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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.06 21:20:00 -
[1]
I'm doing the begginer military missions and got to the mission where your given a destroyer and told to go kill three pirates...however they advise being selective as to whom you kill first in order to survive.
long story short, i lost and my destroyer and the battle. just by a hair but my mistake was i left all three alive for too long and the damage was too great. i realize this but to be honest i couldn't quickly tell in the heat of battle, who was a more important target to get rid of first. theres no time to sit there examining their ship info and such...the red sheilds were dropping fast.
what is the quickest way to recognize the most important threat?
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Gayooseman
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Posted - 2010.09.06 22:07:00 -
[2]
after a while you just get the hang of it and can judge yourself. try to get rid of the one doing the most damage first, and try to stay out of their range. a destroyer can have a long range with small turrets so try to stay as far away as possible whilst still being in range. and focus fire, killing one at a time is better than doing damage across the board, less enemies=less damage. though I'm not exactly hugely experienced so i could be totally wrong
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Tranka Verrane
Mentors Administration
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Posted - 2010.09.06 22:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 06/09/2010 22:19:16
Originally by: Gayooseman after a while you just get the hang of it and can judge yourself. try to get rid of the one doing the most damage first, and try to stay out of their range. a destroyer can have a long range with small turrets so try to stay as far away as possible whilst still being in range. and focus fire, killing one at a time is better than doing damage across the board, less enemies=less damage. though I'm not exactly hugely experienced so i could be totally wrong
I totally disagree with this. It sounds like good advice, kill the one doing the most damage, but it is actually illogical. The ship doing you the most damage is usually the one that takes longest to kill, all the time of which you continue to take that damage.
The ships to kill first are the ones it is easiest to kill first, that are causing you damage. That doesn't necessarily mean shooting you; ships that are using some kind of electronic warfare are very dangerous too.
But every ship that you take out reduces the net amount of damage you are taking. Better to take out a ship that is causing 5% of that damage in a few seconds than taking three minutes to kill a ship that is causing you 20% of the damage.
tl;dr: Until you don't have to worry about it, kill:
Easily killed ew ships that are targeting you Easily killed other ships that are targeting you Hard to kill ew ships that are targeting you Hard to kill other ships that are targeting you Then pick something random that isn't and repeat from the top
__________________________________________________ Player Since 2005 Over 4000 hours logged
For ingame help and advice join channel 'Mentors'.
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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.06 22:54:00 -
[4]
but how do you quickly determine which ship is doing less or more damage in the heat of battle? is there something on the HUD somewhere i havn't seen yet? and while i'm thinking of it...how do you take fire (stop shooting) off of one ship and quickly transfer / start shooting another? i had all three targeted and was shooting each individually at one point. i did notice one ship was ALOT tougher so i managed to stop shooting at him by clicking the two little gun icons next to its target ( guess i got the first half of my question figured out)but i couldn't figure out how to direct that fire to another ship specifically. i just clicked on the ships target i wanted to shoot at and pressed the gun fire buttons and hoped it worked.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.09.06 23:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: VHERKER but how do you quickly determine which ship is doing less or more damage in the heat of battle?
Pro-tip 1: Some missions have "trigger ships." By this I mean that if you kill certain ships you will set off a new spawn of ships. Best way to spot a "trigger ship" is by looking at the names of the rats. Generally, the one odd rat that does not have a "sister" ship is the trigger. Kill everything else before killing it (FYI: watch your drones, they seem to have an affinity for "trigger ships")
Pro-tip 2: Check the bounties on said rats. Generally, the higher the bounty the more damage they deal. Also pay attention to the size of the bounties within each class. If a rat bounty is unusually high (ex. cruiser rat bounties are around 60k, but some have 256k bounties) it means it is special and has better defense/DPS and/or has some special ability.
Pro-tip 3: The threat that each ship poses depends entirely on what you are flying. If you are flying a battleship then your greatest threat will be the DPS dealers. Ergo, kill them first. If you are flying a HAC then your greatest threat will not the DPS dealers but the webbing/scamming frigates (half your tank is based on your speed)... so take out the frigates first.
Honestly, mission running is pretty simple. It just requires a bit of memorization and trial and error. You'll get the hang of it. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.09.07 01:20:00 -
[6]
What I think people are talking about here is damage/hp ratio.
Anyhow, here is my general kill order:
(1) Mission triggers: if you know what will trigger the next spawn (by having done the mission before or looking it up with google) leave that one to last.
(2) Things that are CC'ing you: crowd control such as a web or warp scrambler will either put you in range of things you don't want to be in range of, or prevent you from warping out if things get hairy. These die first unless there's something that you can down in almost no time at all.
(3) Once you're free to move about and shoot, you want to kill the thing with the highest "damage done to you" to "damage required to kill it" ratio first. This actually usually means smaller ships, since they are dramatically easier to kill. There may be an exception if your guns are too big to hit the smaller ships, giving them effectively more HP.
(2.5 - 3.5) Things that mess with your targetting: If things are using target range suppressors/tracking speed suppressors/electronic countermeasures on you, take a moment to consider what exactly it's doing. Is it interfering with your ability to do damage? Then place it high on your priority list. Is it not really doing anything? Ignore it.
Example: I am in a battleship with a targeting range of 80km, and the npcs around me are orbiting at (at most) 40 km. They're sepentis, so they have targeting dampeners on me. Each dampener removes 25% of my targeting range, and there are four of them. So my range is effectively (3/4)^4*80 = 25 km. Once anything webbing or scrambling me is dead (web/scramble requires within 20km, so no biggie) I want to do my best to get at least two of the dampening ships down. At that point, my range is (3/4)^2*80 = 45 km, so i can target everything that's left. The remaining two dampeners are not a priority, since they're no longer in my way. They can wait until i take down the higher damage/hp stuff.
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Ratnix Foisen
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Posted - 2010.09.07 01:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: VHERKER but how do you quickly determine which ship is doing less or more damage in the heat of battle? is there something on the HUD somewhere i havn't seen yet? and while i'm thinking of it...how do you take fire (stop shooting) off of one ship and quickly transfer / start shooting another?
You can pull up the Log window, that will show you all kinds of stuff including what ships are doing what damage to you. But that really isn't efficient. Afaik you can't target them from the log window.
To stop firing at a ship just hit F1...F2...whatever button you have your weapons assigned to. And if you aren't doing it, group your weapons together. Then just click on another ships icon and hit the button again once you can activate the weapon again.
Grouping
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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.07 01:59:00 -
[8]
cool thanks for all the help so far. some really good stuff to absorb. i love this game. dont know why i was away from it for so long.
had the pleasure of witnessing a massive battle today with 15 to 20 massive (made my frigate look like a dust spec) ships. pretty cool stuff. seriously sat there for 30 minutes just watching.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.09.07 04:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: VHERKER had the pleasure of witnessing a massive battle today with 15 to 20 massive (made my frigate look like a dust spec) ships. pretty cool stuff. seriously sat there for 30 minutes just watching.
15 to 20 isn't "massive." That's just a skirmish. Go out to 0.0 and witness an engagement between hundreds of players. Provided that the node doesn't crash/lag out it is something to behold. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.07 04:22:00 -
[10]
hundreds? serious? wow...looking foreward to the day i feel brave enough to venture into 0.0 :P
only memory i have of 0.0 was four years ago in my 10mil isk ship...warping in at 1am and podding back to the safety of 1.0 at 1:00:15 am
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.07 04:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 07/09/2010 04:39:27 usually in missions you sick your drones on the frigates while your main weapons (railguns/missiles/lazors) hit the bigger stuff.
In PvP, the order is more like ECM > Logistics > DPS > T1 Stuff.
Edit: Watch this. Pants-Creaming Stuff.
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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.07 05:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: AtheistOfFail Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 07/09/2010 04:39:27 usually in missions you sick your drones on the frigates while your main weapons (railguns/missiles/lazors) hit the bigger stuff.
In PvP, the order is more like ECM > Logistics > DPS > T1 Stuff.
Edit: Watch this. Pants-Creaming Stuff.
WOW!
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.07 11:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: VHERKER but how do you quickly determine which ship is doing less or more damage in the heat of battle? is there something on the HUD somewhere i havn't seen yet? and while i'm thinking of it...how do you take fire (stop shooting) off of one ship and quickly transfer / start shooting another? i had all three targeted and was shooting each individually at one point. i did notice one ship was ALOT tougher so i managed to stop shooting at him by clicking the two little gun icons next to its target ( guess i got the first half of my question figured out)but i couldn't figure out how to direct that fire to another ship specifically. i just clicked on the ships target i wanted to shoot at and pressed the gun fire buttons and hoped it worked.
You're talking about missions as far as I can see, in which case there's a site with all the info you need: eve survival.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.09.07 11:48:00 -
[14]
First things first.
You have been given a destroyer and told to kill three rats - and they killed you - it is because you were using short range weapons like blasters, auto cannon or pulse lasers.
What you want to do in your low level missions - is to Kite The Rats.
1) Fit Five long range guns. This would be the 150mm Rails, the "Medium" (they are Small (with an S) lasers named Medium something) Beam Lasers or Howitzers. This will get you the most range and hitting power. Leave the other 3 high slots blank or put something odd in them if you have PG/CPU left over after you put on some kind of a tank. Carry two kinds of Ammo - short range but powerful and long range but weaker. Start with the short range powerful ammo loaded - then change if the enemy is at range. If they are at range - you will have the time to change - if you start with the long range ammo and they are close - you won't have time to change.
2) Fit a good AB - like a Cold Gas Arc Jet. Use this to control the range of the engagement - if the mission dumps you in a vat of **** - AB your way out of it. Get out to the point where you are no longer in range of the rats but they are still within your range. Before the engagement - load EACH time of ammo, then right click on the weapon and do a show info. Look up their Optimal range and their Fall Off range in the attributes. Those two together are the practical range you can fight at. Beyond that you won't be getting enough hits to matter. Train Trajectory Analysis to increase your fall off range. If the enemy is still out ranging you - then you need a bigger ship or a better tank.
3) When you start the engagement, approach the enemy until they begin blinking - then turn away and let them chase you. This is called Kiting the enemy. Let them come up on you and kill them as they come in range. Note that as you approach them you can steer your course so that, if one of them is separate from the others, this is the one you want to pick off first. If you are taking damage - even at range - then read the damage reports as they will tell you which ship hit you. Note how much damage they did. If you can control the engagement - you can get out of range of this ship - and whittle down the numbers of the others before re-engaging it. Mostly, for missions you are using a destroyer on ... this isn't a problem. Be aware of where your course is taking you - and have a warp out destination in mind - start heading towards that object (that is align yourself towards it) and be ready to warp before your damage gets critical. Don't wait until you are in hull.
4) As you kite the rats along - if there are a mix of bigger and faster ships - the smaller faster ones will begin leaving the others behind. These usually are frigates while the others are destroyers. With you controlling the range of the engagement, you can draw these faster, smaller ships off and kill them first, then deal with the bigger ones. Now here - there is simply some experience involved in judging what types of ships you are fighting. The rats often use ships that are just like regular ships in appearance. So - looking at them can show you what they are. In time, you will learn to recognize the names the rats give them - and which player ship type that corresponds to.
5) Now - ships that are using a special module on you - will have a little symbol in the right most column of their Overview listing. If you see any little symbols over there - pay special attention to them. Put your pointer over that symbol and the game will tell you what it is for. You need to learn what each of these does and how much it is going to hurt you. There is also a little count down bar that will appear over the round center of your HUD if you are being jammed in some way. If you see that - look for the little symbol of the ship that is doing it. Some don't hurt others do.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.07 15:31:00 -
[15]
Wow! Toshiro thanks...alot to absorb there. they did mention "kiting" in the mission briefing but i couldn't put it all together. I knew what kiting meant but didn't realize how to effectively do this in EVE. Especially with a destroyer. all i'd been flying up to that point was frigates.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.07 20:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 07/09/2010 20:03:10
Originally by: VHERKER hundreds? serious? wow...looking foreward to the day i feel brave enough to venture into 0.0 :P
A small skirmish (moderators: not a killmail!): http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7481565
Battle reports: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1376795&page=1#7
I mainly bookmarked this one because of the sheer number of Drakes, considering the number of anti-Caldari posts you can find.
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Sky Mart
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Posted - 2010.09.07 22:35:00 -
[17]
When I do missions I basically kill the smallest ships first....but then I can tank a lot of battleships with my fit with no problem but the small ships like to web which kills my "speed" tank so smalls ships must go based on my shiptype.
The most important thing to remember in missions is....live to fight another day...if your close on sheilds warp out and back and do it again....even if to start with it is kill 1 ship and run....when you come back your 1 ship less left to kill. This tactic can make up for a lot in lack of skills to tank while you train up. Loosing 1 ship though can be a huge setback ISK wise so don't be afraid to run and come back. There are many missions I use to kill most of a wave run...come back in and finish it off.
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.09.08 01:53:00 -
[18]
given that you are minmatar I'm going to assume you were doing the same one I just did a few days ago.
I used a rifter with 3 autocannons that I picked up on previous missions (have a slight edge over the plain t1 ones the agent gives you) with hmmm I don't remember the mids, had the afterburner, shield booster (NOT the civilian one) and civilian explosive hardener (or maybe the point, don't remember if they said you needed it or not), my lows were 2x overdrives and civilian damage control.
I came in killed one of the trash frigs and realized I was taking a bunch of damage and was low on cap so I hit the afterburner and ran away a bit, then I separated the 200k frig and the other trash frig and went in and took out the 200k boss frig and warped out and turned it in.
used keep at range rather than orbit, but yes switching to arty and kiting would probably be an even better plan.
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Kezzle
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Posted - 2010.09.08 08:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sky Mart When I do missions I basically kill the smallest ships first....but then I can tank a lot of battleships with my fit with no problem but the small ships like to web which kills my "speed" tank so smalls ships must go based on my shiptype.
The most important thing to remember in missions is....live to fight another day...if your close on sheilds warp out and back and do it again....even if to start with it is kill 1 ship and run....when you come back your 1 ship less left to kill...
And one less ship shooting at you. Even if you can't kill something on your first run, if you've done any damage before bugging out, you have a better chance of killing that ship in your next hit-before-running.
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Kilrayn
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Posted - 2010.09.08 17:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: VHERKER but how do you quickly determine which ship is doing less or more damage in the heat of battle? ...
Good thinking, but there is a better way to go about it.
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
The best way is to research BEFORE you head in. These mission guides have helped me tremendously with understanding what I have to do, and more importantly for me, how to set up my tank so I don't lose my mission runner (Dominix)
Hope this helps some.
o7
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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.09 04:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sky Mart When I do missions I basically kill the smallest ships first....but then I can tank a lot of battleships with my fit with no problem but the small ships like to web which kills my "speed" tank so smalls ships must go based on my shiptype.
The most important thing to remember in missions is....live to fight another day...if your close on sheilds warp out and back and do it again....even if to start with it is kill 1 ship and run....when you come back your 1 ship less left to kill. This tactic can make up for a lot in lack of skills to tank while you train up. Loosing 1 ship though can be a huge setback ISK wise so don't be afraid to run and come back. There are many missions I use to kill most of a wave run...come back in and finish it off.
good advice i think. im stubborn though so it might take me a few ships for this to sink in :P
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.09.09 17:39:00 -
[22]
I tend to think of it like the Missions in the old MechAssault game for the Xbox. See, in that game everybody used the same class of weapons, be it a small little scout tank, up to the huge Atlas battlemech. Now granted, the Atlas could carry more, but still, 5 scout tanks could chew you up just as fast as one Atlas. The thing was, it took you far less time to kill the 5 scout tanks.
So, in Eve terms... (This also assumes you know proper trigger management, always save trigger ships for last (except in special instances)
1st target is again any warp scrambler/disruptor. As small as these may be, they will prevent your escape making them always the highest priority targets.
After those, I tend to let my drones word on any frigates, while I pop Cruisers, then Battlecruisers, finally any battleships left. That seems to work fiarly well.
As for those special circumstances... I was running a hi sec exploration site in a Drake. An anoying Zealot warped in, trying to steal the site. I knew i could tank a lot more DPS than the Zealot, so I started purposely poppingthe trigger ships. a minute later, the zealot had run, and I was easily tanking the large number of spawns. I ended up getting a nice implant out of the site from a faction spwan.
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Duvida
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:05:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Duvida on 09/09/2010 19:05:51 "If it dies fast, it dies first" I usually go after the frigates first, esp the warp scrambling or webbing ships, then the other electronic warfare frigates. Drones are a big help here as once they've got the lock on the ship, even if you get your targeting blocked after that, they'll still kill them.
Also, it removes some of the firepower targetting you more quickly. Learning... |
Keras Authion
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:29:00 -
[24]
In some missions you might see enemies using different weapons. In these you can prioritize the enemies that hurt you most by looking at the weapons they use. For example if you have a low EM resist and there are 2 cruisers with lasers and 2 with blasters, you know that the laser ships will hurt more.
Also don't be afraid to warping out. If you get low on tank (you see it's going to break shortly), GTFO, dock, repair, reload and adjust your resists if needed. With some luck the rat won't have recovered fully when you get back and you can wear it out eventually. Even if it has, you can pick a weaker target and lower the incoming DPS little by little until you can destroy it. Obviously it's not the optimal way, but it gets the job done in a pinch.
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VHERKER
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Posted - 2010.09.10 02:56:00 -
[25]
Thanks everyone...i appreciate all the feedback. some really good stuff. think i'm starting to get the hang of it. think its just going to take some time. at first i tended to panick alot when i saw that sheild turning red faster than i could figure out what to shoot at. getting a bit more relaxed and finding it easier. learned to have a target set to warp to before going into battle as well. think its time to drop into lower security places and test my nice shiny new destroyer.
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