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Electra001
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 05:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to propose another alternative to the AFK-Cloaking problem. I understand that CCP encourage most type of gameplay, however, stopping people from playing the game because someone has left their character logged in while cloaked isnt fair.
Why not create the following:
As soon as you cloak, a 'Tachyon Signature' number begins and slowly climbs. When you warp to a new spot, that number starts again. However, if you stay still or even at subwarp velocities, your Tachyon signature begins to raise. Very slowly mind you...it would need to take at least an hour before you could be probed by someone with max skills in scanning.
Someone in a covert ops (eg. Helios) would need 4x Tachyon Scanner Probes. With these probes, similar to normal combat probes but designed to pick up Tachyon Signatures, you could probe down someone who is cloaked while afk.
It bothers me that CCP have let this problem slide for so long. How is it fair when people log on their pilot, cloak up and go to work for a full day...which impacts so many people. Give the victims a chance to counteract the antagonists.
Thoughts? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
302
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
you can combat afk cloaking, you do it by getting the **** on with whatever else you were doing.
they're afk, they're hardly going to hot drop you while you're ratting. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Implying Implications
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
173
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Posted - 2012.07.28 06:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Show me on the doll where the AFK-cloaker touched you. püåpüÉpüàn+P |
Ned Black
Driders
46
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Posted - 2012.07.28 07:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
The problem is that you know the cloaker is there in the first place. Remove the cloaker from local and you can do whatever you like for as long as you like without any kind of fear of AFK cloakers...
You would have to be a bit scared about ACTIVE cloakers thought... but the AFK cloaking problem surely would go away. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
303
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Posted - 2012.07.28 08:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:I would like to propose another alternative to the AFK-Cloaking problem. I understand that CCP encourage most type of gameplay, however, stopping people from playing the game because someone has left their character logged in while cloaked isnt fair.
Why not create the following:
As soon as you cloak, a 'Tachyon Signature' number begins and slowly climbs. When you warp to a new spot, that number starts again. However, if you stay still or even at subwarp velocities, your Tachyon signature begins to raise. Very slowly mind you...it would need to take at least an hour before you could be probed by someone with max skills in scanning.
Someone in a covert ops (eg. Helios) would need 4x Tachyon Scanner Probes. With these probes, similar to normal combat probes but designed to pick up Tachyon Signatures, you could probe down someone who is cloaked while afk.
It bothers me that CCP have let this problem slide for so long. How is it fair when people log on their pilot, cloak up and go to work for a full day...which impacts so many people. Give the victims a chance to counteract the antagonists.
Thoughts?
The best solution to this non-problem..is to remove the cloaked from local so you can give your poor tired worry wart a rest. The AFK are not something you have to combat by nerfing all of cloakdome. Any type of implementation of your proposal would kill cloaking for things like legitamate recon, gate camp circumnatigation, and wormhole traversal. I'm sure all the nerfherders think the ideas great.. even though it's not. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Electra001
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 08:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Barbara Nichole, i see where you are coming from. But i did mention that if you are moving around while cloaked, you cannot be found. Duties such as legitimate recon, traversing wormholes etc wouldnt be affected. You would need to sit still for a certain amount of time (depending on ship size) and yes, most people say that if the person is actually AFK while cloaked, they post no threat. The victims do not know they're afk, and creating that false belief is what gets people killed when they presume that person is afk.
Long story short, if CCP are willing to punish botters because the player isnt at their computer, how is afk cloaking any different? Its a cheap and unfair tactic that has no immediate counter. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9021
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 08:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:Barbara Nichole, i see where you are coming from. But i did mention that if you are moving around while cloaked, you cannot be found. Duties such as legitimate recon, traversing wormholes etc wouldnt be affected. You would need to sit still for a certain amount of time (depending on ship size) and yes, most people say that if the person is actually AFK while cloaked, they post no threat. The victims do not know they're afk, and creating that false belief is what gets people killed when they presume that person is afk.
Long story short, if CCP are willing to punish botters because the player isnt at their computer, how is afk cloaking any different? Its a cheap and unfair tactic that has no immediate counter. Because botting directly gains you items for profit, without any player input. AFKing doesn't. It's also the direct opposite to botting. Botting requires action on your account. Whereas AFKing, requires absolutely no action whatsoever. Please don't suggest a link again, it's ridiculous.
As far as your idea is concerned, answer me this.... What game mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, through psychological warfare?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Electra001
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 10:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
The idea of a sandbox reality should not elicit the acceptance of players going afk, preventing others to go about their business by someone who isnt even at their computer. Yes, the psychological warfare becomes apparent to those who cannot determine if the instigator is actually on their pc or not. Either way, the results of cause and affect, which is what depicts a sandbox theme, shouldnt include afk tactics. If that kind of play is accepted, then we need to have a counter. And of course, there can be ways around being discovered. The stealthy ship would simply need to keep active and change locations every 30 minutes or so...or even uncloak to attack which would be one objective of the pilot, forcing him to actually be at the computer.
A direct answer to your question is the simple fact that AFK tactics are well known to result in monetary loss to players, in some cases, at an alliance level. Every kind of tactic should have a counter, including afk cloaking. If you're worried that this would prevent the effectiveness of cloaking, i completely disagree. Infact, it would hardly make any difference to how cloaking works now...except sitting still for so long, allowing players to begin locating the offenders ship. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9021
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sandbox is just that, whether I'm at the keyboard or not is irrelevant.
Those AFK do not prevent anyone from doing anything. They cannot stop your ship from warping, using gates, mining, ratting, docking, undocking and using modules etc.etc. The only one that can stop that, is you.
You can disagree all you like about it's nerfing effects, the fact is it would reduce the cloaks effectiveness and it's roles. You talk of cause and effect, but have yet to mention the actual cause.
So before we go on, please answer my question. What game mechanic are they using, to interact with you in an attempt to create fear through psychological warfare?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Electra001
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
First of all, I answered your question in my previous post.
Secondly, you've answered your own question with your opinion. Bold and repeat wont make much difference. Ive made my points to the flaud reasoning behind ccp allowing AFK cloaking to continue, you've given me your opinion. Cheers. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9021
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:First of all, I answered your question in my previous post.
Secondly, you've answered your own question with your opinion. Bold and repeat wont make much difference. Ive made my points to the flaud reasoning behind ccp allowing AFK cloaking to continue, you've given me your opinion. Cheers. You didn't answer it. I'll simplify it for you.
What game mechanic are they using to interact with you, whilst AFK?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remove afk players from local list. Afk players are prevented from running modules. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
439
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
So, you want to take a covert scout watching a gate, and force them to periodically abandon their observation post so they can keep your tachyon number down.
Maybe they are keeping a station under surveillance, so they can know when a wanted criminal exits without being seen themselves.
It's called covert for reasons like that.
My signature even has ideas you might like. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Electra001
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.07.29 03:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:So, you want to take a covert scout watching a gate, and force them to periodically abandon their observation post so they can keep your tachyon number down.
Maybe they are keeping a station under surveillance, so they can know when a wanted criminal exits without being seen themselves.
It's called covert for reasons like that.
My signature even has ideas you might like.
Your signature has brilliant ideas. The module timer for a cloak would also be a great option. And to be honest, it wouldnt be hard to change either.
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
617
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Posted - 2012.07.29 03:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
what problem?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9026
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 08:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:Your signature has brilliant ideas. The module timer for a cloak would also be a great option. And to be honest, it wouldnt be hard to change either. You keep avoiding all the difficult questions. We can all see that's always the way to win an argument. Especially when you don't have one.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Americe Zane
Dovahkiin. Rebel Alliance of New Eden
24
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Posted - 2012.07.29 09:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
This thread again?
Why not just delete Cov Ops from game? Disrupting the enemy is part of the Cov Ops role. |
Austneal
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
33
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Put speed mods on cheetah. Move in one direction. Prober scans down your cloaked ship and warps to you. Finds nothing because by the time he's landed, you're 9-10km away from him in an unknown direction. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
40
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Posted - 2012.07.29 19:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
I love the constant AFK cloaker "problem" discussions. They basically come down to NS carebears wanting to be safer in mining and ratting in NS than HS. Oh no there is non blue in local I have to stay docked up. Try wormholes where if you want to mine or rat you take your chances and watch dscan obsessively. Beside as Austneal points out a speedy bomber or covert ops frigate can warp to a safe spot, decloak and get up to a speed that they can't caught. So even if the cloak nerf happened there would be new method to annoy you.
PS- My one point of sympathy is that in NS is the amount of hot-dropping that goes on, which leads to one cloaker becoming a fleet of cap ships. It's one of the main things that keeps me out of NS.
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YoNightmare
the republic bank of freedom
0
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Posted - 2012.07.29 21:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why not just simply have the server disconnect players after 15mins like most games?
At least it would help with the lag in the game, and make it harder to bot. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9028
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 21:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
YoNightmare wrote: Why not just simply have the server disconnect players after 15mins like most games? At least it would help with the lag in the game, and make it harder to bot. Did you even think about that, before you posted?
1. An AFK timer is so easily avoidable and without breaking the EULA.
2. Lag is not and never will be an issue, from someone AFK and inactive.
3. Bots are by definition 'active', it's just a program doing the activity.
4. Purple Monkey socks.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
YoNightmare
the republic bank of freedom
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 21:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
1. K, so your a botter...
2. Lag is an issue with more clients connected and has always been an issue on any server.
3. See item 1
4. Greasy Grimy Gofer Guts...
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
741
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 02:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here we go again with another "the AFK cloaker is preventing me from bearing and making risk-free ISK."
The title should have been:
"CCP, please allow us to combat AFK Cloaking. Stupid ****ing idea inside." "CCP, please allow us to combat AFK Cloaking. Crybabying inside." "CCP, please break mechanics that are working as intended. ***** inside." "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
112
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Posted - 2012.07.30 03:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:Barbara Nichole, i see where you are coming from. But i did mention that if you are moving around while cloaked, you cannot be found. Duties such as legitimate recon, traversing wormholes etc wouldnt be affected. You would need to sit still for a certain amount of time (depending on ship size) and yes, most people say that if the person is actually AFK while cloaked, they post no threat. The victims do not know they're afk, and creating that false belief is what gets people killed when they presume that person is afk.
Long story short, if CCP are willing to punish botters because the player isnt at their computer, how is afk cloaking any different? Its a cheap and unfair tactic that has no immediate counter. How about those of us who fly black ops? I like to scan down complexes and then park a redeemer in it and then wait for someone to try to run it. This inevtably involves many hours of passively watching a computer monitor whilst the character is taking no action whatsoever. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
341
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
YoNightmare wrote: Why not just simply have the server disconnect players after 15mins like most games? At least it would help with the lag in the game, and make it harder to bot.
Um, bots do things constantly and wouldn't be disconnected?
Also, lots of bots can log themselves back in if a DC happens.
Also, this thread, again. CCP should start setting people who make these threads every day read-only on the forums. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
81
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Posted - 2012.07.30 11:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Austneal wrote:Put speed mods on cheetah. Move in one direction. Prober scans down your cloaked ship and warps to you. Finds nothing because by the time he's landed, you're 9-10km away from him in an unknown direction.
Drop more probes, scan with those, get result on grid, align to result, you have cloakies direction of travel, continue in that direction till you decloak him.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
192
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Posted - 2012.07.30 11:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Electra001 wrote:I would like to propose another alternative to the AFK-Cloaking problem. I understand that CCP encourage most type of gameplay, however, stopping people from playing the game because someone has left their character logged in while cloaked isnt fair.
If you'd bothered to actually look for other threads like the one you've created (or duplicated, depending on perspective) you'd have discovered that this topic has been debated to death. Your idea isn't new or ingeneous, it's a repetition of an old, whiney theme.
There is no "AFK cloaker" problem. There is a problem with people's perception of what they're complaining about. You're not complaing about people being AFK, you're complaining about being stupid enough to assume that someone is AFK when they're not. You're complaining about the fact that you and your corp are so incompetant that you're incapable of baiting a trap. You're complaining about the fact that you've moved to nullsec but you're still a high sec carebear and have fear in your heart. No one is stopping people from playing the game, they're making it a risk to carebear.
Simple solution: Grow a pair, gain some gonads.
The beauty of this solution is you don't need to wait for a dev to unnecessarily change the code. You're in control of this change.
Why should CCP change a mechanic that works for one that breaks a massive amount of people's game when the solution is so simple.
Be glad you have local. Those of us who live in wormholes from time to time know how to be careful and actively watch what's going on in the system. Try closing local when you're in nullsec. You'll no longer have the issue of AFK cloakers. No need for fear, right? You can't see them any more so they're not a threat, correct? Absolutely not. No, you need to actively watch what's going on around you.
Go live in a WH for a bit. You'll have a different perspective on nullsec intel once you have. You have it easy. You know when there's someone cloaked in your system so you can do something about it, whether that's get your corpmates together in your ganking ships and bait the chap or come onto the forums for a whine. In a WH the first thing you know about being attacked by a force recon is when he decloaks and locks you. Or a cov ops cloaked tengu which can be a day ruiner.
Do you read people from WHs whining on the forum about being ganked by cloakers? No, of course not because it's a fair tactic with counters.
AFK cloaking is only a tactic because high sec carebears like you move to nullsec and think that you should be able to bear there without having to fight for it, bait for it or risk for it.
You're wrong and no one is stopping you from playing except yourself. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sheesh, enough of this crap.
Yet another faceless forum alt posting the same poorly thought out idea. Clearly no thought about the wider game impact, just some zerobear crying for something that he cant be bothered to do himself.
With your Tachyon probes, you just broke wormholes. Good Job!
Also note the strong aversion to the 'remove cloakers from local fix''.
While this would mean that the AFK cloaker would not be seen, and therefore his physiological threat would be canceled (and this is always the main complaint from the nulbears), however it would mean that those people would have to do some work to counter cloaks.
I guess thatGÇÖs too hard, and they would rather cry to CCP.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9029
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 13:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
YoNightmare wrote:1. K, so your a botter... 2. Lag is an issue with more clients connected and has always been an issue on any server. 3. See item 1 4. Greasy Grimy Gofer Guts... 1. No, but at least you now know you were wrong on both counts.
2. Show me proof that the client sends enough data to cause lag, whilst the player is AFK and inactive.
3. Bots are still acting as active and thus will not be affected by the AFK timer. Also see 1.
4. It's spelt 'Gopher' and he would be wearing purple monkey socks.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2055
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 15:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Oh hey, it's a thread where cloaks get a timer that requires anti-cloak probes to detect it!
Variations on the same tired ideas. Cloaks are fine. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
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