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Call Rollard
Target Lockers
1
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Posted - 2012.07.29 16:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eve is a good game, especially the corporation and alliance side of stuff, HOWEVER I see a problem.
However, there has been this issue many corps often get, and its getting more and more common and even causes big corps to close down.
I run a corporation and I'm CEO. I've ran this corp fine, recruiting members and I check them for security. They are fine. But I had an issue when a player in my corp suddenly became a pirate and started shooting my corp members. CONCORD won't even help if a corp member gets attacked by another corp member in high sec and the pilot wont lose security at high or low sec.
These issues often make corps close down, even API checks are not enough because a corp member suddenly becomes a pirate when you dont even know.
However, if your in an alliance. An alliance member is not allowed to attack another alliance member without CONCORD shooting them.
My issue I'm trying to say is this: I think that there should be an option to allow corp members to shoot each other but also be able to turn that feature off. This means if a corp wants to do PvP against another corp member, they can shoot each other freely for PvP practice.
In short. Put an corp member engagment turn off and on button. |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
240
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Posted - 2012.07.29 18:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sounds reasonable though if you have these types of problems, you need to keep a closer eye on your members. Also, that doesn't constitute piracy. That falls under the espionage category. The Troll is trolling. |
Call Rollard
Target Lockers
1
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Posted - 2012.07.29 19:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:Sounds reasonable though if you have these types of problems, you need to keep a closer eye on your members. Also, that doesn't constitute piracy. That falls under the espionage category.
Fact is that player was a good player in previous corps, suddenly became a pirate and started shooting ships not in my corp. Problems like that happen, so APi checks are not enough to get that.
But anyway, with the corp can shoot corp members. it becames an issue and CONCORD responding to allience members being attacked but not corp. Makes not much sence why we cant turn it off or on. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
809
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Posted - 2012.07.29 20:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Get a PvP ship and blow the offender out of the water space. Stop trying to get NPCs to do your job for you! Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9028
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Posted - 2012.07.29 21:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's all a part of Eve and should stay. Be more careful who you invite next time and have a policy of no roles for a set time.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
241
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Posted - 2012.07.29 21:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Security is an ongoing issue in any corp. You can't check an API key and be done with it. I admit I know nothing about the particular situation you describe, but my experience with these types of things is there are generally some warning signs. I've seen it done in retribution for slights from the senior leadership from otherwise very honest players (pirates are often honest btw, piracy and dishonesty are in no way linked). More often though, it's from guys who have zero respect for other players and can't think 5 second ahead of them. Those types are fairly common and just about any real corp will eventually find one in their midst. I wouldn't boot them over a gut feeling, but I do recommend keeping a close eye on them. It all comes down to knowing your corp members really. There just isn't any substitute for chatting with them casually.
Anyways, I still support your proposal since it's reasonable. The Troll is trolling. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1561
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Posted - 2012.07.29 21:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
To be honest I've always thought of awoxxing as a kind of proud Eve tradition, never done it myself but I'd be sad to see it go just so some high sec corps don't have to get to know people before accepting their applications.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Marcus Ichiro
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
68
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Posted - 2012.07.29 22:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you don't want to consent to PvP, don't undock. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
450
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Posted - 2012.07.30 01:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:To be honest I've always thought of awoxxing as a kind of proud Eve tradition, never done it myself but I'd be sad to see it go just so some high sec corps don't have to get to know people before accepting their applications. Agreed completely. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
A Soporific
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
1
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Posted - 2012.07.30 05:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't muck around on the test servers much. When I test set ups and train for PVP I do it live. Without the lack of interference of CONCORD with internal disputes, I'd be forced to the test server. That's a huge hassle to deal with a problem I've never experienced first hand.
"Never trust anyone you can't punch in the face"
My first CEO ever told me that. I've lived by that. And I haven't had any problems at all. |
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StoneCold
House of Sparrows
34
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Posted - 2012.07.30 06:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
It-¦s because eve is run by corporations. Every corporation is caring for their own security (to a resonable degree). My bet why people in the same alliance but in different corps aren-¦t allowed to shoot each other is simple:
When alliances come to TQ ccp just missed that part (yes, i think it should be possible).
So: working as intended. |
Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
33
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Posted - 2012.07.30 13:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
I feel Awoxing is a valid gameplay tactic.
Let the teamkilling continue. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
192
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Posted - 2012.07.30 13:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Removing aspects of the game which allow the behaviour of betrayal is detrimental to the game as a whole. Betrayal, spying, theft, conning and scams are all parts of the game that improves the sandbox quality.
I don't perform any and I avoid all "evil" game styles where I can but I certainly don't condone removing them from the game.
If you have many people turning on you and the rest of your corp from within you're either not paying enough attention to recruiting or you're treating your members like *****. Considering you've already said you vet members fairly thoroughly and they've never done it before it seems likely it's your behaviour as CEO or the behaviour of your directors that's causing the problem.
Try dealing with internal conflicts properly rather than asking for valid mechanics to be removed or changed. If you can't sort it out peacefully, kick them from the corp and let your corp know that you'll give a bounty to anyone who kills them. Depending on how much they upset you, you could always hire a merc corp to go after them or wait till they join another player corp and wardec them or if the offending individual heads to lowsec to "pirate" use locator agents and spend a week or two using your corp members to ruin that offender's days.
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
447
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Posted - 2012.07.30 14:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.
Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.
Then do it again the next week.
You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
9031
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Posted - 2012.07.30 14:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.
Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.
Then do it again the next week.
You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic. I like this, nice idea Nikk.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2054
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Posted - 2012.07.30 15:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
As someone closely involved with such "safaris", here's my advice on dealing with this:
Vet your recruits better. A proper API check will tell you what other characters they have on their account. Doing research on THOSE characters might reveal something. Be sure you can see their kill logs, and look for them killing members of their own corp.
Have a minimum SP limit. If you really want to recruit and train noobs, establish a feeder corp where noobs can reside while you help them get started, and then move up once they get to your SP requirement. This eliminates short-term alts from being able to shoot anything more than cheap T1 stuff. Be sure your noobs know that your policy is that any ships lost to recruits in the feeder corp are insured by the corp. That way if some ******* DOES go noob bashing, they know you've got their backs.
What I think needs to be changed:
So far as I know, neutral logi repping a corp fight don't get any form of aggression. This gives an awoxer invincible logi support. This is a hole that should be closed.
It's impossible to kick a corpmate in space. Previous bugs have shown that this prevents inadvertent Concord losses and other problems, BUT you should at least be able to set someone to be kicked at the next downtime if they're in space and can't be kicked immediately. Theyshouldn't get to stay in a corp that wants to kick them just because they beat the CEO to logging in after downtime. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
499
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Posted - 2012.07.30 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:If they are going to AWOX, give them an incentive to leave.
Circulate a corp mail that for the next week a free kill hazing rite will be open on that pilot. The pilot with the most kill mails on them, podding included, will win a prize.
Then do it again the next week.
You either create a feel good sport, or they leave. Win / Win. You might possibly rehabilitate them, but let's not get too optimistic.
On top of this, I'd randomly form fleets to chase them down and camp them in stations. They'd never be sure when it might happen and it's up to you if you let them know it is happening when you fleet up. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
499
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Posted - 2012.07.30 15:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:It's impossible to kick a corpmate in space. Previous bugs have shown that this prevents inadvertent Concord losses and other problems, BUT you should at least be able to set someone to be kicked at the next downtime if they're in space and can't be kicked immediately. Theyshouldn't get to stay in a corp that wants to kick them just because they beat the CEO to logging in after downtime.
This sounds like a pretty decent compromise, at least a CEO/Director would know they'd be gone at some point within the next day instead of having to deal with someone they couldn't hope to remove unless they managed to catch them docked. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
455
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Posted - 2012.07.30 16:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:It-¦s because eve is run by corporations. Every corporation is caring for their own security (to a resonable degree). My bet why people in the same alliance but in different corps aren-¦t allowed to shoot each other is simple:
When alliances come to TQ ccp just missed that part (yes, i think it should be possible).
So: working as intended. It's because alliances are primarily nullsec entities (at least by design intent) where anybody can shoot anybody without consequence. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2012.08.01 00:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Call Rollard wrote:My issue I'm trying to say is this: I think that there should be an option to allow corp members to shoot each other but also be able to turn that feature off. This means if a corp wants to do PvP against another corp member, they can shoot each other freely for PvP practice. In short. Put an corp member engagment turn off and on button for high and low sec.
Why don't we just make a PVE server like WoW... Not!... Eve isn't made for little boys.
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Lady Ati
Cur Dogs Incorporated United Sovereigns Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.08.01 00:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Well theres a few things wrong with this....
1. Don't do anything to make the other people want to kill you. Why do you think you were attacked in our alliance,
2. Don't let everyone into your corp who cares about member count if they can't help you
3. API and background check everyone who applies
4. Stop whining every time something doesn't go your way you make yourself an easy target. Person above me is right this is not a game for kids so grow up and accept that some people are just assholes.
If you get an awoxer in your corp and your members lose ships it is on your head as CEO.
This is EVE you need to learn this and accept it. |
Zaltone
Cur Dogs Incorporated United Sovereigns Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.08.01 00:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Ati wrote:Well theres a few things wrong with this.... 1. Don't do anything to make the other people want to kill you. Why do you think you were attacked in our alliance, 2. Don't let everyone into your corp who cares about member count if they can't help you 3. API and background check everyone who applies 4. Stop whining every time something doesn't go your way you make yourself an easy target. Person above me is right this is not a game for kids so grow up and accept that some people are just assholes. If you get an awoxer in your corp and your members lose ships it is on your head as CEO. This is EVE you need to learn this and accept it.
This isnt common eve knowledge???????????? There should be a wiki or something. The Dominix is always, the answer the question doesnt matter!!!!!
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Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
136
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Posted - 2012.08.01 09:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote:If you don't want to consent to PvP, don't undock log in. FTFY Even market PvP is PvP.
Everything in Eve is PvP |
MidnightWyvern
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
14
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Posted - 2012.08.01 12:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
The fact is that the ability to engage members of your Corporation is fairly essential when it comes to training new pilots in PvP, as practice battles are really the only way to effectively do this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2091
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Posted - 2012.08.01 14:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lady Ati wrote:If you get an awoxer in your corp and your members lose ships it is on your head as CEO.
I disagree. Some of our guys are quite good at safaris and have the social engineering down to a science. API check and research only go so far: if they're using an alt with no kill record and a clean corp history, there's nothing to indicate their intent to blow up your stuff.
As I said before, a minimum SP limit on entrance into your main corp can be a rather significant barrier. If you're doing your API checks properly, you won't get many characters with 5+ million SP looking to awox corpmates for the first time. You can still get some determined individuals, but it drastically reduces the pool of potential violence.
Regardless, you need to exercise caution when checking out new recruits. One of our guys recently destroyed 4.5 billion isk when he joined a corp and wiped out a mining fleet. The same guy just last night acquired 50 kills on an embedded alt by dropping a smartbombing raven in the middle of a RvB fleet (he also hit a neutral and was concorded). In both cases, he was fully trusted the moment he joined the corp. He was given access to all their ops. Here are a few questions ask yourself:
1) Where is this guy? Is he in a mission hub where he might have spotted an expensive mission ship? Did he just spot our mining op? It's rather suspect if you aren't actively recruiting that someone suddenly takes an interest in your corp among all the others out there.
2) What's he flying? If you want to immediately involve a guy in corp activities, meet him in space and check out his ship. Ship scan him on the pretense of making sure it's competently fitted. Is it PVP fitted when you're supposed to be running a level 4 mission? If he's offering to haul stuff in a badger, does it have guns and a point?
3) What am I flying? Don't trot out your faction-fitted mission ships or your hulk fleet when you have a new guy. Most awoxers are looking for quick kills, and will settle for something relatively cheap. It's a lot better to lose 200 million on a T2 fitted battleship than 2 billion on a faction fitted marauder or T3. You need to involve new recruits so they feel welcome, but you don't have to expose your valuable hardware to do that.
Basically, minimize the risk of loss to recruits. You'll never be 100% safe from this sort of behavior, but you can certainly secure yourself against much of it. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2091
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Posted - 2012.08.01 14:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:The fact is that the ability to engage members of your Corporation is fairly essential when it comes to training new pilots in PvP, as practice battles are really the only way to effectively do this.
Nah. "Here's a free rifter, fleet up and let's go find people to shoot." Ten minutes of explaining out PVP combat works and some post-fight constructive criticism and they'll be competent pilots in no time.
Practice battles indeed. I've never "practiced" for PVP. I did get involved in a few T1 cruiser tournaments some friends put on, but that was just arranged fights. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Lady Ati
Cur Dogs Incorporated United Sovereigns Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.08.01 15:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
One of the reasons I said it's on his head at least a week ago when he flew with us he used a we'll talk 5 minutes and then you're in point to recruiting. you will get a few awoxers from time to time I've done it myself before but As I said to him before more research is better.
Even if an awoxer is good and gets in and you lose a mining barge or ten as the CEO you still need to deal with it and help get things back on track. In my honest opinion it becomes your responsibility to help and get things back on track. I understand things happen but all the same complaining about how things have been for a while like this though they may change and I highly doubt it it is a part of the game. Some people just enjoy being assholes and the thrill you get with it. |
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