roosterton	Posted - 2010.08.31 20:47:00 - [4] I don't have anything highsec carebears. (Although I might still hunt them ) What I dislike is carebears who think they have a moral high horse and are superior just because they produce stuff. They're forgetting that without PVPers, there would be no one to consume their goods. Also, a few hours of ratting will typically be enough for me to build a battleship or BC for myself... Now, 0.0 carebears who do mercoxit and moon mining to get me all my shiny T2 goods, that I appreciate
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.08.31 21:24:00 - [5] Edited by: Ghoest on 31/08/2010 21:24:41 I like high sec care bears almost as much as I like 0.0 elitists. The elitists sell me stuff at really cheap prices because they are too busy being awesome to bother getting a fair price. Then the care bears pay me way to much because they have no way to get this stuff themselves. And then other times the care bears way over produce stuff so they unload it cheap. Then the elitists pay me a fortune to bring it to them. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.08.31 21:27:00 - [6] Edited by: Stitcher on 31/08/2010 21:28:13 There's a distinction between being an industrialist, and being a carebear. I'm the former. I have good (not perfect, but good) science and industry skills, and several million SP in all the PvP skills. thanks to the fact my toon is five years old in a couple of months, I can reasonably claim to be equally good at both industry and PvP in terms of character skills, and not a half bad PvPer in terms of player skill. A carebear isn't an industrialist. A carebear is somebody who basically doesn't play the game. Go to a newbie system like Todaki and park outside the newbie station - I guarantee you'll see an NPC corp hulk on your overview very soon. They'll warp off to some crappy asteroid belt, mine a single cycle of veldspar, then scoot back to the station, rinse and repeat, as if they're terrified of being caught out in the open in 1.0 with a hold full of veld. Heaven forfend that they should ever risk venturing into the hostile, shark-infested waters of a 0.9 system. "Carebear" has its negative meaning not because of PvPer elitism about "PVP IS SUPEREUR TO INDUSTREE LOL", but because honest-to-god carebears - the real deal - are genuinely pathetic and have earned every last iota of scorn aimed their way. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Hari Markkus Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2010.08.31 21:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Stitcher Go to a newbie system like Todaki and park outside the newbie station - I guarantee you'll see an NPC corp hulk on your overview very soon. They'll warp off to some crappy asteroid belt, mine a single cycle of veldspar, then scoot back to the station, rinse and repeat, as if they're terrified Well, they should stop watching scary stuff on the telly while their bot does all the work.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.31 21:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Hari Markkus Originally by: Stitcher Go to a newbie system like Todaki and park outside the newbie station - I guarantee you'll see an NPC corp hulk on your overview very soon. They'll warp off to some crappy asteroid belt, mine a single cycle of veldspar, then scoot back to the station, rinse and repeat, as if they're terrified Well, they should stop watching scary stuff on the telly while their bot does all the work. No, that's what makes it pathetic. The carebears aren't botting, they're actually ~mining~... Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
RifterDrifter Red Federation	Posted - 2010.08.31 21:47:00 - [9] Edited by: RifterDrifter on 31/08/2010 21:49:18 ITT pubbies with no idea about carebear-alts. And FYI Eve economy is entirely running on the perpetual destruction of assets in 0.0 and fueled by 0.0-Moonmining. Originally by: Stitcher A carebear isn't an industrialist. A carebear is somebody who basically doesn't play the game. Wrong. _______________________________________________
Ryhss Caldari Ominous Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Aiwha People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) Very nice. I'm inbetween a "carebear" and a PVP 0.0 pilot.
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Aiwha So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. The ship my main flies and the mods on it have been manufactured by a fellow 0.0 corpmate that PvPs most of the time, thank you very much. Carebears are not getting laughed at for producing stuff.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:14:00 - [12] Oh cool, the people cranking open the null sec ISK faucet blowing the people cranking open the high sec ISK faucet, cool guys... 69!!!
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:14:00 - [13] Edited by: Klandi on 31/08/2010 22:17:16 I would mildly disagree with the OP as there are carebears out there... I make stuff and like blowing up stuff as well so I will generalize my title as an industrialist. These are the folks that can make your ship,mods and ammo then happily come out with the Pvpers and blow other ships up. These are the folks that help make null-sec residents powerful. amirite? (didnt read other responses so have duplicated some answers)
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:20:00 - [14] Originally by: RifterDrifter And FYI Eve economy is entirely running on the perpetual destruction of assets in 0.0 This. With no major (big fleet fights) ship/module losses there would be no need to mine or build anything.
Opertone Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:27:00 - [15] no I hate 0.0 because of pipes... too easy to block one and be self proclaimed "cosmic owner"
okst666	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:36:00 - [16] Edited by: okst666 on 31/08/2010 22:40:02 how do you call us..we are in 0.0 wh space and if someone jumps in, we go offline. 0sec-carebears? maybe...but we never ever loose a ship. edit: right now there is a russian drake shooting at one of our towers without doing any damage at all. We know that there are 4 tengus and other stuff waiting on the other side of the hole... its a tarp..:D we go offline and play with our wifes instead..way much more entertaining than playing with russians. :P
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:44:00 - [17] Thinking about your weak attempt to troll, I wonder how many true l33t pvp players simply just do pvp and never do pve/industry etc to raise isk? The answer, none. I know the guys I was shooting who were lagged out in e9 yesterday will be ratting/building to recover from their losses.
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:45:00 - [18] Originally by: KaarBaak Came expecting rain on my wedding day. Disappointed. That's because it's a free ride when you've already paid.
Estella Vance	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:01:00 - [19] I find it ironic, that sometimes I have ten thousand spoons in my kitchen, when all I need is a knife.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Estella Vance I find it ironic, that sometimes I have ten thousand spoons in my kitchen, when all I need is a knife. I cut my food on my many diamond hard abs. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Estella Vance I find it ironic, that sometimes I have ten thousand spoons in my kitchen, when all I need is a knife. I cut my food on my many diamond hard abs. -Liang I to cut my food on your diamond hard abs.
Estella Vance	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Jita Alt666 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Estella Vance I find it ironic, that sometimes I have ten thousand spoons in my kitchen, when all I need is a knife. I cut my food on my many diamond hard abs. -Liang I to cut my food on your diamond hard abs. It figures
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Estella Vance I find it ironic, that sometimes I have ten thousand spoons in my kitchen, when all I need is a knife. I cut my food on my many diamond hard abs. No. You're fat. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:36:00 - [24] No your mistaken. I am fat hence I use her abs to cut my food.
IsoMetricanTaliac 2 Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:42:00 - [25] People that usually do all the labeling of others only do so because they wished they had the balls/ability to live in 0.0, & it is usually the same sort of people that call industrialists carebears. Mean while these same people go around looking for the easiest ganks they can get because they know if they go up against someone that has any idea they will be crushed. Yes what the OP is saying is true as every area of game play has it's importance in the bigger picture, because you need people that PVP to help keep your assets safer, the people that PVP need people that build ships/ammo/mods etc so they can go get themselves blown up or whatever. The industrialists need the PVPer's/PVE'ers so they can make more ISK by selling their stuff to them. In a Time When Many Will Seek Death, There Will Always Be Those Like Me Who Won't Mind Helping Them Along Their Way!?!
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.01 01:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/08/2010 21:28:13 There's a distinction between being an industrialist, and being a carebear. I'm the former. I have good (not perfect, but good) science and industry skills, and several million SP in all the PvP skills. thanks to the fact my toon is five years old in a couple of months, I can reasonably claim to be equally good at both industry and PvP in terms of character skills, and not a half bad PvPer in terms of player skill. A carebear isn't an industrialist. A carebear is somebody who basically doesn't play the game. Go to a newbie system like Todaki and park outside the newbie station - I guarantee you'll see an NPC corp hulk on your overview very soon. They'll warp off to some crappy asteroid belt, mine a single cycle of veldspar, then scoot back to the station, rinse and repeat, as if they're terrified of being caught out in the open in 1.0 with a hold full of veld. Heaven forfend that they should ever risk venturing into the hostile, shark-infested waters of a 0.9 system. "Carebear" has its negative meaning not because of PvPer elitism about "PVP IS SUPEREUR TO INDUSTREE LOL", but because honest-to-god carebears - the real deal - are genuinely pathetic and have earned every last iota of scorn aimed their way. You ever think that maybe they are like that because people like you gank them?And can flip them?It ruins the game for them from the start.Whats pathetic is people like you attacking ships equipt with nothing more than mining lasers.And then have the nerve to brag about the kills like you did something..lol.Im not a miner either..i have my pvp account and a mission alt.Just stating what i see in game.Anyone with nothing but mining ships on their kill board is fail in my eyes.
Jimmmy Jones	Posted - 2010.09.01 02:45:00 - [27] Edited by: Jimmmy Jones on 01/09/2010 02:48:24 edit: double post, damn time warp
Jimmmy Jones	Posted - 2010.09.01 02:48:00 - [28] Nay, I happen to know for a fact that the NC does a lot of thier own t2 prod......oh wai......nvm
IoWalker	Posted - 2010.09.01 04:07:00 - [29] I thought there was a shadow market supply of everything and that, basically, the player driven economy was a big lie.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.01 04:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Stick Cult Originally by: Hari Markkus Originally by: Stitcher Go to a newbie system like Todaki and park outside the newbie station - I guarantee you'll see an NPC corp hulk on your overview very soon. They'll warp off to some crappy asteroid belt, mine a single cycle of veldspar, then scoot back to the station, rinse and repeat, as if they're terrified Well, they should stop watching scary stuff on the telly while their bot does all the work. No, that's what makes it pathetic. The carebears aren't botting, they're actually ~mining~... Next time you take out your pew pew ship of doom to pwn some willing or unwilling targets thank that miner for injecting the minerals needed to build the mods and ships that you used. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Anhenka Minmatar Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.09.01 04:51:00 - [31] But I have to thank massive nullsec alliances for the moongoo....not a lot of actual mins involved.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.01 05:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Anhenka not a lot of actual mins involved. On the actual harvesting? True enough. But organizing and running the alliance that lets you harvest that moongoo in peace is damn near a full time job. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 09:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Aiwha Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. Nope. Quote: So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. àand this would be a fair request if the carebears in return stopped QQ:ing about being blown up ù they should be thankful that someone is providing them with a market. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Hey Gumpy	Posted - 2010.09.01 09:48:00 - [34] TBQFH I buy my stuff inter-alliance. It's built out in 0.0, from 0.0 minerals. Also invented out in 0.0 as well.
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:02:00 - [35] I find more irony in the players of this so called sandbox drawing lines in the sand to categorize it's players into two wildly inaccurate groups. Why can't you all just be EVE players and play the game, surely it cannot have escaped your logic that most people clearly have both a "Pirate" and a "Carebear" character kind of making the whole categorization pointless. I like to play a sandbox game because there are no pre-defined careers or paths to success, why do you all insist on creating your own?
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:16:00 - [36] I always thank them for the loot and ISK from the ransom.. Now i also have to say thx for my ship? Isn't that a bit to much? -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
Makko Gray Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:31:00 - [37] I create and consume - no reason to only have one string to your bow. Carebears are great as long as they don't start thinking the universe owes them a free ride, or that high sec should make the invulnerable from the interactions of others. But those that can take the wardecs and suicide ganks along with the mountains of ore and elite trades deserve praise indeed - we salute you!
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:49:00 - [38] In the experience I have, carebears (the industrialist ones) drive a large part of the EVE economy and the mission runners certainly provide buckets of ISK to PVP'ers who want to sell those deadspace items to carebears. Question remains though, apart from buying bling ships, what do carebears do with all there money?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.09.01 10:51:00 - [39] I find Iron quite Ironic. j/k 0.0 players do have a certain right to knowing how to play. They're selfsufficent, they dont need high sec as much as you think, they do have thier own breed of war bears whom still provide thier back bone, and they live in quite a harsh enviornment, a sort of die or die trying. They make and build thier own and watch and care for thier own. Like a pack of wolves. and btw I wouldnt be classified as a care bear, more like a dead bear as i have a further difficult time to find for playing eve or continue my ingame research on theories and fittings. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
stankpod	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:00:00 - [40] Ill paly the game the way I want and dont give a shart in the wind what you people think about it, If you dont like it drink my pod water
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:07:00 - [41] What is a 'carebear'? In every mmo I have played.. frighteningly since the before some of you were born .. it has stood for someone who enjoys socialising, helping others advance in the game (at their own expense) and doesn't like to see/hear/experience sociopaths griefing others by using gameplay exploits etc. NOTE: PVP is NOT griefing. There is a clear distinction between what constitutes griefing in EVE and what is a legitmate (and fun) play style. That is not what most people are thinking of when they use the term in EVE. I'm not trying to be pedantic here but consider it .. Active, sociable, competitive and geographically transient players (that is most of null sec and low sec populations) loathe the 'EVE' carebear because they display all the opposite qualities to the 'carebear' of old. That is they are often: 1. Fundamentally anti social, viewing EVE as a single player game that everyone else is just visting. 2. Fundamentally anti gameplay, preferring instead to conduct repetative tasks through which they can extend their game footprint/epeen by buying ever more expensive faction fit battleships to spin. 3. Often afk/incommunicado and in so being draw scorn of those who are more active/vocal. 4. Often want to change the game to suit their own playstyle - more so than those who are happy to adapt to the challenges and work around them by using guile, cunning and experience garnered by 'having a go' etc. 5. Usually, but not always, they choose to ignore the complexity and whole areas of the game in favour of a self contained (dumbed down) approach which they have usually carried over from other less challenging games. Which is just a red rag to the bull that are most EVE 'enthusiasts'. Let's face it. You don't have to be an 'anti gamer' or a 'griefer' to loathe and despise EVE 'carebears'. People, not emotionally impaired griefers, regular game playing people with a sense of reality beyond their own ego, hate 'carebears' in EVE because they are anti-EVE. Hold it. Stop. Look. Listen. People who do industry are not carebears. People who mine are not carebears. People who chose to do station trading are not carebears. Carebears in EVE are people who refuse to participate except on their own narrow mandate and there is probably an underline fear that as the number of people who 'play' this way increases exponentially ahead of those who 'have a go' the best bits of EVE will be undermined and eventually ignored by the bean counters. In short: we don't want Universe of Warcraft Online and 'carebears' represent the menacing shadow of that horrible potential outcome cast over EVE. If we accept these people and in so doing they begin to outnumber everyone else then gradually the end of EVE would seem like it is creeping closer and closer with every new sub who pays CCP to go afk in a Golem in high sec. I just wish we had a more derogative (and rankly accurate) term for them that didn't discriminate against legitimate carebears that is people who care about the social fabric and want to help people get into EVE and stick around and join in on ****. Many of whom I have worked with in null sec and high sec alike. Bleh. Vented. Thanks for listening.
RuckaLucka Ali GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:30:00 - [42] Never seen your allaince must be a renter!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:39:00 - [43] Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 11:39:21 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Truth Good vent! edit: in fact, thumbed! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 12:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 11:39:21 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Truth Good vent! indeed -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 12:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall 1. Fundamentally anti social, viewing EVE as a single player game that everyone else is just visting. 2. Fundamentally anti gameplay, preferring instead to conduct repetative tasks through which they believe that they can extend their game footprint/epeen by buying ever more expensive faction fit battleships to 'win' Worlds Collide. Again. 3. Often afk/incommunicado and in so being draw the scorn of those who are more active/vocal. Or who really don't like the way all these people clog up high sec systems and give the impression to new players that this is what eve is all about and that they should probably start doing the same thing etc. 4. Often want to change the game to suit their own playstyle - more so than those who are happy to adapt to the challenges and work around them by using guile, cunning and experience garnered by 'having a go' etc. 5. Usually, but not always, they choose to ignore the complexity and whole areas of the game in favour of a self contained (dumbed down) approach which they have usually carried over from other less challenging games. Which is just a red rag to the bull that are most EVE 'enthusiasts'. You know, pretty much everything you described could by applied to the elitist/griefer PVPer. 1. Antisocial/destructive behavior... Check 2. Repetitive anti-game play (see ninja salvagers, gate campers)... Check 3. Don't like/jealous because of the way hi sec is populated... Check 4. Desire to change game to suit own playstyle (aka shooting fish in a barrel)... Check 5. Ignore complexity of game to just PVP, because FPS is what they're used to... Check So then I ask you, what's the difference between the carebear and the elitist PVPer? Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:07:00 - [46] There are lots of carebears in 0.0 as well. In fact, there are probably just as many carebears in 0.0 as there are pvpers in high sec. Being in 0.0 don't make you l33t lol click here
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:24:00 - [47] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 You know, pretty much everything you described could by applied to the elitist/griefer PVPer. 1. Antisocial/destructive behavior... Check 2. Repetitive anti-game play (see ninja salvagers, gate campers)... Check 3. Don't like/jealous because of the way hi sec is populated... Check 4. Desire to change game to suit own playstyle (aka shooting fish in a barrel)... Check 5. Ignore complexity of game to just PVP, because FPS is what they're used to... Check So then I ask you, what's the difference between the carebear and the elitist PVPer? On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. They also have much less of an impact on the long term PVE:PVP ratio as determined by the money men. And so are, in their own infinitely more irritating fashion, considerably less harmful to EVE than expanded PVE and an expanded PVE whoring anti-bear colony. Look I am not dead against anti-bears. I just think they should not be given their own private sub shard (high sec) and game content (PVE) in areas the rest of the population who do choose to play EVE Online not World of Wallies In Space are denied access to; literally or by arbitrary manipulation of the game mechanics (concorde). If you want to anti-bear I want the right to try and shoot you in the face. Of course balance is key and we need a sec system with clear boundries and some redundancy/safety net. Of course I am happy high sec is full of people doing all manner of things interactively with each other. Thats A-ok. Whats not A-ok is expanding PVE content and isk/hr returns to give them even less of a reason to interact and encourage even more of them to subscribe and so create a viscious and terminal cycle of ghastly homogenization and increasingly pasteurised content up to and including 'dancing in stations'. Even though I am looking forward to Incarna! What's not A-ok is making two parallel games based on outside business interests: one of which contains people who irritate each other, the other containing people who ignore everyone else. Then advertising it as emergent etc. Ninjas. Griefers. Opportunity knocker(s) and other emergence cataylsts (I like that one!) in fact colour-in EVE by providing more interactive experience for everyone. That is, like it or not, within acceptable bounds of EVE gameplay. It is EVE gameplay. It is the (unwritten) constitutional right of everyone in EVE to be annoyed by the action (note, action not in-action) of another. Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. PS: Excuse my excessive use of parenthesis. I was born before virtual machines. I get counselling for it. Don't worry.
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.09.01 13:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Yet again the truth You sir not only see the essence on EVE, you are also able to write it down! -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
Syn Callibri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:14:00 - [49] Something I have discovered is this simple truth... Almost everyone was a "carebear" at one time or another. This generally comes from jumping into PvP right away and getting the "v" knocked out of thier PvP, so the collective "they" dwell in Hi-sec training skills and learning how to choose and mod ships to be competative in pew-pew. I can say with a great amount of assurance that NO ONE started this game a PvP superstar...everyone has to start somewhere. ...just my .02 ISK. Syn Callibri Mistress of the Blood Pact "Naut-elghinyrr" of Vulkor-Khaine
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:19:00 - [50] On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? Where do I stand if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Do the "Anti-Bears" not have just as much a right to take the game in the direction they want as you? How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want?
Syn Callibri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Sol Mahon On a basic 'principle' level? None whatsoever. On a gameplay and more importantly EVE specific level: Interaction with others. Shooting people in the face is interactive. Its 'emergent'. It has possible outcomes other than the dulcet twang of scripted inevitability. So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? Where do I stand if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Do the "Anti-Bears" not have just as much a right to take the game in the direction they want as you? How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want? QFT Syn Callibri Mistress of the Blood Pact "Naut-elghinyrr" of Vulkor-Khaine
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Sol Mahon So the differentiation between "Carebear" and "Elitist PVPer" is shooting at someone else? Do you believe unloading all barrels at the nearest target makes a "Carebear" an "Elitist PVPer"? No. Interacting with someone else. This requires communication and a shared domain. Not multi boxing basement dwellers whoring high sec missions to buy more accounts to further undermine the entire principle of emergence and interactivity that is supposedly EVE Online. Quote: Where do I if I spend all my time ignoring everyone else and then one day I decide to target and subsequently destroy someone else? Do I fit into one of your thinly veiled categorizations then? No. We call that Finding Emo. In that one exquisite moment of epiphany and subsequent act of virtual insurrection you achieved salvation. You attained Nirvana. Welcome. Brother. Truly. Up to that point you were mistaken in your beliefs. You probably thought that was real self esteem you were nurturing. Real success you were whoring. Now you can know kung fu! The path to enlightenment .. karmic revelations .. you are not alone! Quote: In addition who are you to say that EVE should be taken in any direction and how are your views and opinions better or equal to that of the "Anti-Bears" views and opinions? Those who have the will, fight it out and determine amongst themselves who gets what. Those who refuse to compete deserve contempt at best. They should categorically never be given a voice. Might is right. This is EVE. Wrong MMO. Equality? Pfft. EVE is a meritocracy. Or was. Where is the merit in cowering behind your logidomi alt in ded space? What respect do you command doing that? How does your inherent lack of a spine impact on the rest of us? If not at all: good stuff. Keep it up. Enjoy your 'sandbox'. If, as we are seeing, it has a big effect on us, you need to be addressed. With red ink. And underlined. Quote: How is it wrong to want to play EVE as a solo pilot? Isn't it entirely possible for one person to spend half of there EVE career playing solo and isolated and the rest as an "Elitist PVPer" once they reach a certain point? Should the people who do this not be given the chance to do so because they do not meet the criteria you have laid out here and therefore should be deemed hazardous to the health and integrity of EVE's future? I started to answer this but my gag response forced me away from my computer .. I will say this tho: The opposite of an Anti-Bear is not an "Elitist PVPer". Yet you presume to lecture on the subejct of generalisations and .. gah .. polarization? Tut. Tut! Quote: I understand the points you have made but you fail to take into account, EVE needs both the solo/isolated pilots and the PVPers to be EVE, without one side of the coin EVE would get boring fast, and would no longer be a sandbox, and ultimately is that not the point of EVE? To play as you want, when you want and how you want? I don't think you do. A lot of what I said was just me having a rant. However you do not and can not ever feasibly convince me that such baise-moi 'real' world concepts as right, wrong, fairness and equality have a place in EVE Online. There are only those who do, those who try to do and those who, lamentably and to the detriment of the entire experience, for everyone else, refuse to do. Refuse to entertain the concept of doing. Reject it out of hand. Snub it. Then, perversely, vocally, demand their digital right to ignore everyone else in their own space-box. Unmolested. That's some warped ass logic if I do say so myself ..
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:11:00 - [53] I'm not even going to bother with this I don't think.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Sol Mahon I'm not even going to bother with this I don't think. No change there then.
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Aiwha People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) Most allainces build their own ships and mods and carebears don't come into it at anypoint other than as someone to sell the officer mods to.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:21:00 - [56] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. You're one of those, eh. "Carebears are the cancer of Eve", while the elitist PVPers are nothin' but goodness. Carebears are playing the game wrong, while you are playing it right. I get it :P. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:31:00 - [57] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Like it or not EVE has a culture. It has a character and it has a context. Anti-bears are a parasitic infection from dance-emote hell. Nobody knows how they got here or which dirty fecker carried them in on the soles of his shoes. But they are here. And they are breeding. They are obscene. They are unholy. They bleed and undermine and eventually distort the game design direction. They harm EVE by making it more profitable in ways that categorically contradict the core principles of EVE sub-culture. So we quite understandably want them shaved, bathed and humanely euthanaised. Before they effectively divide, through sheer numbers, New Eden's diminishing game space any further with the them and 'us' crap sandwich. You're one of those, eh. "Carebears are the cancer of Eve", while the elitist PVPers are nothin' but goodness. Carebears are playing the game wrong, while you are playing it right. I get it :P. Nah just another over caffeinated cracker with too much time on his hands .. Take nothing I said as representive of EVE, my sincere opinion or indeed truth. Find your own chuffing truth I say! Leave mine alone. BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:37:00 - [58] Seems like the carebear label is a fine line to walk. I'm an industrialist/mission runner that lives in high sec currently. I've been in 0.0 alliances in the past, but I found I didn't really enjoy that lifestyle...too many requirements to be online at certain times. I do some exploration and wormholes when I have the time. I do not avoid lowsec space, though I will use a blockade runner when I haul goods through there. I play the market a bit too. My goal in EvE right now is to make lots of ISK through my various endeavours. I'm I a carebear?
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:50:00 - [59] BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job. After post 51, I find anything you type to be rather deluded, as I'm sure most others who attempted to read it also did, so I harbor no resentment, but I appreciate the sentiment here, so thank you. Unfortunately my Bonzai tree died as I only cared for half of it.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Sol Mahon BTW @ Sol Mahon I didn't mean to give you the rolly-eyes. Wasn't being sarcastic. A knowing, inclusive, back slapping smile should have sufficed. But blow me if I'm not prone to being a bit *****y. Nothing personal. I'm sure you've had more fun pruning your bonzai tree than I have ever had running away from a steady job. After post 51, I find anything you type to be rather deluded, as I'm sure most others who attempted to read it also did, so I harbor no resentment, but I appreciate the sentiment here, so thank you. Unfortunately my Bonzai tree died as I only cared for half of it. Very magnanimous of you.
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Very magnanimous of you. For me to be magnanimous would require that you first caused me some form of injury or distress, that simply is not so. There is only one thing better than putting forward and arguing your point well, and that is when your opposition does it for you.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:29:00 - [62] Originally by: Sol Mahon Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Very magnanimous of you. For me to be magnanimous would require that you first caused me some form of injury or distress, that simply is not so. There is only one thing better than putting forward and arguing your point well, and that is when your opposition does it for you. This thread has legs. It could run and run!
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Sol Mahon Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Very magnanimous of you. For me to be magnanimous would require that you first caused me some form of injury or distress, that simply is not so. There is only one thing better than putting forward and arguing your point well, and that is when your opposition does it for you. This thread has legs. It could run and run! sniff I'm so proud of it. THE RULES of PvP'ing with Aiwha 1. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. 2. When it does go wrong, it's probably Aiwha's fault. 3. If it's not Aiwha's fault, it soon will be
Sol Mahon Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:37:00 - [64] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Originally by: Sol Mahon Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Very magnanimous of you. For me to be magnanimous would require that you first caused me some form of injury or distress, that simply is not so. There is only one thing better than putting forward and arguing your point well, and that is when your opposition does it for you. This thread has legs. It could run and run! Only until I go home
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:51:00 - [65] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 01/09/2010 16:54:00 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall No. Interacting with someone else. This requires communication and a shared domain. Not multi boxing basement dwellers whoring high sec missions to buy more accounts to further undermine the entire principle of emergence and interactivity that is supposedly EVE Online. If I were a betting man I'd say there are just as much "multi boxing basement dwellers whoring missions" as there are multi boxing basement dwellers PVPing. It's interesting to see you tag derogatory labels on carebears when they can be easily tagged on the same playstyles that you find acceptable. And the only undermining carebears are doing is that of your elitist radical "i-play-eve-right-u-play-it-wrong" views. Quote: Those who have the will, fight it out and determine amongst themselves who gets what. Those who refuse to compete deserve contempt at best. They should categorically never be given a voice. Might is right. This is EVE. Wrong MMO. Equality? Pfft. EVE is a meritocracy. Or was. Where is the merit in cowering behind your logidomi alt in ded space? What respect do you command doing that? How does your inherent lack of a spine impact on the rest of us? If not at all: good stuff. Keep it up. Enjoy your 'sandbox'. If, as we are seeing, it has a big effect on us, you need to be addressed. With red ink. And underlined. I can see that e-balls are important to you. And that's great. Nothing wrong with your play style. But implying that not wanting to combat-PVP is somehow reflecting on someone's cowardice is ridiculous. And crying about CCP giving carebears the time of day because you personally feel like they don't deserve it reflects more on your own ill feelings towards them. You obviously have unresolved hatred and jealousy issues. And you also seem to have that elitist view that anyone not playing the game how you deem it right to play isn't deserving of playing it. And no matter how many dictionaries and thesaurus books you use your bitterness shines through. Quote: A lot of what I said was just me having a rant. However you do not and can not ever feasibly convince me that such baise-moi 'real' world concepts as right, wrong, fairness and equality have a place in EVE Online. There are only those who do, those who try to do and those who, lamentably and to the detriment of the entire experience, for everyone else, refuse to do. Refuse to entertain the concept of doing. Reject it out of hand. Snub it. Then, perversely, vocally, demand their digital right to ignore everyone else in their own space-box. Unmolested. That's some warped ass logic if I do say so myself .. Have a seat. Grab a beer. Play Eve. Forget about those "anti-social" carebears that seem to be consuming you alive. Find like-minded people and have some fun. Just some advice. Carebears are here to stay. I suspect they represent a rather large portion of the population and as a consequence, a nice chunk of CCP's income. Deal with it or pick up your dictionary/thesaurus and leave. Simple enough. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor Elite	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:55:00 - [66] Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/09/2010 16:56:05 Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Hold it. Stop. Look. Listen. People who do industry are not carebears. People who mine are not carebears. People who chose to do station trading are not carebears. Nobody who is actively playing EVE in a fashion which relies on interaction with other players is a carebear. Carebears are people with billions of isk in their wallet who are flying faction fitted faction ships... and yet they still cry when they lose a couple of Battlecruisers. They stink up local with their tears when they do lose, and after they get hit once or twice they seem to suffer from a kind of post traumatic PVP Syndrome in game. Let Me Ask The Op This? -- and do please respond. Do you like the kind of players I described above? [ ] Yes [ ] No
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:21:00 - [67] Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 01/09/2010 19:21:28 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Carebears are here to stay. I suspect they represent a rather large portion of the population and as a consequence, a nice chunk of CCP's income. Deal with it or pick up your dictionary/thesaurus and leave. Simple enough. I had a nice double post ready..and if this forum wouldnt suck so bad i might have been able to post it.Not worth my time writing it again.So ill just stick with this quote cuz it sums it up pretty good.
Donny Maurasi	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:27:00 - [68] I thought the only difference between 00 elitists and high sec care bears was the null sec guys think they are better. Low sec is where it's at.. Care bearing in low sec never goes unpunished.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.01 20:09:00 - [69] Quote: And crying about CCP giving carebears the time of day because you personally feel like they don't deserve it reflects more on your own ill feelings towards them. Does it? I hadn't noticed ..
Musical Fist Gallente NAP Coalition	Posted - 2010.09.01 20:18:00 - [70] Originally by: Aiwha People like to call us 0.0 fighters "elitists" or snobby, lording ourselves over the rest of EVE. Which we do. But then I see all these threads with horrible disdain for "highsec carebears". I want you, YES YOU, to stop for a moment, and look at your ship and equipment. Every engine of destruction you have ever flown, shot, or activated, was created with loving care by these "care-bears" you ridicule and mock. They do jobs that we refuse to do because in some weird way they enjoy it, just so we can go out and get them blown up. So next time you want to ***** at a carebear and ridicule his chosen profession with your "l33t pvp skillz". Maybe you should change your QQ'ing to a thank you, for everything they have done in the past and will continue to do for us all. Thank you. (yaaar, but in lowsec/nullsec ye be pvp'ing even if your in the hulk ) Sorry to break your bubble but 0.0 has been the new empire for quite sometime now, Jita gets more action than the whole of the north (unless you count ratting as pvp) and Rancer gets more action than the whole of 0.0. Therefore 0.0 is the new empire, gotta NAP em all -- Recruitment now open!!
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.01 21:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Musical Fist Sorry to break your bubble but 0.0 has been the new empire for quite sometime now, Jita gets more action than the whole of the north (unless you count ratting as pvp) and Rancer gets more action than the whole of 0.0. Therefore 0.0 is the new empire, gotta NAP em all Hello. Looking at your corp name I would suggest your the biggest NAP fan. Perhaps you should negotiate terms of peace between the NC and the SC?
Jimmmy Jones	Posted - 2010.09.01 22:48:00 - [72] As a solution to the whole careabear/elite pvpr I have formulated a simple test to determine which one you are/are likely to become. You warp your ratting ship into a belt and notice a triple 1.85 BS spawn. At the same time you notice one of your alliances FC's just called a nanoroam. Do you think "well I'll pop these rats and then go join" or "Damn thats bad timing, where did I store my vagabond again?" If you answered the first one, you may have carebearish tendancies. If you answered the second one you are both a nano*** and at least partially a pvpr. P.S If your wallet contains less that the cost of a well fit pvp HAC ignore this test :P We all do things we dislike when we are broke...

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