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Eve Gurl
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Posted - 2010.09.14 18:35:00 -
[1]
I recently lost my tengu after jumping through a gate in high security, to be immediately fired upon by a maelstrom with a rather impressive alpha. Due to the EM hole on the Tengu, i was instapopped, and the suicider's alt got to scoop up a good 500m+ in module drops, at a cost of maybe 20-40m after insurance, for his BS.
I'll post the ship i was flying in a moment, but my question is: how do i protect myself from an arty battleship at a gate waiting to suicide? My answer is to build some passive EM shield modules into the mids, but it hurts the tank compared to the actives, and makes Guristas missions extra hard to tank. As you'll see, it runs a rather precarious balance of huge dps and minimal tank:
Tengu
Subsystems: Accelerated Ejection Bay Amplification Node Dissolution Sequencer Augmented Capacitor reservoir Fuel Catalyst
Hislots: 6x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Mid slots: Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster Republic Fleet 10mn aAfterburner Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron (target painter) 2x Mission Specific Hardener II
Lowslots: 2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 2x Ballistic Control System II (will get full caldari navy BCUs when money and ship lifespan permit)
Rigs: 2x Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II 1x Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
I'm posting on an alt to discourage people from trying to track me down to kill me again, so you'll just have to live without knowing my main.
I'm looking for alternate fitting ideas that will be consistent with the current tankable amount and dps (all level Vs is fine for comparison).....and don't say switch to HMLs, i'm nit interested in losing 200 dps
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.09.14 18:42:00 -
[2]
Just buffer tank it and voila.
[Tengu, hm] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Reactor Control Unit
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Target Painter II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Purger II Medium Core Defence Field Purger II Medium Core Defence Field Purger II
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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Eve Gurl
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Posted - 2010.09.14 18:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: fuxinos Just buffer tank it and voila.
[Tengu, hm] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Reactor Control Unit
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Target Painter II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Purger II Medium Core Defence Field Purger II Medium Core Defence Field Purger II
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
I'll consider the fit, but the ship is losing about 50 dps without BCU #4, and it suddenly becomes HOPELESS at killing frigs without the flare catalysts (and the range gets cut by about 4-6km without the Hydraulic bay thrusters). I do realize i'm basically asking an impossible question: how do i fix my fit without changing my fit but i'm hoping to keep my dps intact...unfortunately, of all the things on the ship, what i can LEAST afford to get rid of are the missile rigs
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.14 18:53:00 -
[4]
1. Make bookmarks so you're not spending time aligning at gates.
2. Stop trying to make your tengu less appealing to a ganker. Chances are good they'll shoot you anyway.
3. Profit!
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.09.14 18:58:00 -
[5]
The only way to get a mission tengu safe from suicide gankers is to stay away from highsec.
I'd guess the second best alternative is to fit a cov ops cloak and focus on courier missions, only accept systems in which you have bookmarks and instas setup. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 378705
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:01:00 -
[6]
There is no such thing as "suicide proof"à
àwell, except maybe the Veldnaught. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:01:00 -
[7]
No such thing as a suicide proof ship. Especially when it's generally known that mission Tengus are usually full of tastey goodies. Sometimes I call the Orca suicide proof though, in that its corp bay won't drop valuables. Your best bet is to make sure you're never sitting on a gate for long enough for someone to do a module scan.
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Eve Gurl
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Irae Ragwan 1. Make bookmarks so you're not spending time aligning at gates.
2. Stop trying to make your tengu less appealing to a ganker. Chances are good they'll shoot you anyway.
3. Profit!
you realize step 1 will have NO impact on getting ganked at a gate right? A gank BS with SEBO IIs will still lock and pop me no matter WHERE i try to warp after going thru a gate.
In regards to step 2, if i survive 1 salvo from an arty Maelstrom, i've won - he's not getting off another before CONCORD rips him a new one. So please, if i've got the EHP to survive it, shoot away!
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Akisawa
Caldari Path Of The Cursed
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:11:00 -
[9]
How about salvos from 2 maelstroms. Umm, 3 Maelstroms? Get full officer fit, and you will see 8 Maelstroms. Just dont get scanned and dont AFK at gates long enough for people to start getting ideas.
--- Improving my day by ruining yours
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:11:00 -
[10]
I'll assume for a moment you're not trolling.
First, if they are ganking ya out of instas then you're not being scanned. If you are being scanned, you're just not making good bookmarks. Secondly, since you aren't being scanned (I hope), there's absolutely nothing you can do about being ganked. So you'll need to find a new place to carebear.
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Yawgmoth's
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:14:00 -
[11]
When your mission ship is in trouble do as the Russians do and hit CTRL Q
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:32:00 -
[12]
Stab it for travel fit.
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Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:33:00 -
[13]
If you weren't AFK traveling, the ganker got very, very lucky assuming of course, you were paying attention and warping to zero as you went from gate exit, to the next gate. Still, if you had 500 mil in dropped mods, that means you had over 1 Bil fitted or thereabouts. That being the case, welcome to EVE, we really are out to get you.
Fit the ship how you like and don't fixate of gate campers. Once a ship goes upwards of a bil or more in mods, you're gonna draw attention to yourself. That's just the way it is.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Eve Gurl
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei If you weren't AFK traveling, the ganker got very, very lucky assuming of course, you were paying attention and warping to zero as you went from gate exit, to the next gate. Still, if you had 500 mil in dropped mods, that means you had over 1 Bil fitted or thereabouts. That being the case, welcome to EVE, we really are out to get you.
Fit the ship how you like and don't fixate of gate campers. Once a ship goes upwards of a bil or more in mods, you're gonna draw attention to yourself. That's just the way it is.
nope, had about 750m in mods fit...
he got lucky with the drops... he got 3 out of 3 caldari navy BCUs republic fleet AB Pithi b-type small booster caldari navy shield boost amp
only thing he didn't get was CN invuln
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Maz3r Rakum
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Posted - 2010.09.14 19:37:00 -
[15]
if you don't want to get ganked don't fly with expensive mods. t2 fit it.
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
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Posted - 2010.09.14 20:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Eve Gurl
Originally by: Solomar Espersei If you weren't AFK traveling, the ganker got very, very lucky assuming of course, you were paying attention and warping to zero as you went from gate exit, to the next gate. Still, if you had 500 mil in dropped mods, that means you had over 1 Bil fitted or thereabouts. That being the case, welcome to EVE, we really are out to get you.
Fit the ship how you like and don't fixate of gate campers. Once a ship goes upwards of a bil or more in mods, you're gonna draw attention to yourself. That's just the way it is.
nope, had about 750m in mods fit...
he got lucky with the drops... he got 3 out of 3 caldari navy BCUs republic fleet AB Pithi b-type small booster caldari navy shield boost amp
only thing he didn't get was CN invuln
And your main is Limdood. You know, you can actually post with him on forums. No need to be that shy and hide.
But 750 mil is still way too much for a high-sec system where's no need to have that expensive setup. Who are you shooting at, anyway? Rats? ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.09.14 21:03:00 -
[17]
Right, well, 750 mil is a lot to be flying around with and if I thought I could gank you before CONCORD showed up, well, I'd be shooting. Make yourself a travel fit and stow your goods in a cargo container. Even better, get an Orca Alt to ferry your "blinged" Tengu and other ships around high sec. They can still be ganked, but it takes far more than a single shooter.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.09.14 21:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/09/2010 21:20:09
Originally by: Eve Gurl I recently lost my tengu after jumping through a gate in high security, to be immediately fired upon by a maelstrom with a rather impressive alpha. Due to the EM hole on the Tengu, i was instapopped, and the suicider's alt got to scoop up a good 500m+ in module drops, at a cost of maybe 20-40m after insurance, for his BS.
I'll post the ship i was flying in a moment, but my question is: how do i protect myself from an arty battleship at a gate waiting to suicide? My answer is to build some passive EM shield modules into the mids, but it hurts the tank compared to the actives, and makes Guristas missions extra hard to tank. As you'll see, it runs a rather precarious balance of huge dps and minimal tank:
That kinda sucks man, but I wouldn't let a small setback like this knock you out too much. Yeah, suicide ganking happens... but really your best defenses are to fly where there's fewer people (avoid the major mission hubs) or to not bling your ship out so much. I've personally never had any trouble with a faction booster and 4 faction damage mods.
-Liang
Ed: And if someone is gonna go run a locator on me, I'll save you the time - I think I logged off in Hadozeko last night. Maybe Resbroko or Ardar - not real sure. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2010.09.14 21:29:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Aamrr on 14/09/2010 21:35:32 I think your best bet is to be conscious of what drops and what doesn't. Subsystems don't drop. Rigs don't drop. Implants don't drop. T2 guns are just as good as faction, and faction ammo is cheap. Is the difference between T2 and faction BCS worth it? Is it worth it when it's stacking penalized to only 28% effectiveness?
Implant set is: CR8, ZME2000, CC8, ZMS1000, ZMM1000.
Here's what I came up with. Total value in DROPPABLE modules is just under 400 million isk. 200 million isk is pretty slim pickings when it comes to a Tengu gank. The invulnerability field also contributes to filling that EM hole, if only slightly. Meanwhile, you're tanking 584 DPS vs. Guristas and throwing out 870 DPS.
[Tengu, Gank-Conscious]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.09.14 21:53:00 -
[20]
Are you stupid? This thread really made me facepalm hard.
No matter how many EHP you have, if someone wants you dead, they WILL want you dead. More deadspace/faction item will make people want you dead.
If you are in a 1-man corp 0% tax, to be suicide gank proof, you must not convey yourself as a target in the first place.
This is done by minimizing the ammount of cost of droppable mods on your ship. You do this by only using faction BCU as faction item and leaving the rest to normal T2 items
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2010.09.14 21:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aamrr on 14/09/2010 22:05:36 And, indeed, if you want to be particularly conservative, that's what you do. However, a pure T2 fitting on a Tengu chews up a lot of capacitor and gives a rather lackluster tank. The improved capacitor efficiency of a faction AB and some very cheap deadspace modules makes a significant difference on the sustainability of the ship's defense.
If you want something more conservative, I suppose this could fit the bill. Tank suffers, but not excessively. I don't think 40 million isk is too much to spend on a shield booster.
[Tengu, Cheaper]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
10MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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Daergaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.14 22:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aamrr And, indeed, if you want to be particularly conservative, that's what you do. However, a pure T2 fitting on a Tengu chews up a lot of capacitor and gives a rather lackluster tank. The improved capacitor efficiency of a faction AB and some very cheap deadspace modules makes a significant difference on the sustainability of the ship's defense.
The last thing you want to do is throw capacitor modules on this ship.
Wouldn't a Drake-style passive tank be great for missions while simultaneously having more than enough buffer to survive all but the most ridiculous suicide ganking attempts?
Of course, DPS is reduced, but there's no free lunch.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.14 22:51:00 -
[23]
OP, why don't you just use a trial alt to scout for you? If there's a SeBo'ed BS sitting on a hisec gate, he's generally one of two things, someone in a war with another corp/alliance, or a suicide ganker. If your alt sees that, just don't jump through. Same goes for station undocks. Takes a little effort and will save you a lot of hassle.
That said, this is eve and if they see you in expensive stuff and they want some of it, they'll look for you and probe your ship out in a mission complex and come and gank you there. It pays to be aware of what's up in local if you're flying expensive stuff in missions.
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Morag Ondr
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:01:00 -
[24]
You mentioned that you had a CN Invuln. Was that turned off? Maybe just a change in tactics would help in that specific situation.
Jump through gate. Notice maelstrom on overview. Align to destination. Turn on your CN Invuln. Maelstrom pilot clicks on you on the overview. Volley almost takes you out. You escape with structure.
Overheating the CN Invuln would also help give you a bigger edge. EFT indicates he would need a 15.5k volley. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.09.15 04:07:00 -
[25]
turn on 1 invlun and you should be 1 ship suicide proof, you can turn your invlun on before anyone can even lock you. also don't fit a stupidly expensive ship even with awesome skills and stuff you are around 30k ehp (2x cn invluns) and that is 20k ehp to RF EMP, thats 2 arty gank ship shots and you dead
tengus are fragile, we went over this months ago, surprised it took people this long to actually go out and gank em
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.09.15 05:00:00 -
[26]
Sacrifice the gank...
And as said... Tengu's are paper thin without their active tank running. So either lose gank for proper passive tank, or treat each system you warp into as a mission gate and turn your tank on as soon as you warp/decloak.
Personally, I considered once going full "Dread Guristas" fit on my Tengu (well, and maybe some Pithum mods), but then I realised it'd be a very expensive cruiser. So now I fly a 99% T2 ship with 1 faction booster... that's it.
Feel free to gank me and gamble on getting that one mod. When near Jita I tend to go fully active with 75%+ resists... so I don't understand why people don't treat places like Motsu the same.
-G
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 05:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton turn on 1 invlun and you should be 1 ship suicide proof, you can turn your invlun on before anyone can even lock you. also don't fit a stupidly expensive ship even with awesome skills and stuff you are around 30k ehp (2x cn invluns) and that is 20k ehp to RF EMP, thats 2 arty gank ship shots and you dead
tengus are fragile, we went over this months ago, surprised it took people this long to actually go out and gank em
Its not like a Golem can't be ganked by 4 Maelstroms in similar circumstances.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Caldari citizen52145894561
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Posted - 2010.09.15 06:08:00 -
[28]
there was supposedly a fit using an amarr BS (for the powergrid) with highs filled with arty, and rigged, with full skills could get 20k alpha... and even then there is the "wreaking" hit that happens every so often that does 300% dmg.
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Agent 42
Gallente Forged Raptor TECH
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Posted - 2010.09.15 06:19:00 -
[29]
[Tengu, New Setup 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
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Exaron
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Posted - 2010.09.15 06:48:00 -
[30]
that's where I come in and say "if only you have done a bit pvp...." :)
basically suicide ships are a bit too obvious. You see a yellow guy in a bs or any guy in a bs from which lots of circular lights coming out, this means that he has sensor boosters to lock you faster :) you see a bs sitting on gate alone, with his sensor boosters on, %70 he is a suicide ganker... if he has a hauler beside him that is not moving, percentage goes up to %99 :) if the hauler is sensor boosted as well, then %100 :)
you see, you have an afterburner on your ship which probably allows you to go up to 600m/s... if you jump thru a gate and see a suspicious ship, align somewhere that will allow you to go into his transversal. Meaning: Consider that suicide ship as in the middle of a circle, you need to cross thru the edge of that circle with tangent angles. By doing so, you will make it more difficult for him to track you which is a big issue for 1400mm artilleries that popped you. In the end, you will have about %80 higher chance of survival.
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