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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 But its cash for isk..and cash for a super character.Now its going to be cash for a remap and its just heading in that direction.I can see why people are worried.
Oh I can see why people are worried. I'm not blind to the concerns - but the level of concern they're expressing is a little over the top, I think.
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flakeys
DRAMA Inc Forbidden Domain
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:16:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cobalt Sixty
Originally by: HeIIfire11 But its cash for isk..and cash for a super character.Now its going to be cash for a remap and its just heading in that direction.I can see why people are worried.
Oh I can see why people are worried. I'm not blind to the concerns - but the level of concern they're expressing is a little over the top, I think.
Because it is better to 'overreact' when it starts then when it is too late and the wheels are allready in full motion.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:38:00 -
[33]
I'm amazed that no one in the MD forum has spotted what this is really about.
CCP needs to get plex off the liabilities side of their balance sheet [currently there is a really huge glut of unused plex].
Why? Think about it this way: with plex piling up [people spending a lot of cash today, but not needing to a few months from now] it will soon be possible for CCP to have a quarter where THE PAYER BASE GROWS BUT REVENUE DOES NOT.
This has nothing to do with RMT. In fact, CCP want plex prices to drop.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:48:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kerfira on 19/09/2010 13:51:20
Originally by: HeIIfire11 But its cash for isk..and cash for a super character.Now its going to be cash for a remap and its just heading in that direction.I can see why people are worried.
If you want a super character for cash, there's a much easier, faster and EULA legal way: Character Bazaar (which I BTW think should NEVER have been allowed at all!)
I've nothing particular against this change since I believe it'll not be used all that much, at least not compared to the use of PLEX for paying for gametime. At worst, it may increase PLEX price by 5%, but I think it'll be (much) less...
It'll most likely benefit relatively new players more than us older players. We're at the point when most things we train are level 5's, sometimes 30+ days per skill. It is much easier then to make a year-long skill plan and keep to it (we already got all the base skills). For example: On my main I'm currently just about finishing off a year-long training schedule for Per/Will, and then has a year-long schedule for Int/Mem planned. A new player OTOH can use this much better since he has a lot of lower level skills to train across attributes. It'll also help people who want to train a (less than year-long) set of Cha skills...
So no... I don't think the sky is falling... Direct SP for PLEX though would be a totally different matter though...
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: flakeys
Originally by: Cobalt Sixty
Originally by: HeIIfire11 But its cash for isk..and cash for a super character.Now its going to be cash for a remap and its just heading in that direction.I can see why people are worried.
Oh I can see why people are worried. I'm not blind to the concerns - but the level of concern they're expressing is a little over the top, I think.
Because it is better to 'overreact' when it starts then when it is too late and the wheels are allready in full motion.
Reacting is one thing, hysteria another. |
Michela
Bosun Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Alice Celadon CCP want plex prices to drop.
They're not the only ones!
I play with PLEX and love it. I hope that remaps, character transfers, and more become payable by PLEX. |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:38:00 -
[37]
How do you know this is going to go live on to Tranquillity?
How do you know this is not just the devs adding in some sisi functionality to improve testing by allowing you to remap more often and train skill quicker?
The crystal ball is a nice tool, problem is all the player owned ones are cracked and tend to reveal more bull excrement than anything.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rainus Max How do you know this is going to go live on to Tranquillity?
How do you know this is not just the devs adding in some sisi functionality to improve testing by allowing you to remap more often and train skill quicker?
The crystal ball is a nice tool, problem is all the player owned ones are cracked and tend to reveal more bull excrement than anything.
Are you new to this game?
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Taser Monkey
Against All Asteroids
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:59:00 -
[39]
How on earth are CCP ever going to beat the RMT? I see here posted how 15 USD will be worth 1b and that it'll drive the RMT out of EVE? Nobody here thought that ISK sellers would just drop their prices. Instead of getting 1b for 15 USD how about they offer 1.5b or 2b?
There's no problem with allowing players to pay for character transfers, portrait swaps and whatever else there is with plex. Can someone explain what the difference is between paying 15 USD with a credit card or 15 USD with PLEX? Is 15 USD paid by a credit card more even than 15 USD paid with PLEX, which was bought with a credit card to begin with? The only effect it might have is in game with prices rising. What is being totally missed is that portrait swap and character transfers are micro transactions.
And what's wrong with a new player coming along, remapping constantly to get the SP to hop in a faction fit Mac/Vindi/Rattlesnake/Nightmare and ending up on a KM seconds after undocking? Is anyone going to object to looting said players 3b loot? There's more to EVE than SP, something you lot forget.
There's a difference in allowing those with no credit card to pay with PLEX (15 USD) something that is being paid for with an actual credit card (15 USD). The real problem starts when CCP starts offering pretty ponies, unicorns or fairies for 15 USD/Euro's. Then we'll end up in micro transaction territory and that's where the game will go downhill, because most MMO's with such payment methods aren't worth playing (other than what's being offered in EVE). Once the game starts becoming imbalanced and everyone feels like they have to purchase little things to keep up with the rest the game might as well become F2P and declared dead.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.19 15:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Rainus Max How do you know this is going to go live on to Tranquillity?
How do you know this is not just the devs adding in some sisi functionality to improve testing by allowing you to remap more often and train skill quicker?
The crystal ball is a nice tool, problem is all the player owned ones are cracked and tend to reveal more bull excrement than anything.
Are you new to this game?
I have been around long enough (4 1/2 years) to know that what goes on the test server doesn't mean its automatically destined to go on to tranquillity.
In fact I remember a case a while ago were something popped on to the test server one day and everyone panicked, CCP eventually turned around and said it was an old item they were playing with in the test database that they then abandoned and someone in the last patch flicked the wrong switch and made sisi live.
My point is wait for CCP to confirm or deny its going live on Tranquillity before assuming its the end of the world, there has been alot of CCP effort going into making sisi better and this could just be one of those additions.
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Kephael
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.19 15:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Chribba WOW! That sucks major!
One step closer to SP for PLEX... This I don't enjoy hearing about.
/c
You're just upset it will cost around 5B a month to keep all your accounts active.
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Uwast
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Posted - 2010.09.19 16:00:00 -
[42]
That and he's whining about his awesome advantage from starting this game early going away (from the other thread):
Originally by: Chribba And that is a very sad thing from my pov, EVE always has been very special with the maturity (nevermind trolls) of the community, and the agening of pilots, when you see tendancies of being able to "buy" your way up, that will most def destroy most of what I think makes us pilots special from all other MMO players.
Newsflash, it is very easy to buy an "aged" character with $$$ through plex anyway, this change doesn't make that worse at all.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Alice Celadon I'm amazed that no one in the MD forum has spotted what this is really about.
CCP needs to get plex off the liabilities side of their balance sheet [currently there is a really huge glut of unused plex].
Why? Think about it this way: with plex piling up [people spending a lot of cash today, but not needing to a few months from now] it will soon be possible for CCP to have a quarter where THE PAYER BASE GROWS BUT REVENUE DOES NOT.
MD forum does not want to admit to this. If they spoke of how oversuppled PLEX is on tranquility the PLEX cash cow would die.
For CCP Neural remaps would be a great way to dispose of PLEX. They write a little code and stick it in game. Little time spent and an easy, no employee time used, PLEX sink.
I am not a fan of PLEX for remap, one of the aspects of Eve is that planning is as important as doing. PLEX remaps would have a negative effect that.
Until you see a Blog about this going into game this whole issue means nothing.
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Creiter
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:19:00 -
[44]
Has no one considered this to be a fix to attributes and learning skills? They are not being removed, its just giving you the option to reorganize more often. I personally think EVE's method of "leveling" is terribly boring, I have no input in the process other then putting the skills into the que and waiting. I don't want an insta-titan pilot, its just that there are so many basic intel/memory (tank, navigation, PG, CPU) and per/will (gun support, missile support, Ship command) that I want to get out of the way for the really interesting stuff that have reverse attributes (T2 ships) or oddball stats (Drones with mem/per or command ships requiring charisma). I spent the May-Aug this year just finishing capacitor and tank skills on the main character, working on light/med drones at the moment to deal with annoying frigs (nearly lost the vargur once to tacklers), and going to finish gun skills before buckling down for Marauder 5 during the holidays. I am estimating I will be done sometime around the 2 year aniversery of the character and rolling another character skilled towards cruiser sized ships right now, training the core ship skills over again is a grind I agonized over to the point I considered canceling a second sub until I decided to use an alt character to salvage right behind the marauder. I could just as easily buy a second character which I have zero interest in doing and you all wouldn't blink, but in the long run of training my own second character CCP gets more cash from a monthly sub then a 20 transfer fee from another player; the addition of a remap with plex is just an added incentive for me keep paying for my own character then to just buying one, even if CCP put a limit on how often you could purchase the remap I only need one more and to get it a bit sooner then one year after the second noob remap would make me content.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:22:00 -
[45]
I'm confused, why do some of you say that CCP considers PLEX to be a liability? Seeing how player purchase them and they all belong to CCP...
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Zea Aestria
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:31:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Brock Nelson I'm confused, why do some of you say that CCP considers PLEX to be a liability? Seeing how player purchase them and they all belong to CCP...
When people talk about "liability" they are referring to a balance sheet item for CCP the company. For accounting purposes, CCP has to carry the value of outstanding PLEX on their balance sheet because it is something that the company owes (to the PLEX holders until the PLEX are converted to game time).
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:47:00 -
[47]
Seeing how when a player purchase a PLEX, it is owned by CCP regardless and they don't owe the players anything.
How is that a liability?
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William Pierce
Caldari Blue Sun Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Seeing how when a player purchase a PLEX, it is owned by CCP regardless and they don't owe the players anything.
How is that a liability?
True, CCP could destroy/take all the plexes in game.
But they won't for obvious readons. Therefore it's a liability.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:09:00 -
[49]
"Liability In financial accounting, a liability is defined as an obligation of an entity arising from past transactions or events, the settlement of which may result in the transfer or use of assets, provision of services or other yielding of economic benefits in the future."
Ok, I can see how it can be a liability but like what the EULA says, all ingame items is owned by CCP and if they close today, they don't owe its player anything. So, it isn't a liability.
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My Entity
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: My Entity on 19/09/2010 20:15:05
Originally by: Brock Nelson Seeing how when a player purchase a PLEX, it is owned by CCP regardless and they don't owe the players anything.
How is that a liability?
It's the matter of accurate recognition of profit. Players can purchase PLEXs and CCP will receive cash, but it doesn't guarantee that CCP increased its actual income until the buyer spends it.
For example, think of a real life scenario. When a company makes a prepayment for leasing land or equipment, the receiving company records "increased cash," but she can't recognize the gain until the leaser partially/fully finishes the lease. Hence, the leasee credits "liability" and then reduces the liability accordingly/recognize "gain" when the service/lease is performed.
That applies to PLEX as well.
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Zea Aestria
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Ok, I can see how it can be a liability but like what the EULA says, all ingame items is owned by CCP and if they close today, they don't owe its player anything. So, it isn't a liability.
As long as PLEX can be turned in for game time, the conservative accounting treatment would be to continue to carry the value of the PLEX on the balance sheet as a liability. At the time that CCP shuts down Eve, the value of outstanding PLEX would probably be written off (assuming no compensation for holders of outstanding PLEX) - the liability would be removed from the balance sheet at that time.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: My Entity Edited by: My Entity on 19/09/2010 20:15:05
Originally by: Brock Nelson Seeing how when a player purchase a PLEX, it is owned by CCP regardless and they don't owe the players anything.
How is that a liability?
It's the matter of accurate recognition of profit. Players can purchase PLEXs and CCP will receive cash, but it doesn't guarantee that CCP increased its actual income until the buyer spends it.
For example, think of a real life scenario. When a company makes a prepayment for leasing land or equipment, the receiving company records "increased cash," but she can't recognize the gain until the leaser partially/fully finishes the lease. Hence, the leasee credits "liability" and then reduces the liability accordingly/recognize "gain" when the service/lease is performed.
That applies to PLEX as well.
Right. Imagine if there were exactly 100,000 EVE accounts and they all paid cash every month. This generates $1.5m a month. Now let's say suddenly people are able to buy PLEX, and 300,000 get bought. This produces $4.5m up front, but if all players use PLEX for the next three months, there is $0 new income produced during that time. Thus PLEX that have been paid for but not used yet have to be accounted for, because every PLEX bought but not used burns $ when it IS finally used, since it replaces a $15 payment that would have been received otherwise. ______________________________
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:37:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Ashina Sito on 19/09/2010 20:39:21
Originally by: Brock Nelson Seeing how when a player purchase a PLEX, it is owned by CCP regardless and they don't owe the players anything.
How is that a liability?
Simpler explanation.
The owner of the company I work for loves when people purchase gift certificates. You get money today and you don't have to provide the service for it, today.
When a gift certificate is redeemed, the owner stomps around ranting about working for "free" since they are getting no money today, they got it when the gift certificate was purchased.
With PLEX piling up (my estimate is 43,000 and counting atm) the price will eventually crash and they will have so little value people will start using them instead of paying with money. Now you have paying subs becoming "already paid" subs. Your earnings for that month plunge. Not such a good thing. (Selene D'Celeste's post covers this part.)
Another issue is rising costs. ATM, a sub is $15 USD. PLEX is a little above $17 USD. Lets say CCP raises the cost of a 30 day sub to $20 USD. Every single PLEX in the game is still worth 30 days of subscription but, CCP is looking at a loss of 3 bucks for every legacy PLEX that is in game when it is consumed.
PLEX in = PLEX out is the best deal for CCP. PLEX for neural remap would be a good PLEX out to help stem the oversupply. Good for CCP's accounting, bad for the game. They have to make that choice.
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Biocross
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Posted - 2010.09.19 22:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ashina Sito
Another issue is rising costs. ATM, a sub is $15 USD. PLEX is a little above $17 USD. Lets say CCP raises the cost of a 30 day sub to $20 USD. Every single PLEX in the game is still worth 30 days of subscription but, CCP is looking at a loss of 3 bucks for every legacy PLEX that is in game when it is consumed.
I lol'd there. Game subscription costs are going down, not up. Getting money now is a better deal for them than money in the future as it will be worth less due to A) inflation, and B) the current tendency of game subscription costs going down or disappearing altogether (f2p)
In a way you could see the current system as f2p for a lot of people whose money CCP will only see for the current (and new) 5 USD activation fee they are charging.
As long as it increases the playerbase and there is still interest in RMT then there is no way for CCP to lose as thats money they are getting that they wouldn't otherwise.
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Tanaka Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.20 01:49:00 -
[55]
No No No. The ability to spend real money for ingame goods is enough.
Remaps for PLEX is idential with selling SP for isk.
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Mishkaii
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Posted - 2010.09.20 02:31:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jana Tanaka No No No. The ability to spend real money for ingame goods is enough.
Remaps for PLEX is idential with selling SP for isk.
Just a way for new chars to catch up/have a better time without the ridiculous year wait for remaps.
300 mill isn't that much for that and just enough to see it not be abused.
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.20 04:25:00 -
[57]
I have to agree with other people: people have been able to purchase SP with money ever since you could sell GTCs for isk and purchase characters with isk and a transfer fee. This isn't really as revolutionary as it is evolutionary: now the player has more options.
People who either (a) don't put the time in or (b) don't put the money in have been behind for quite awhile now. _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente RAD BROMANCE
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Posted - 2010.09.20 05:28:00 -
[58]
I fully support the concept of PLEX for remaps, character transfers, and portrait swaps.
As long as it never becomes "trade a plex for X sp up front or a 200% learning speed boost that isn't stat-dependent" I don't really think there's a problem.
Originally by: Cobalt Sixty ...I've developed the personal opinion that most people who come to EVE Online expecting their personal morality to be reciprocated will ultimately be sorely disappointed.
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Squid Prime
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Posted - 2010.09.20 07:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Alice Celadon I'm amazed that no one in the MD forum has spotted what this is really about.
CCP needs to get plex off the liabilities side of their balance sheet [currently there is a really huge glut of unused plex].
Why? Think about it this way: with plex piling up [people spending a lot of cash today, but not needing to a few months from now] it will soon be possible for CCP to have a quarter where THE PAYER BASE GROWS BUT REVENUE DOES NOT.
This has nothing to do with RMT. In fact, CCP want plex prices to drop.
Spot on!
I read all posts up to yours and I kept scratching my head how can MD people pretend to be so blind? .It's been well known that plex piles kept rising and rising. Then CCP introduced ability to move plexes between stations...wow, made all items "non-special". Bullcrap. They just wanted to get rid of some of them. But not enough were/will get destroyed thus they add new functionality to plexes so demand will increase.
And to people whining about money/SP. What game are you playing? 'Cause it ain't EVE for sure. YOU COULD BUY SP WITH MONEY ALL ALONG. There, in caps for you. Buy GTC, turn into plex, sell plex for ISK, go to character bazaar. Yes, it is not SP for your own char but who cares anymore? EVE is a game of alts anyway.
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Taser Monkey
Against All Asteroids
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Posted - 2010.09.20 08:35:00 -
[60]
At the end of the day CCP have had their money, whether they get redeemed or not and it doesn't matter to them whether 100 plexes get bought today and used tomorrow or those same people buy every month, it's the same money. The only difference is in bookkeeping and perception and this system is entirely in CCP's benefit, because every plex destroyed is good for them.
While it's given a negative connotation with such negative words as liability it's no different than a player buying his/her time a years in advance.
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