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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 02:48:00 -
[31]
Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
This is a fraud. I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
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Stitcher
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.09.15 02:55:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Stitcher on 15/09/2010 02:59:12
Originally by: Julianus Soter This is a fraud. I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
If any capsuleer claimed to me that they were able to review the census data for the entire Federation's population and somehow identify four people or definitively rule out their existence in a mere eight hours, I'd call them a fraud too. I sure as hell don't have access to that kind of information for the State, and our record-keeping is MUCH more reliable than the Federation's in that regard.
You have no basis for such accusations other than your own failure to acquire reliable data. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, and I think it's almost universally considered very unpleasant indeed to call a person a liar without solid proof. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:00:00 -
[33]
We don't even use hangings as a form of execution. How is any of this even logically possible?
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Stitcher
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:03:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Stitcher on 15/09/2010 03:04:26
Don't you? My understanding was that the Federation is an extremely large and diverse culture, with capital punishment being managed on a provincial or system-government level. It really wouldn't surprise me if at least some of them preferred hanging.
Besides, as capital punishments go, hanging is comparatively humane next to the brutality that was the Eturrer execution -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Eris Davion It's not like the Federation is alone in that. I think it safe to say that all the empires reserve the right to invoke capital punishment for the crime of treason - as do most of the other independent factions and entities out there (though in the case of capsuleers, it's more of an inconvenience than an elimination.)
You'll note I specified PUBLIC execution. The Empire are decent enough to do it in private, and our system more involves encouraging the condemned to redeem themselves through discreet and private ritual suicide. I don't know how it's done in Minmatar society, though I hear that the Thukker just tend to space their condemned without much in the way of ceremony.
I haven't spent enough time among the Thukker to really say, but that would fit with what I've heard as well. (Which raises a question: what were the Thukker like before we took to the stars? But that's neither here nor there.)
And I'll admit, I didn't think much of the public aspect. In all fairness, I still don't - it seems a moot point, unless the citizenry is being forced to view the event.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:39:00 -
[36]
Federal crimes have federal punishments under federal law.
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Stitcher
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.09.15 03:42:00 -
[37]
And federal law specifically prohibits hanging, whilst still allowing for death by burning explosive high-speed cancer?
If that's the case, then the Federation has an even more twisted sense of priorities than I had thought. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Arvo Katsuya
Caldari True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.09.15 04:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Countless individuals have been arrested and detained with varying levels of evidence...
Quote:
Now it lies deserted, with nearly every one of its citizens taken during the Nation raid.
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
These citizens, stripped of their constitutional rights,
Originally by: Julianus Soter
I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
The pattern is recognized, as things repeat themselves.
It is... disppointing, that all those who didn't agree to our ways in leaving their colonies, are subjugated to either being silenced or put to death when they recount what they witness to others.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.09.15 05:03:00 -
[39]
This nonsense in my home station... I need to get back to wormhole space to get some sleep.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.09.15 11:47:00 -
[40]
I must applaud the efficient handling of trouble makers. Good to see the Gallente being efficient for once.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
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Aicar Leuscirh
Mannar Independent Liberation Front
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Posted - 2010.09.15 13:22:00 -
[41]
The Senate discussed banning public execution, but it ultimately failed.
I'm sure some districts and governances have capital punishment outlawed, but nowhere have I learnt that a simple hanging is illegal.
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Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.09.15 15:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ikarus Gaul General Inhonores, The last time I checked the Federation was still a democracy with institutions responsible for justice. While you may have been well within your rights to apprehend the accused, your were not in the right in trying them. That is a matter for the Judicial Arm (e.g. the Supreme Court), which I believe is still functioning, is it not?
And no citizen, nor any person in Federation territory, can be stripped of their constitutional rights. Otherwise we are no longer Gallente, and there is no longer any Federation. The Dream and Vision would be dead.
Vigilantism is unacceptable and un-Gallente. This was a shameful week...
Mr. Gaul, the Federation may once have been a Democracy and might still cling to some vestiges of one, but I can assure the dream and vision are quickly fading.
This latest occurrence is merely a continuation of the Federation's decline; a decline that became very public and pronounced with the disenfranchisement of billions of Federation "citizens" in places like Placid.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 15:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 15/09/2010 15:46:47 Allow me to remind those here that the public execution of Eturrer was one of the last acts of now-disgraced and denounced President Foiritan, who among other things, attempted a mass seizure of starship and weapons manufacturing industries to wage the war with the Caldari.
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Sylorin
Caldari MMZ Laboratories LLC
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:07:00 -
[44]
Good job.
We're currently running tests on the clones and corpses of Nation members and supporters. If you haven't destroyed the bodies, would it be possible to obtain them from you?
We are confident that we can develop...well, best not to mention our specific goals here. But intact or lightly damaged Nation Supporter corpses are essntial to our work. Upon copmetion, we feel we will have a system that will not only prevent the taking of anymore people, but could reverse the damage done to the people who have already been taken.
Keep up the good work.
*The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMZ Labs, LLC |
Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Saxon Hawke This latest occurrence is merely a continuation of the Federation's decline; a decline that became very public and pronounced with the disenfranchisement of billions of Federation "citizens" in places like Placid.
General Inhonores has probably gone "over the edge" mentally and decided to become a vigilante due to fact that State Protectorate is rapidly undoing the so called "occupation" of Black Rise that he was so fundamental in implementing. Indeed, i've not witnessed him in warzone ever since he and his federation lackeys were driven from Hirri like whipped dogs.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:31:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Seriphyn Inhonores on 15/09/2010 16:32:24 Interesting.
Two points.
1) This was a broadcast, through me as proxy by the Federal Intelligence Office's Special Department of Internal Investigations and Federal Security.
2) This broadcast nowhere states my status as a judge, jury or executioner. I can publically disclose that I was involved in the capture of these individuals on a standard mission given to me by a representative of the Federal Intelligence Office. These standard missions to capture individuals for a governmental organization or independent corporation are carried out by yourselves on a frequent, daily basis.
I am, as such, relaying the outcome of a standard contract to recover Sansha sympathizers. What do you think Republic Security Services does to those Angel Cartel militants you recover, hmm?
Do not blur the issue.
(Also, my dear Damar, you might endeavour to do your research as to why I ruthlessly participate in the campaign against Sansha's Nation. It has nothing to do with the war with the Caldari, for starters) ------------ Luminaire General Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard [FDU] |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.09.15 16:57:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/09/2010 16:57:03
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
Nor do you. Shut up.
Join the Revolution!
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2010.09.15 17:09:00 -
[48]
What to make of this...
I'll assume that the original broadcast is for real, and sadly it does not surprise me if it is. As others have mentioned, the Federation has been degenerating for quite some time now. Its stuff like this why I don't consider myself a Federation citizen anymore, my occupation aside.
The irony of this particular broadcast does not escape me. I can only find peace in the thought that these people were rewarded with what I consider the ultimate, and perhaps the only, freedom.
I can understand people "falling foolishly to the lies of Sansha's Nation" with these kind of examples.
(Rest In) Peace,
-ChT Biko
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Syn Callibri
21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.09.15 20:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
This is a fraud. I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
Speaking simply to hear yourself again?
Syn Callibri Director, 21st Eridani Lighthorse Sister of the Blood Pact
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Myxx
Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.09.15 20:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/09/2010 16:57:03
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
Nor do you. Shut up.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
This is a fraud. I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
Speaking simply to hear yourself again?
It seems like you, and your little group are more speaking to hear yourselves speak than anyone else.
At least Soter has a rank within the Federation, as does Seriphyn. They at least have a stake in this.
You dont. This has nothing to do with you, or your anarchist friends (hello Jade) whatsoever.
Both of you need to take Jade's advice: Shut up. --
My opinion is my own and nothing but my own. Before putting words in my mouth, it might help to ask for clarification if you are confused. |
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Brandrsun
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.15 21:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Myxx
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/09/2010 16:57:03
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
Nor do you. Shut up.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Julianus Soter Seriphyn Inhonores has no standing as a member of the SDII, or any official capacity with any Federal governmental agency or department of justice.
This is a fraud. I can't even confirm the existence of these men.
Speaking simply to hear yourself again?
It seems like you, and your little group are more speaking to hear yourselves speak than anyone else.
At least Soter has a rank within the Federation, as does Seriphyn. They at least have a stake in this.
You dont. This has nothing to do with you, or your anarchist friends (hello Jade) whatsoever.
Both of you need to take Jade's advice: Shut up.
Agreed.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.09.16 01:45:00 -
[52]
It's things like this that make me wonder why the Federation and the State don't get along. They have so much in common. ___
Chaotic Dreams |
Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr House Kyriel Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.16 14:46:00 -
[53]
I find it interesting how so many decry this event as something ultimately bad, something that is even shameful or not 'fitting' in their view of the Federation. Some even claim that this never even took place, and some who agree it did happen claim it's a sign of their society falling part, no less.
I fail to see how this is so. Sansha's Nation is a remnant from a great idea gone horribly wrong, to the point where they are effectively enemies of humanity for their efforts to capture and de-humanize and mutilate men, woman and children without question or invitation. Then along comes the Federation's forces to seek out and punish those found guilty of aiding the Sansha in their space, doing their whole society, indeed even the cluster itself a major favor.
And this you decry as a bad thing. While I'd prefer that executions be done in silence - dignified, if not to the prisoners than at least for the soldiers who work tirelessly for their people's safety - I can not help but feel that a warning and an example serves it's place. People would do well to remember that laws are indeed being enforced, and punishment dealt to those who would break them and be found guilty of doing so.
While I do not have much to say about the Federation at large - I do not particularly care for your society after all - I believe respect is due where it is earned. So again, well done. There are those who have the bravery to do the hard parts to safeguard their common people.
_________________________ Reformist, loyal to the Amarrian Empire. |
Victor Michaelle
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.16 15:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel I find it interesting how so many decry this event as something ultimately bad, something that is even shameful or not 'fitting' in their view of the Federation. Some even claim that this never even took place, and some who agree it did happen claim it's a sign of their society falling part, no less.
I fail to see how this is so. Sansha's Nation is a remnant from a great idea gone horribly wrong, to the point where they are effectively enemies of humanity for their efforts to capture and de-humanize and mutilate men, woman and children without question or invitation. Then along comes the Federation's forces to seek out and punish those found guilty of aiding the Sansha in their space, doing their whole society, indeed even the cluster itself a major favor.
It is a fair question, I suppose. I will try to explain.
The issue isn't that they were caught, nor really the excecutions themseves. The issue is that they didn't follow procedure, and thus we who were not involved have no way of knowing that the excecuted were actually guilty as charged. This is a cultural difference between Gallente and Amarr, I suppose, we are not in the habit of blindly trusting our authorities.
It is possible, even probable, that these men were indeed a danger to the common man. Even so, there would have been little harm in following proper procedure and letting the judical system judge what exactly should be done with them.
Contrast this with the worst possible case. What if they were not actually actively fighting for Sansha, but merely expressing opinions leaning that way? There would be elements in the government that would very much like to silence such voices, and this could be one way they'd do it. Making up fictionous crimes and punishing them before anyone has a chance to disprove them. As Gallente citizens, it is very important to us that these elements are not allowed to do this kind of thought policing.
Cause in effect, that's what this is. The common man will see that if you associate with Sansha in any way, you could be branded a "Sansha Sympathiser" and be excecuted for it. The headline of the feed is even tailored to give this impression. People will be terrified to even suggest that maybe Sansha arn't that bad, and as an effect people will reinforce any anti-Sansha propaganda out of fear, regardless of weither they really believe it or not. People will stop thinking for themselves.
You may wonder why this is a bad thing. Well, for one thing, it makes a part of the common population live in terror. As a freeding loving people, we obviously don't like that. It also has political implications, though. For democracy to work, people must think things through for themselves. If people just take what the authorities say at face value, the authorities would be able to get away with anything. The Federation would no longer be run in the best interest of the people, but rahther in the best interest of the minority that runs the show.
I realise that as an Amarr, you probably believe that authorities can and should be trusted. But keep in mind that in the Federation we don't have the faith to guide our leaders. In Gallente society, the thing keeping our leaders moral is the voice of the people. It is, thus, supremely important that the people isn't silenced.
I hope that made things clear for you.
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Syn Callibri
21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.09.16 18:03:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 16/09/2010 18:06:33
Originally by: Myxx It seems like you, and your little group are more speaking to hear yourselves speak than anyone else.
At least Soter has a rank within the Federation, as does Seriphyn. They at least have a stake in this.
You dont. This has nothing to do with you, or your anarchist friends (hello Jade) whatsoever.
Both of you need to take Jade's advice: Shut up.
<Syn laughs loudly>
Jade Constantine and I are freinds?!?!?!?
<laughs again>
Myxx, whatever you've been smoking...please share it, I could use a good hallucination right now. I can't wait to hear what Captain Constantine has to say about your using my name in the same sentence as her's...especially attatched to the phrase "your little group of friends".
...and as a member of the New Eden Assembly I DO have a stake in this, considering that General Inhonores and Mr. Soter is also a members of that organization.
...and you're opinion is any more relevant than mine why?
Syn Callibri Director Fleet Ops, 21st Eridani Lighthorse Keeper of the Blood Pact
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Arvo Katsuya
Caldari True Slave Foundations
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Posted - 2010.09.16 19:32:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Arvo Katsuya on 16/09/2010 19:34:44 Ms. Callibri. Ms. Constantine. And Myxx. Please refrain from this petty exchange.
The gravity of what has occured here in the death of innocent Federation civilians, has to be respected and discussed. Or else they will continue to happen in different parts of the cluster. Please be mindful of that. |
Syn Callibri
21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.09.16 21:01:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 16/09/2010 21:03:34
Originally by: Arvo Katsuya
Ms. Callibri. Ms. Constantine. And Myxx. Please refrain from this petty exchange.
You are absolutely correct.
Originally by: Arvo Katsuya The gravity of what has occured here in the death of innocent Federation civilians, has to be respected and discussed. Or else they will continue to happen in different parts of the cluster. Please be mindful of that.
Compassion for the innocent...a concern for due process and fair justice...a desire for innocence until guilt is proven...from a Sansha National? No offense intended but...I'm stunned!
Syn Callibri Director Fleet Ops, 21st Eridani Lighthorse Keeper of the Blood Pact
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Boma Airaken
White Song Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2010.09.17 14:08:00 -
[58]
Can we all just finally agree that this thread is ****ing ******ed and the OP belongs in EVE Fiction?
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.09.17 15:55:00 -
[59]
Airaken,
Given General Soter's recent report, I would suggest that perhaps the Federation was a bit too kind in only excecuting four individuals.
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Victor Michaelle
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.18 16:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Airaken,
Given General Soter's recent report, I would suggest that perhaps the Federation was a bit too kind in only excecuting four individuals.
I very much disagree. Detaining for lengthy questioning would be a much more productive use for these prisoners, since it may have led to being able to capture all of them.
Excecutions don't actually solve anything when it's on this scale.
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