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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.09 09:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Reposting from a previous version of this thread:
To fix AFs: ....
Most of that is too utopian and simply won't happen, I don't think. I think that swapping slots around and juicing CPU/Grid etc would be fine in an overall AF rebalance, but CCP is almost certainly not going to do that anytime soon. The rocket fixes are finally supposed to appear on Sisi next week (this one year after CCP said they would be looking at them after Dominion ) so how long do you think CCP would take to do a general rebalance on AFs? If we were very lucky, we'd get them in 2015.
No, the best thing for AFs would be to leave them as they are and simply lower the base material/building requirements, so that they ended up with an average price of 6 to 10 million ISK.
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Ascari d'Vivo
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Posted - 2010.09.09 13:03:00 -
[32]
I would like to see the Assaultships more in the role of a Vanguard ship, flying ahead of the fleet, catching and attacking other light ships.
I would vote for an - role bonus, +2 Warp strenght - (race) frigatte bonus, reduce stasis webifier effect 10% / level
With this, Assaultships could disengage more easily from an bigger enemy. It could maybe help them to build up solo-pvp. And it is useful for the role of the heavy tackler.
A bit tweaking in slot layout and rocket mechanics mandatory.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.09.09 14:30:00 -
[33]
I think they should do one of the following:
I think they should make them slower, but make them a HARD counter to interceptors. I'm talking 90% web daredevil stuff. When I read about how the assault ships are a "heavy" frigate I see it as a support ship for large ships. To protect them against small/fast craft.
Make them a utility frigate. Just give them a ton of slots, let them be the heavy wildcard. 3 target paints, multiple points, tracking computers, etc. This may sound dumb but honestly there just isn't a role for them to be other than HEAVY tackle. With crystals the hawk can push over 200 omni DPS tank. For a frigate this is the definition of heavy tackle and every one says the hawk blows (and it does). So either make them INSANELY heavy or remove them completely.
My 2 cents. But I am ******ed.
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rens observer
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Posted - 2010.09.09 14:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ascari d'Vivo I would like to see the Assaultships more in the role of a Vanguard ship, flying ahead of the fleet, catching and attacking other light ships.
I would vote for an - role bonus, +2 Warp strenght snip...
It could maybe help them to build up solo-pvp.
Hahahahahahahahaha ! Utterly clueless. I can't begin to explain how tragically stupid this idea is, you would in fact completely destroy solo and and probably small gang pvp in lowsec, as nearly everyone and their dog would be flying (almost) unscrammable ships.
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.10 07:06:00 -
[35]
More slots !!!!!! Like the man said, it is a good idea.
I did the EFT a Retribution with more slots just has MWD and Scram but has to lose a DMG mod for the tackle so he will have to use something else...It makes total sense.
Make Frigs like in RL the Ewar specialists which is what tacklers are, except it would allow them to live a bit longer, Imagine TD on a Retr so tha the drones would have to kill the guy, more a duel all the while If you get Scrammed/webb`d you are dead. So advantage just gets smaller but its still there.
More slots more tough choices, maybe go from fitting a MSE to SSE and losing 1/2 EHP for another Tackle Mod like Painter/TD or Damp. -------------------------------------------------- "If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed" -Me
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Jekyl Eraser
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Posted - 2010.09.10 11:17:00 -
[36]
Maybe bubble immunity and immunity to scambler MWD shutdown
Would allow AF:s to tackle/fight at close range and scout at 0.0
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:36:00 -
[37]
My proposal:
Jaguar: 5% bonus to TP effectiveness (not really useful, but this ship isn't very badly in need of a boost) Wolf: 5% bonus to falloff Ishkur: 5% bonus to drone speed (not really useful, but this ship isn't very badly in need of a boost) Enyo: 5% bonus to scram range Vengeance: 10% bonus to rocket flight time Retribution: 10% bonus to capacitor amount Harpy: 5% bonus to CPU Hawk: 5% bonus to power grid
But of course I am wrong. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.11 17:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zilberfrid My proposal:
Jaguar: 5% bonus to TP effectiveness (not really useful, but this ship isn't very badly in need of a boost) Wolf: 5% bonus to falloff Ishkur: 5% bonus to drone speed (not really useful, but this ship isn't very badly in need of a boost) Enyo: 5% bonus to scram range Vengeance: 10% bonus to rocket flight time Retribution: 10% bonus to capacitor amount Harpy: 5% bonus to CPU Hawk: 5% bonus to power grid
But of course I am wrong.
You very definitely are wrong. TP bonus to a Jag?????? Falloff bonus to a Wolf that already has a falloff bonus???? 5% Drones speed bonus to an Ishkur that is usually using light drones????? Scram range bonus to an Enyo that could only use it with rails, and even then would fail horribly to the first overloaded web frigate that came along. The Retri already has a cap bonus, you know?
The only useful ones I see are the Vengeance, Harpy and Hawk, which says to me you haven't flown much else but them.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.09.12 16:30:00 -
[39]
TP and drone speed bonus are towards arguably the strongest AF's already.
The retri already has a cap bonus to lasers, this would be to total capacitor.
Doubling the wolf's falloff bonus would make the AC's more interesting.
The bonus to the enyo would help it as a heavy tackler, it clearly needs some role, this one I would think an interesting one. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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Artemis Ahab
Caldari The Inf1dels En Garde
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Posted - 2010.09.12 19:32:00 -
[40]
I dunno, 25% faster light drones? Makes it easier for them to keep up with inty's, but that's the only useful thing about a bonus like that (though if they can keep up with dram's then that would make them OP of course, we can't have anything threatening THAT now can we? )
Never flown the wolf, so I can't really comment on that. How about turning the jag into a mini vaga and the wolf into a mini muninn, ie long range ac's and arty's respectively, as it would help differentiate them?
Cap bonus on retri? It'll need more than that unless they fix it's one midslot. As it stands now, I just use an AC vengeance. Hopefully I have to train rockets after they fix them. Though I will miss that utility slot
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.12 21:38:00 -
[41]
Give them good bonuses for AB and perhaps even penalties for MWD.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Artemis Ahab
Caldari The Inf1dels En Garde
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Posted - 2010.09.12 21:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Give them good bonuses for AB and perhaps even penalties for MWD.
Yeah, cau variety is bad, mmk?
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:54:00 -
[43]
After reading everyone's suggestions I want to refine my 2 ideas. (The HEAVY anti-frigate/inty and utility)
Take the hawk for example, give it a 0 DRF and enough powergrid to be fit with SMLs. What you would have is a pretty scary anti-frig/Inty platform without really doing much else.
I am sure you could do something alot like it for the other by ramping up their tracking to just stupid levels. I think it should strike fear in frigate/inty/stealth bomber pilots to see an assault frigate. Just my idea though.
But a frigate with 8 mid slots would be cool to :)
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Admiral Hawke
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.13 18:19:00 -
[44]
Give Retribution one more mid slot...
...Problem solved.
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Proxyyyy
Caldari Chaotic Tranquility
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Posted - 2010.09.13 18:50:00 -
[45]
Assault frigates are not for fleets(interceptors are and t1 frigates to a lesser extent). Also, they are'nt useless;
Their role is to tank and do damage (simple). Speed is not a large part of their function and is the role of interceptors. A ab boost can only work if you make it excessive and if you do, they then become overpowered (bringing back, old skool nano-age hacs, in a way)
They p much excel at quad size and solo pvp.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2010.09.13 20:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kail Storm Bomber, Hawk wont be OP after Rockets because it stil lcant fit a MWD well with any real buffer tank.
And if it is, it has had long enough to be worst in game its time it was Best.
Hawk has plus's to Shield Boosters you aren't supposed to buffer tank them.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:33:00 -
[47]
I want to see assault frigates get something completely new, that no other ship class has: EWar resistance.
Give them a 10% resistance per level of AF. At level 5, they have 50% resistance to webs, neuts, painters, ecm, etc., making this kind of EWar less effective and vastly helping their role as a heavy tackler. These are supposed to be tough frigates, hard to shake off, but right now they're not. Fix Rockets in '08 '09 2010 2011 2012?! |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.09.15 04:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zyress
Originally by: Kail Storm Bomber, Hawk wont be OP after Rockets because it stil lcant fit a MWD well with any real buffer tank.
And if it is, it has had long enough to be worst in game its time it was Best.
Hawk has plus's to Shield Boosters you aren't supposed to buffer tank them.
Unfortunately, you need a web to apply rocket damage and keep your targets in range. This will likely be true even after the rocket "fix", although you probably will only need one web instead of two.
If you have a web, and you want a shield booster as well, then you have a problem. A shield booster needs a cap booster. That leaves you with one slot for speed and scram, and I don't know of any module that does both things at once.
Sure, you can run with just a MWD and Scram. I don't know about you, but a slow ass ship like the Hawk with just a MWD and Scram... Doesn't sound like it can keep anything around long enough to apply enough of that anemic damage to the target and kill it.
You CAN perma run a booster, web, scram, and afterburner if you get full juice from a Nos and stick a capacitor flux coil in the lows, but a neut renders you worthless very quickly.
A buffer doesn't have those problems. On the Hawk, dropping on a medium extender adds a good amount of EHP and a respectable recharge as well. The web greatly increases your chances of being able to engage a target and actually do something with it.
If the Hawk is supposed to be a viable shield boosting ship then it needs a significant bonus to cap usage as well, so that it can run a small booster without needing to rely so heavily on cap boosters. Fix Rockets in '08 '09 2010 2011 2012?! |
Trinity Parish
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Posted - 2010.09.15 17:46:00 -
[49]
The Afterburner buff was left out or put on hold because it totaly screwed up the agility of the AF's when it came in to play.
It had nothing to do with Rockets being made even worse that they are now.
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Farganth
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Posted - 2010.09.18 14:18:00 -
[50]
What i dont undersantd is, if ccp is unable to fix their ships, why at least not balance the ship prices?... a wolf / jaguar price is equal to a hurricane... It would be better to just balance those ships in a fair way, but seeing that ccp is only worried on launch new features that push back the already unfixed game makes me think that this is a caothical game that eventually will collapse.
Fly safe poeple!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.18 18:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Trinity Parish The Afterburner buff was left out or put on hold because it totaly screwed up the agility of the AF's when it came in to play...
Huh? Agility was not affected more than fitting a prop mod does now, perhaps you mean the unfortunate cases where oversized ABs were used? Been said before; AB buff was scrapped because it didn't solve CCPs problem (fixing AFs) as it benefited some and did nada for the rest.
Originally by: Farganth What i dont undersantd is, if ccp is unable to fix their ships, why at least not balance the ship prices?...
T2 ship prices are entirely in the hands of us the players. AFs range from 12M-22M even though their material costs are largely the same. Demand is high for the usable (read: not crappy) AFs and thus vendors squeeze as much as they can out of their clients
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.09.18 19:34:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Templar Dane on 18/09/2010 19:36:00
Originally by: Aerilis AF resists are standard T2 resists, doubt CCP will mess with those.
AB bonus is awesome and I hope they do it.
The idea about tp/web reduction is kinda cool and original. AB boosted AF's would be able to cut through the tackle of heavier fleets relatively unaffected, would be cool.
AB bonus was crap because the bad AFs weren't made any better, while the good AFs got that much better than the rest.
Edit
Teehee, lets just give AFs big fitting reductions and bonuses for XL weapons.
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Tera Mcbitchypants
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Posted - 2010.09.19 04:27:00 -
[53]
This whole thread just goes to show its populated by new players who do not understand the role of a frig. Let me explane.
The t1 frig is a starting point. Its not ment to solo larger ships. There a tactical tool. Fast hard to hit. Fast locking can be fitted with a scram or rupter. They can hold someone for a time while big guns are pulled in. There sig raitus makes them almost immune to most heavy weapons. You can fit one out to deal 150 dps for 5 mil. So a standard cruiser does 300 dps and cost 20 mil with rigs. So figure 2 frigs vs 1 cruiser 10 mil vs 20 mil. Thats a 50% gain on the isk war.
If you are confused about the role your frig should play just look at there t2 varity.
Assult ships are ment for killing other frigs. Thats there whole design and point.
Intersepters are faster than you lock faster and can point from a greater distance
Scanners are scanners
Stealth Bombers and pain in a can.
Electronic attach craft are like flying an erectile disfunction. They take away your abilty to fight back and can ruin all your fun.
For those that dont have t2 well those are all mining boats move up to a barge.
This said I have been pvping for over a year at this point and I have to admit. I am more afraid of 10 well fitted and used t1 frigs than 10 faction battleships. They dont need buffed. If anything they need nerfed like the dramial or the Slicer whos only effective counter other than another frig is a heavy neut.
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Hidden Snake
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.09.19 11:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tera Mc*****ypants This whole thread just goes to show its populated by new players who do not understand the role of a frig. Let me explane.
The t1 frig is a starting point. Its not ment to solo larger ships. There a tactical tool. Fast hard to hit. Fast locking can be fitted with a scram or rupter. They can hold someone for a time while big guns are pulled in. There sig raitus makes them almost immune to most heavy weapons. You can fit one out to deal 150 dps for 5 mil. So a standard cruiser does 300 dps and cost 20 mil with rigs. So figure 2 frigs vs 1 cruiser 10 mil vs 20 mil. Thats a 50% gain on the isk war.
If you are confused about the role your frig should play just look at there t2 varity.
Assult ships are ment for killing other frigs. Thats there whole design and point.
Intersepters are faster than you lock faster and can point from a greater distance
Scanners are scanners
Stealth Bombers and pain in a can.
Electronic attach craft are like flying an erectile disfunction. They take away your abilty to fight back and can ruin all your fun.
For those that dont have t2 well those are all mining boats move up to a barge.
This said I have been pvping for over a year at this point and I have to admit. I am more afraid of 10 well fitted and used t1 frigs than 10 faction battleships. They dont need buffed. If anything they need nerfed like the dramial or the Slicer whos only effective counter other than another frig is a heavy neut.
u probably played a lot of wow ... this is eve ...rifter can kill a cruiser if properly piloted
problem is t1 frigs are so fun to fly ....
"There is no honor in war" |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.20 08:59:00 -
[55]
I fly a a Ishkur and the only thing it needs a AB buff (as the one that was already in the pipe...).
Give them the bonus for AB, perhaps penalties for MWD, so that they become somewhat resilient to normal Frigate threats (they are assault frigs after all). Basically meaning that webs and scrams don't work well enough to counter them. For T1 frigs the webs and scrams are pretty much death.
Make them into close-range killers. YOU NEED TO GET CLOSE idea.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:00:00 -
[56]
I like Andrea's idea of e-war resistance, specifically to webs/neuts. It's sad that a cruiser with a medium neut can pretty much disable most assault frigs. They're supposed to be resilient/sturdy little things that are at the front of an assault taking a fair beating whilst able to dish out some of their own.
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Gumlin31
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Posted - 2010.09.20 13:03:00 -
[57]
As a wolf pilot myself, I know an AB buff would be huge since I can permarun my ab/scram setup and even when I turn on my SAR II, I can still go for 42 secs or over a minute with nos on. However, I have seen that the most effective fit for gang roaming seems to be mwd/scram. I will explain.
I can't speak for other AFs but in gangs my role has been, primarily anti-frigate/ heavy tackle. We jump into an enemy and I burst my mwd to the target to scram him while an inty or other gets the initial disruptor point on them. Once I've got them, 99% of the time, they're doomed. In fact, in the last 2 weeks since I've been doing this, the only times I lost tackle was a falcon jamming me and running off and when a third party blob jumped in on a battle I was in. Both happened just yesterday.
Now, you might say that's great and I'm fulfilling my role perfectly but in actuality, I lose quite a bit when I run an mwd. I'm no longer able to perma run even with mwd off and my repair time is nil.
So something like 15% or 20% boost to AB per assault ship skill level would, at least for wolf, be awesome. I won't be as fast as inty still but I won't be slow as hell in my AB setup. Besides, something has to be good with an AB setup, might as well be the T2 frigs.
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Farganth
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Posted - 2010.09.25 11:25:00 -
[58]
Well... wolf have low cpu... 2 middles... Thats not bad in terms of balancing, but his strong points are not pretty competetive.
What i hate most is that one year ago i buried the hope on rockets... and now they "seem" to at least look at it. I hope this will not happen a second time to me with AF when i abandon it due lack of competitive and then appears DEVs 2 years later and corrects it...
FLy safe people!
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.09.25 22:07:00 -
[59]
immunity to neuts is all I'd ask for
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Finshraira
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.02 07:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: VanNostrum immunity to neuts is all I'd ask for
i like where your going with this. med to heavy resists to what can cause issues to other frigates!
reduced neut/web/pain/ecm?/est against some AF, others may have heavy armor, or fast speeds, or maybe extremely powerful guns?
From what i have read so far, i must agree all AF cant use the same buff, yet it may work if different ships got different buffs.
Ships like a Retribution may have reduction in ECM, turret disruption effects and have super buffed guns to make up for only having one med slot.
Ships like the Vengeance would have reduced web and pain effects, making them heavy tacklers with strong defenses.
i have not flown other races but this could work? maybe? |
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