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Syekuda
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 13:59:00 -
[1]
Going straight to the point, it's called spalling. If you don't know what is it then follow the link to the wikipedia page. It will tell you what is it exactly.
I ain't going to publish this on the features and ideas cause it's not an idea for Eve-Online but I wanted to know your opinion on this if it possible to include it in Eve.
I mean, space is not empty per say so our ships could come across some type of debris in space. Theres also the fact when ships are shooting at each other there is some kind of stress involved.
I personally believe it should be possible to "create" a damage system (spalling) on our ships ? Would be wierd to see a heavy tanked ship not being able to use x function like certain module because it became damage because of spalling.
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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:02:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Syekuda I ain't going to publish this on the features and ideas cause it's not an idea for Eve-Online but I wanted to know your opinion on this if it possible to include it in Eve.
Everything is possible. The question is just why? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Lonzo Kincaid
Black Bands
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Wiki can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact
So you're refering to Kinetic damage? ----------------------
Hope that they'll make this game fun again is the only reason i still play. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/09/2010 14:31:25
We already sort of have that (at least the second part). It's called however "module (heat) damage" and the mode of usage for modules that allows it to happen is enabled by the "thermodynamics" skill. They also get damaged the same way every time damage passes shields and armor and you start taking structure damage.
As for the first part, what would be the point ? Just random "heat damage" applied to the ship just because it's in a certain area of space or what ? Or maybe "heat damage" inflicting weapons that bypass shield/armor to some degree ? Or what exactly ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid
Originally by: Wiki can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact
So you're refering to Kinetic damage?
No it is different in the way that...
Well...
Ima let the OP explain it, cause it sounds like kinetic!
-- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
Lonzo Kincaid
Black Bands
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid
Originally by: Wiki can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact
So you're refering to Kinetic damage?
No it is different in the way that...
Well...
Ima let the OP explain it, cause it sounds like kinetic!
Actually it looks like the result of a mix of Kinetic and Explosive. I've read quite a bit into this part previously.
You could just rationalise it in game as different levels of protection against spalling in your explosive and kinetic resistances. ----------------------
Hope that they'll make this game fun again is the only reason i still play. |
Axemaster
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:34:00 -
[7]
This is already present in some extent, when you are below 25% structure, some damage leaks to your modules. Tbh though, I think any targeted or random module damage introduces an unnecessary level of complexity, for little gain (an moar lag).
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:56:00 -
[8]
I think this is already adequately represented in the simplest terms - your armour being depleted faster than it can be repaired. The combination of damage types and the ability of your nanites/repper drones to re-enforce weak spots is covered by the damage vs resist vs tank calculations already in play. I'm not saying it isn't nice to have more detail and more random but in this case its already alive and kicking.
If you were proposing that on certain occasions damage can be irreparable due to this kind of effect and can leave weak spots or faults in armour plates or hulls etc that could be susceptible in the future that'd be cool. Or in game terms, modules like armour plating being, over time, depleted by repeated damage and repair and requiring renewal in the form of a replacement part or requiring the player to actively choose to keep using it in a reduced effectiveness consideration, I'd welcome it.
In fact I would welcome any kind of component ageing and decay through use and wear and tear complexity beyond what we have now. Especially if that were mitigated by ammo types designed specifically to damage components or knock them off-line.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.09.10 15:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid
Originally by: Wiki can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact
So you're refering to Kinetic damage?
No it is different in the way that...
Well...
Ima let the OP explain it, cause it sounds like kinetic!
Sweet, I get to be the uber-nerd on the internet twice today.
Explosive damage is actually a type of kinetic damage.
Thermic is not actually a word, and what it's referring to is actually a type of EM damage.
But yeah, even with the "we already have redundant damage types so that we have enough to make the game balance practical", spalling is a damage 'type' in the sense of 'pattern', not in the sense of 'source'. It's a damage type in the sense of "canyon vs. crater", not in the sense of "erosion vs. meteor impact".
Making ships suffer constant kinetic damage from space debris would be kind of neat, but it would also screw over people that are forced to leave their ships floating in space (cap pilots). So I don't know if it's really practical from a balance standpoint.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.10 15:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard Long amount of cool info!
Wouldn't explosive be a mix of Kinetic and Thermal.
I mean it is super heated shrapnal hitting your ship, seems pretty kin/thrm to me!
See what we have done now CCP is gonna have to rebalence!
-- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:20:00 -
[11]
There are already plenty of damage types to worry about, and that sounds like a combination of kinetic/explosive to me. ...in bed. |
Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:24:00 -
[12]
Essentially what you are talking about is shrapnel. As I understand it, spall (a noun) can be generated by many sources, but is a "cloud" of particles or chunks of materials ablated from a larger source, like a ship's hull.
This is exactly the kind of thing that fits EvE's spreadsheet style of damage totals.
Example: player A shoots Player B with Garde II causing X heat damage. Player B has a thermal shield hardener which mitigates X damage --> X final damage taken for that particular hit factoring in transversal, range, and all that normal stuff.
Spall is potentially generated by X final damage that leads to some portion of matter being cast off into space. In the case of shield damage, perhaps no spall is generated at all, or some form of EM spall. In the case of armor damage, it is easier to envision metal fragments being dislodged from the Rolled Titanium Plate (for example). So it's like indirect splash damage, and the "cloud" of spall would have it's own velocity, range, and time-to-live/dissipation factors to calculate it's potential damage.
To answer the OP : this is a fantastic concept that all the spreadsheet aficionados would rapidly embrace. It is also in keeping with the tradition in EvE that intelligence is a much needed commodity to survive and win.
Good concept!!!
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean Stuff
3/10
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Taser Monkey
Against All Asteroids
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Boltorano
Originally by: Urgg Boolean Stuff
3/10
3?? Aren't you giving him credit for a stealth snipe-ship-fit-only-game whine?
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Nomad Storm
The Wandering Path
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:09:00 -
[15]
This would at least make sense if you were going for realism but before that you will have to explain why the armor must but burned completely off ship before its hull is touched.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 10/09/2010 17:11:17 shields prevent spalling
how about "EGO?"
taunting a pilot can cause emotional damage.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:11:00 -
[17]
OP found a cool word and wanted to show the world that he had, in fact, learned about said word.
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Draku Rykenen
Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:12:00 -
[18]
World War II Online: Battleground Europe has a complex damage model that includes spalling. on vehicles a collection of critical components are "rendered" separately and damage is calculated based on speed of the projectile, explosive, armor penetrating or other characteristics of the round, angle of impact, armor thickness armor slope and other such exotic variables.
It's awesome, but it is a major load of servers as well. I don't think it would easy to mesh such a system in to EVE tbh.
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SFM Hobb3s
Up2-NoGood Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:14:00 -
[19]
I'd love it if posting in local generated random overheating damage to your modules.
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Taser Monkey
Against All Asteroids
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Taser Monkey on 10/09/2010 17:21:10
Originally by: Atticus Fynch Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 10/09/2010 17:11:17 shields prevent spalling
how about "EGO?"
taunting a pilot can cause emotional damage.
I'd like to see a classic doomsday style weapon. When fired the EGO weapon will do emotional damage to all hostile pilots on grid resulting in the listening of a lot of Goth Emo music, the feeling of down and no will to fight or even live, resulting in a victory for the non-Emo pilots who were able to warp off, log off or simply were too mature not to turn into a 13 year old girl (which would be the minority of pilots as most are em*****ed anyway).
Originally by: SFM Hobb3s I'd love it if posting in local generated random overheating damage to your modules.
ONLY IF THE USE OF CAPS LOCK PROTECTS YOU FROM SAID DAMAGE, BECAUSE CAPS LOCK IS FOR KEWL AND CRUISE CONTROL.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.10 17:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marko Riva OP found a cool word and wanted to show the world that he had, in fact, learned about said word.
the problem with that is that its not even a cool world, it just looks like woll smoth / spengbab trying to write 'spelling'
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Dr Morbios
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall If you were proposing that on certain occasions damage can be irreparable due to this kind of effect and can leave weak spots or faults in armour plates or hulls etc that could be susceptible in the future that'd be cool. Or in game terms, modules like armour plating being, over time, depleted by repeated damage and repair and requiring renewal in the form of a replacement part or requiring the player to actively choose to keep using it in a reduced effectiveness consideration, I'd welcome it.
In fact I would welcome any kind of component ageing and decay through use and wear and tear complexity beyond what we have now. Especially if that were mitigated by ammo types designed specifically to damage components or knock them off-line.
No thanks. Too much like the ripoff scam MMO I came from: Entropia Universe. They have the items there decay and eventually have to be replaced, and it costs the players insane amounts of money. REAL money. You can easily blow several years worth of EVE subscription money in like an hour. No Frikkin' thanks. I like it here the way it is.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.09.10 18:46:00 -
[23]
This is like calling "burning" a new type of damage.
Its an obvious effect of several of our current damage types.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dr Morbios
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall If you were proposing that on certain occasions damage can be irreparable due to this kind of effect and can leave weak spots or faults in armour plates or hulls etc that could be susceptible in the future that'd be cool. Or in game terms, modules like armour plating being, over time, depleted by repeated damage and repair and requiring renewal in the form of a replacement part or requiring the player to actively choose to keep using it in a reduced effectiveness consideration, I'd welcome it.
In fact I would welcome any kind of component ageing and decay through use and wear and tear complexity beyond what we have now. Especially if that were mitigated by ammo types designed specifically to damage components or knock them off-line.
No thanks. Too much like the ripoff scam MMO I came from: Entropia Universe. They have the items there decay and eventually have to be replaced, and it costs the players insane amounts of money. REAL money. You can easily blow several years worth of EVE subscription money in like an hour. No Frikkin' thanks. I like it here the way it is.
Easy tiger!
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2010.09.10 20:23:00 -
[25]
CCP needs to fix the damage types they have before they add new ones. First of all Lasers should be strongest against armor and weak vs. shields. Not the way it is now. Second, all missiles should do 3 types of damage, Kinetic, Explosive and Heat at the same time, and EM missiles and projectiles shouldn't even exist. Third Blasters and Railguns should reverse the types of damage that the shells do, it's written right into their descriptions. I.E. Blasters do 20 THM and 16 KIN while Railguns do 20 KIN and 16 THM.
There is plenty more I can add to this, but that is just a taste as to why there doesn't need to be a new damage type. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2010.09.11 04:41:00 -
[26]
Really..? No takers on my damage type observations? Must be a slow night on the forums, or everyone agrees with me. Yeah everyone just agrees with me. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.09.11 05:39:00 -
[27]
"i'm on a mac"
/troll
Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:09:00 -
[28]
I died from space debris... normally a domi can't catch a vaga, but when said vaga crashes into space debris (in an asteroid belt) it lets the domi get him Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid
Originally by: Wiki can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact
So you're refering to Kinetic damage?
Actually minmatar... their initial explosive tech 2 damage is supplemented with kinetic impact shock wave.
Spalling naturally occurs in the Republic ships, as their pilots continue to trust in duct(wrong) nano tape.
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Aoshi Yamura
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:48:00 -
[30]
Spalling is a byproduct of kinetic force being applied to armor.
Take a soft cookie and poke your finger into one side. If you look at the other side, you'll notice cracks and tears appear in the surface of the cookie as your finger goes through to the other side. Apply that to the immense amount of force that occurs when a sabot dart fired from a tank hits another tank. The inner surface of the armor "shatters" into molten goblets that kill/injure the crew inside the tank.
TLDR: spalling would be a byproduct of kinetic damage, not a damage all its own.
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