Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
iyammarrok
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 00:28:00 -
[31]
Julianus buddy, you're right.
as for those who say that this is not sansha related, or speculation and nothing more, let us take a hypothetical situation.
if i were in kuvakei's position, and wanted to test the effectiveness of these nanite pills to control an entire colony at range, i would first test it in the harshest possible way.
to test the ability of them to coerce an entire population, they would be tested against the most difficult possible target, which in this case, would be the very human will to survive.
it worked... sansha broke an entire colony's will to live. there can be no stronger test. |
Mister Screwball
Minmatar True Slave Foundations
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 11:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: iyammarrok Julianus buddy, you're right.
as for those who say that this is not sansha related, or speculation and nothing more, let us take a hypothetical situation.
if i were in kuvakei's position, and wanted to test the effectiveness of these nanite pills to control an entire colony at range, i would first test it in the harshest possible way.
to test the ability of them to coerce an entire population, they would be tested against the most difficult possible target, which in this case, would be the very human will to survive.
it worked... sansha broke an entire colony's will to live. there can be no stronger test.
Following your line of logic if I was Kuvakei I wouldnt lable the bills Liberty so that they could be so easly traced back to his doorstep whether you think Kuvakei is mad or inspired one thing he isnt is stupid. ---------
|
Eris Davion
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 17:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mister Screwball
Originally by: iyammarrok Julianus buddy, you're right.
as for those who say that this is not sansha related, or speculation and nothing more, let us take a hypothetical situation.
if i were in kuvakei's position, and wanted to test the effectiveness of these nanite pills to control an entire colony at range, i would first test it in the harshest possible way.
to test the ability of them to coerce an entire population, they would be tested against the most difficult possible target, which in this case, would be the very human will to survive.
it worked... sansha broke an entire colony's will to live. there can be no stronger test.
Following your line of logic if I was Kuvakei I wouldnt lable the bills Liberty so that they could be so easly traced back to his doorstep whether you think Kuvakei is mad or inspired one thing he isnt is stupid.
True. However, great genius often correlates with great arrogance and a diminished awareness of the intelligence of others - two traits that are very relevant to making mistakes like leaving a 'signature' that can be traced back to you if spotted.
Especially when it has both a practical use - like letting one's agents know what they're looking for in a clandestine shipment hidden within a more mundane one - and has the plausible-deniability factor of "I'm not stupid enough to do that."
That said, Kuvakei's connection to these pills is still entirely speculative; the evidence, while plausible (at least to those not in support of Kuvakei's vision), is still quite circumstantial.
|
Caiman Graystock
Caldari Starways Congress
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 17:50:00 -
[34]
A lot of people are soon going to be crawling into the shadows for ignoring the obvious, impending threat to the empires which is on our doorstep. The inaction of capsuleers too blind to see now will ultimately be responsible for atrocities unprecedented in our time, I am certain of it. We should not underestimate the threat that the Sansha pose to our operations, especially in empire space.
I've spent some time patrolling the state and scanning the relentless transports departing stations from The Citadel to Black Rise through Lonetrek and The Forge, as of yet I've not discovered a ship transporting these so called 'Liberty Pills' through the State but vigilance is required! The more eyes we have out there the more likely we are to uncover real evidence of their intentions.
|
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 19:13:00 -
[35]
There has been some speculation that this might have been a Serpentis operation, similar to the "rise" incident that took place in the Placid Region three years ago.
There is currently no evidence to support this speculation, but ILF pilots are being notified to be on watch for anything to connect our enemies in the Serpentis organization with these "Liberty Pills."
Should any such information be obtained, we will gladly share it with the larger capsuleer community.
|
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 11:44:00 -
[36]
The purpose of the nanobots has been determined.
The Sisters of Eve have confirmed the Liberty pills were behind the Gererique mass suicides, but as the method of suicide, and not the instigator. The question now is, how were the people induced to such a state of depression, and how were these pills distributed to the general population to allow them to kill themselves?
If it is true that these are merely a method of suicide, then we're largely back to square one in our fight to find and to stop Sansha's Nation from manipulating civilian populations and the minds of individuals they wish to target.
It does answer a number of questions. The pill is not made by the Serpentis, the Blood Raiders, or any other piratical organization apart from Nation. None of those organizations have anything to profit from causing people to commit peaceful suicide. It might be produced by a small tech firm, but that remains unclear.
Additional questions have been raised, however. Why use such an elaborate or expensive means of suicide, when cyanide or any host of chemicals and poisons works just as well? Typically, one does this when he has an excess of a normally valuable form of resource. It reminds me of the Data Shell we picked up from the twisted wreckage of Nation Officer Tori Aanai: an elaborate piece of technology, more form than function, left there as a message to us, silently mocking our assumptions about Nation.
Further updates as they become available.
|
Sinjin Mokk
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 11:59:00 -
[37]
It seems to me that an entire population would not voluntarily commit mass suicide without some form of external coercion.
I think we need to stop calling it mass suicide. This is mass murder. Treat it like the homicide that it is. The first question you ask when investigating a homicide is "who profits from this?"
One possibility is that your suspect is the Nation. How does the Nation profit? As I said, if this was a test run, now they know they can bend an entire population to their will. That means they can use this as a weapon of mass destruction.
Or mass insurrection.
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 13:48:00 -
[38]
They could, for instance, hold an entire planet hostage during an Incursion, requesting that capsuleers hold their fire, else, the planet's populace dies.
|
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 14:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Additional questions have been raised, however. Why use such an elaborate or expensive means of suicide, when cyanide or any host of chemicals and poisons works just as well? [..] It reminds me of the Data Shell we picked up from the twisted wreckage of Nation Officer Tori Aanai: an elaborate piece of technology, more form than function, left there as a message to us, silently mocking our assumptions about Nation.
It appears to me to be a message as well. As to who the sender of the message is...I'm not so sure.
|
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 14:20:00 -
[40]
Well, there is a single advantage to using nanobots in this form of suicide. It would be impossible to stop through any form of antidote or medical treatment. It would be terminally fatal, regardless of any preparation or medical intervention.
The perfect killswitch.
|
|
Eris Davion
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 14:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Julianus Soter
It does answer a number of questions. The pill is not made by the Serpentis, the Blood Raiders, or any other piratical organization apart from Nation. None of those organizations have anything to profit from causing people to commit peaceful suicide.
But then, neither does Sansha's Nation - at least not on the surface. In terms of a direct connection between the results and various organizations stated purposes and goals, this fits more with the aims of EoM than anyone else. And if we start speculating about more indirect goals, possibilities for other groups open up again.
I'm afraid we're still at circumstantial evidence here; Nation's involvement is plausible, but not certain.
|
Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 18:34:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Stitcher on 21/09/2010 18:37:54 Edited by: Stitcher on 21/09/2010 18:37:11
Originally by: Julianus Soter Well, there is a single advantage to using nanobots in this form of suicide. It would be impossible to stop through any form of antidote or medical treatment. It would be terminally fatal, regardless of any preparation or medical intervention.
The perfect killswitch.
... you do realise that one of the functions of a standard medical nanite culture is to hunt down and eradicate non-sanctioned nanotech in the patient's system, right? It's not like it's difficult, the process is identical to their virus and bacterium hunting behaviour when in disinfection or immune-surrogate mode.
yes, some nanite weapons are nasty enough that medical intervention isn't a practical possibility just because the victim dies too quickly, but with hypoxia I see no reason why that should be the case. In an emergency, medical nanobots can oxygenate the blood. there's no reason at all why intervention with a nanite injector wouldn't save somebody who'd taken this suicide pill - it would just have to be prompt.
I don't know what satisfaction you derive from talking out of your kusotare, but it wrecks your credibility when you do. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
|
Mielono
Caldari SWARTA
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 19:37:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Mielono on 21/09/2010 19:40:27 Nanobots are not like a chemical poison, the final effect was the death of those involved, I would like to know what effects it had before that, how it was spread, etc... and honestly if the sisters are the only ones that have really researched it I would like someone else to have a go at it, the sisters have... forgotten to inform me of things before and the end product was not that profitable.
Honestly fear of these pills in their current form is pretty minor, just another way to end ones life. But nanotech gets funkier after that, grey goo attacks come to mind, star systems ripped apart by voracious self assemblers. All in all if this is the worst that can be done with their current nanotech I am happy.
No, something seems far more deep than just alot of people ate some pills. It feels like someone playing with their parents rifle and ending up shooting someone.
As for a method to get people to eat the pills, look up the Parchanier system and some of the odd things going on there.
Originally by: Culmen
A cat is like that carebear who sticks around only while there's food, and at best kills a few rats.A dog F*cking enforces NBSI, and deep down is slightly disappointed you aren't tak |
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 20:13:00 -
[44]
Hnn, Serpentis and Angel Cartel?
The Serpentis gain profits on the proliferation of their drugs, and the Cartel succeeds in corroding the public relations of their enemy.
Suitable motive and clandestine enough to be plausible, I would think.
Equilibrium of Mankind is also a plausible vector, if we are to ignore the political implications of 'Liberty'.
Odd. ______
True Slave Foundations Overseer |
Eris Davion
|
Posted - 2010.09.22 01:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Stitcher
yes, some nanite weapons are nasty enough that medical intervention isn't a practical possibility just because the victim dies too quickly, but with hypoxia I see no reason why that should be the case. In an emergency, medical nanobots can oxygenate the blood. there's no reason at all why intervention with a nanite injector wouldn't save somebody who'd taken this suicide pill - it would just have to be prompt.
Industrial nanites aren't really designed to fight back. Weaponized ones can be.
Granted, doing so involves expending resources that might have been otherwise used to increase lethality or improve the transmission vectors.
|
Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui
|
Posted - 2010.09.22 01:29:00 -
[46]
oh you're quite right. I was just illustrating that once again Soter is holding forth on subjects he plainly doesn't have any familiarity or even knowledge of and extrapolating wildly off zero evidence.
The man's a fool, in other words. I derive a certain sadistic pleasure from highlighting that fact when the opportunity presents itself. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
|
athieros meritar
|
Posted - 2010.09.24 11:13:00 -
[47]
Liberty implies freedom, has anyone looked at the possibility these pills were produced as a rather permanent escape from imminent Sansha enslavement?
If a Sansha fleet has a method of making a population bend to its will and freely board dropships, suicide may seem like the only way out. With intel that A Sansha fleet was due to arrive what are your options, Death or life as a mindless automaton, some may choose death.
Any thoughts? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
|
Posted - 2010.09.24 19:58:00 -
[48]
Some might choose death, yes. But I've not heard of there being word of such an attack on that mining colony, and there, every single one of them died. I'd say at least one would rather be an automaton.
|
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 16:47:00 -
[49]
It would appear that Captain Meritar's speculation was accurate: Liberty Pill Manufacturer Defended.
I am not altogether surprised. The hysterical nature of the reaction to the Nation incursions as much as guaranteed doomsday thinking of the kind that has led to this pass. I may say that some capsuleers have contributed considerably to whipping up the atmosphere of panic and dread attending the current threat.
In that respect, this thread stands as a rather exquisite, somewhat tragic and highly ironic example of Nation-hysteria in action.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 21:15:00 -
[50]
"Dirtsiders" committing suicide rather than being defended by capsuleers...capsuleers being considered no better then the threat (Sansha) that they defend the dirtsiders from...there is a phrase in the lessons of Vulkor that we should all listen to, "To be chosen, is to be alone in the universe". We are alone.
Syn Callibri Commander - Fleet Ops [21EL] Keeper of the Blood Pact
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |