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Printer Jam
Whine One One
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Posted - 2010.09.20 13:36:00 -
[31]
just fix the #!@$%!#@ plex system. |
GavinGoodrich
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.09.20 15:45:00 -
[32]
Regarding bubble mechanics and standings hits--I petitioned this one when I discovered it, and CCP replied back saying it was intentionally left in place. I don't agree with everything CCP does, but this makes some sense. It keeps FW pew pew in lowsec, where it's original intention was. You can afford to do a 0.0 roam with a dictor...once in a while. But not every day or week.
INCENTIVE FOR OCCUPANCY, YAY! DOOO EEEEET....there's a bajillion good ideas, from gate/station guns on the side of the occupant, taking away priveleges/docking rights/missions that spawn in safer systems/etc, make the FW missions have an impact on contesting sov, and ffs throw in some of that tasty sleeper AI on the plex/mission rats or something!
Perhaps if everybody went to the companies that do gaming reviews, etc, ranting thier heads off about the lack of service in this area given the # of players in it, they'd listen more. The 0.0 lag rantfest seemed to get thier attention...try it here!
\o |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2010.09.20 17:25:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: GavinGoodrich
Regarding bubble mechanics and standings hits--I petitioned this one when I discovered it, and CCP replied back saying it was intentionally left in place. I don't agree with everything CCP does, but this makes some sense. It keeps FW pew pew in lowsec, where it's original intention was. You can afford to do a 0.0 roam with a dictor...once in a while. But not every day or week.
INCENTIVE FOR OCCUPANCY, YAY! DOOO EEEEET....there's a bajillion good ideas, from gate/station guns on the side of the occupant, taking away priveleges/docking rights/missions that spawn in safer systems/etc, make the FW missions have an impact on contesting sov, and ffs throw in some of that tasty sleeper AI on the plex/mission rats or something!
Perhaps if everybody went to the companies that do gaming reviews, etc, ranting thier heads off about the lack of service in this area given the # of players in it, they'd listen more. The 0.0 lag rantfest seemed to get thier attention...try it here!
You can always use neutral alt to buble. Alts are solution to everything !
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Oathborne
Caldari
Genstar Inc
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Posted - 2010.09.20 21:34:00 -
[34]
Whew, sorry was AFK for a while. Did Damar say anything interesting? Or is he still out calling people idiots?
fake edit: oh nvmd, he's still ******ed. Carry on.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.20 22:05:00 -
[35]
Edited by: chatgris on 20/09/2010 22:10:27
Originally by: Ramingo
I guess asking you guys to stop the discussion about the plexing (in terms of who did what, not what needs to be changed/is bugged) would be futile?
Honoured, even though it means letting damar and BM have the last word :(. Not that it hasn't all been said elsewhere already.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.09.21 01:13:00 -
[36]
the elected leader option opens militias to being metagamed out of existence. If I get my alt elected leader of the Amarr, I could kick out all their members. No go.
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.22 08:32:00 -
[37]
This should be sticky till stuff gets fixed.
Glad to see they're changing rockets and presumably the doomsday at least. Now some attention to FW and a lot of players will be very happy!
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.24 08:55:00 -
[38]
bump
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.27 12:40:00 -
[39]
back to page 1!
Seriously, fix plexes ccp!
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.28 03:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Portmanteau on 28/09/2010 03:28:20
Originally by: Ramingo
- Add alliances to FW, or in the very least make a war dec vs a single FW corp much, much more expensive. Corps in alliances get this protection, but why can a single FW corp be singled out and war decced by an entire alliance?
alliances would ruin FW and turn it into 0,0 lite. I'd rather put up with the risk of a wardec (we are at war anyway ) than put up with huge bored alliances dropping caps everywhere and ruining FW for good. Absolutely awful idea
Quote:
- Add FW icons to allied militia, to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other. Both of the hostile militia show up as war targets, why can't the other allied militia have a friendly icon rather than appearing as neuts?
better idea
Quote:
- Reduce the effectiveness of RR alts in the opposing militia. Right now if you attack a RRer in your militia helping out the hostile militia, you take a huge faction standing hit for killing him. This is not fair and whilst not yet heavily abused, this will change sooner or later.
goodidea
Quote:
- Fix FW bubble standings issue in null/WH space.
- Give more incentives/rewards, or more faction standing possibilities to people already promoted to the highest rank. Being in FW a long time means you will eventually lose faction standing for shooting a friendly, but there's no more FW related way of recovering that standing. One should be able to pump it all the way to 10 in the long run, without having to drop FW and grind empire missions for storylines.
- Plexes:
- Make them worth fighting over, i.e. give LP, stat bonuses, or something. Anything other than a change of symbols in the overview.
- Balance NPCs. Caldari plexes are the toughest right now because of all the jamming (and I say this as a caldari FWer).
- Fix the bugging of timers, allowing 1 person to run down 20 plexes simultaneously in a system.
- Fix plex spawn times, so they appear throughout the day and not mostly right after DT. Also, fix it so that when server crashes repeatedly, this does not spawn new plexes. During expansions and subsequent server crashes throughout, this sometimes results in 20+ plexes being in each system, allowing for conquering a whole system within 30 minutes (instead of grinding for it over days/weeks).
Feel free to add onto this, if you can do it in bullet point style so I can just copy/paste them into the original thread for better oversight.
actually all the rest is ok just allowing alliances in is a very very very bad idea
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.28 05:07:00 -
[41]
If alliances want to join FW there's nothing stopping them from doing so. Cry Havoc hot dropped the caldari/gallente conflict like mad, PL are doing it on the amarr/minmatar theatre with their supercaps. The only thing I'd like to see is alliances not being able to war dec individual corps, or at least make it more expensive than a shabby 50 mill per week. Other corps coming to protect the decced corp however end up paying aggregate sums of hundreds of millions as each war dec increases the price of the next 1 quite dramatically. That and most FW corps are small compared to 0 sec corps to the isk/value of each war dec is even greater.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ramingo
to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other.
hahahahah
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:47:00 -
[43]
What's so funny? New players more than likely do not have proper overview settings set up (a few "vets" too at that), see a "neutral outlaw" and engage. Except that the neutral is often Caldari and the aggressor Amarr. Same for Matar/Gallente.
This is also a huge clusterf*** when there's a 4-way and pirates also involved.
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.28 13:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ramingo
If alliances want to join FW there's nothing stopping them from doing so. Cry Havoc hot dropped the caldari/gallente conflict like mad, PL are doing it on the amarr/minmatar theatre with their supercaps. The only thing I'd like to see is alliances not being able to war dec individual corps, or at least make it more expensive than a shabby 50 mill per week. Other corps coming to protect the decced corp however end up paying aggregate sums of hundreds of millions as each war dec increases the price of the next 1 quite dramatically. That and most FW corps are small compared to 0 sec corps to the isk/value of each war dec is even greater.
How is giving alliances (that join FW) a free wardec over every corp in 2 militias increasing the cost of wardeccing corps. I know it's cliche, but i really have to ask, U MAD ?
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.28 17:19:00 -
[45]
It's been suggested before that alliances joining FW can only do so if they don't hold sov, i.e. they have to drop it or lose it upon joining.
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.29 06:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ramingo
It's been suggested before that alliances joining FW can only do so if they don't hold sov, i.e. they have to drop it or lose it upon joining.
 why didn't you say that before, that seems quite plausible, still not 100 % sold, but i'm warming to it
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XVII Chandler
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.09.30 17:58:00 -
[47]
These changes would essentially fix FW.
1.) Make militia function like a normal alliance.
2.) Remove faction missions all together, and make it so that plexes reward LP. This would get rid of the massive amount of LP farmers from the militias, as well as actually reward people willing to PvP in plexes on fair terms. This would move fights (and blobbing) off of gates into the plexes where good fair fights can be had. In addition, for added incentive, allow stations in system to ONLY be used by neutrals or members of the militia that have sov in that system. In turn this would also stop opposing militias from setting up shop in owned systems and would form a frontline. Rewarding more LP for kills would also be nice.
3.) Allied militia (ie. gallente for minnie, caldari for amarr and vice versa) need to have their own symbols. The drama and uneccesary politics for blue on blue with allied is annoying.
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: XVII Chandler
2.) Remove faction missions all together, and make it so that plexes reward LP. This would get rid of the massive amount of LP farmers from the militias, as well as actually reward people willing to PvP in plexes on fair terms. This would move fights (and blobbing) off of gates into the plexes where good fair fights can be had.
Whilst this sounds tempting as the LP farmmers who do nothing for the war effort and drive down prices of LP goods are annoying, I'm not sure there would be enough plexes to prevent the militias from becoming paupers. People in FW need to be able to earn a good living if they wish to stay in it for any length of time so messing with that balance is problematic. Do we really want to tie our earnings to a system already soooo broken and exploitable ? Our earning could now be affected by stupid crap like plexing alt armies (lol xDIAx) and more specifically the post DT plex rush. While plexes get spawned and a majority of them run straight after DT leaving few for anyone not able to play at that time, it's hardly fair to remove missions and tie our income source to this broken pile of crap, srsly, not a good idea.
If you want a real way to drive off the combat evading alt farmers how about removing standings gains for missions and tying them to kills and plexing only, with a far greater emphasis on kills. In addition they could be made dynamic so that you can't just kill 20 enemy ships in a couple of blob engaements and then forget about combat as your standings will decrease over time if not maintained. Perhaps tricky to implement but better than tying LP to lolplexes I think
Quote:
In addition, for added incentive, allow stations in system to ONLY be used by neutrals or members of the militia that have sov in that system. In turn this would also stop opposing militias from setting up shop in owned systems and would form a frontline. Rewarding more LP for kills would also be nice.
This gets suggested quite a bit and in the past I have even thought it a good idea myself, but it's not, it will wreck small scale and solo pvp in an area of the game that is meant to foster it. Being unable to dock to to avoid blobs when solo or small scale will push people towards blobs as will being unable to repair after combat. There's enough RR blob combat in FW already, lets not make it so that it's the only viable style for roams into enemy systems... please ?
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:10:00 -
[49]
If they fix the DT spawning mechanic at the same time they remove FW missions - that would be awesome.
As it is now, patch day is always a treat, cause there's strategically available plexes in my TZ. It shouldn't be that I need to wait until a patch day to fully participate in fw.
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ramingo
- Add FW icons to allied militia, to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other. Both of the hostile militia show up as war targets, why can't the other allied militia have a friendly icon rather than appearing as neuts?
Just a couple points on this one - firstly you can set up a militia column on your overview to show the militia type of a pilot on grid.
Secondly, I understand your point on making opposite militia friendly but actually I don't think it would work well in practice. If its just an icon thing then sure but - making a whole new militia non-shootable without standing losses would be a real pain in the butt and whether or not an individual/corp is friendly with its opposite number should be a choice. - Not sure if that is what you are suggesting ofc, just crossed my mind when I saw that point.
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>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
Greg6
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: GavinGoodrich....
INCENTIVE FOR OCCUPANCY, YAY! DOOO EEEEET....there's a bajillion good ideas, from gate/station guns on the side of the occupant, taking away priveleges/docking rights/missions that ...
Actually I've come to the point where I think adding an incentive for occupancy right now would be a *very* bad idea. The plexing mechanics are far too broken to attach any ingame consequence to FW occupancy at the moment. Long before any incentive is added to plexing the spawning mechanics must be fixed. Right now the down time bump is simply too significant to support any additional incentives being added to fW system occupancy.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.01 15:57:00 -
[52]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/10/2010 16:02:18
I for one am happy there are FW mission alts running around. That means more targets with better drops (covert ops cloaking devices, named missile launchers).
The most fun times are when CCP botches the code after a patch and the missions all end up in one or two systems. This concentrates efforts on both sides usually at the expense of the alt-mission runners. Lots of fun kills of mission runners, and lots of fun running missions with pirates trying to stop you.
Missions should count towards occupancy in the same way as closing a plex, and victory points should count as loyalty points. That way the plexers would be compensated at a fair rate for their efforts, and USTZ players would be able to have some sort of effect on system occupancy.
Remove requirement that a plex needs to have the same NPCs as the side which occupies the system. This would allow for more plexes to respawn throughout the day in all systems. Then re-adjust NPCs during downtime like they usually do.
Edit: Varying the mechanics a bit is a good thing and adds variety. For example, take two days a month (at random) and put all the missions into a couple systems. Take another two days a month and load up a couple systems with tons of plexes. The boys will figure out where these systems are soon enough and you'll get some nice fights for a while. Long term something like this is not a good idea, but it's a great change of pace.
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XVII Chandler
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.10.01 16:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: XVII Chandler
2.) Remove faction missions all together, and make it so that plexes reward LP. This would get rid of the massive amount of LP farmers from the militias, as well as actually reward people willing to PvP in plexes on fair terms. This would move fights (and blobbing) off of gates into the plexes where good fair fights can be had.
Whilst this sounds tempting as the LP farmmers who do nothing for the war effort and drive down prices of LP goods are annoying, I'm not sure there would be enough plexes to prevent the militias from becoming paupers. People in FW need to be able to earn a good living if they wish to stay in it for any length of time so messing with that balance is problematic. Do we really want to tie our earnings to a system already soooo broken and exploitable ? Our earning could now be affected by stupid crap like plexing alt armies (lol xDIAx) and more specifically the post DT plex rush. While plexes get spawned and a majority of them run straight after DT leaving few for anyone not able to play at that time, it's hardly fair to remove missions and tie our income source to this broken pile of crap, srsly, not a good idea.
If you want a real way to drive off the combat evading alt farmers how about removing standings gains for missions and tying them to kills and plexing only, with a far greater emphasis on kills. In addition they could be made dynamic so that you can't just kill 20 enemy ships in a couple of blob engaements and then forget about combat as your standings will decrease over time if not maintained. Perhaps tricky to implement but better than tying LP to lolplexes I think
Quote:
In addition, for added incentive, allow stations in system to ONLY be used by neutrals or members of the militia that have sov in that system. In turn this would also stop opposing militias from setting up shop in owned systems and would form a frontline. Rewarding more LP for kills would also be nice.
This gets suggested quite a bit and in the past I have even thought it a good idea myself, but it's not, it will wreck small scale and solo pvp in an area of the game that is meant to foster it. Being unable to dock to to avoid blobs when solo or small scale will push people towards blobs as will being unable to repair after combat. There's enough RR blob combat in FW already, lets not make it so that it's the only viable style for roams into enemy systems... please ?
Yes the plex system is indeed broken, this obviously needs fixing without debate. I was thinking that maybe in a system there could be some type of master plex, that when triggered/captured it activated all of the other plexes in a system. This plex would need to take considerably longer than normal plexes to capture, and when an enemy is attempting to capture it an alert broadcast could be sent out to militia chat or something like that. Once activated all plexes in the system would open up for a short amount of time (say, 10 mins) unless occupied by enemies, in which case they would need to be pushed out of the plex and the plex would need to be defended. Of course LP needs to be rewarded for defending plexes as well as taking them.
Without a doubt though, FW missions need to go. Even if they dont change plexes and the system, at the very least LP rewards for kills need to be improved.
As for the stations, I really dont think it would discourage small scale PvP at all. Nobody likes station games, and small scale baiting on stations is both annoying and frustrating. Any combat that happens on a station as it is, is a bait or a station camp. Plexes would encourage small scale PvP, or at the very least fair PvP without warp in blobbing.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.01 16:16:00 -
[54]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/10/2010 16:21:46
You guys are crazy. FW missions are the bomb and need to stay.
1. You remain in low sec for isk grinding. There's a chance for some pew pew (more fun). More than one stealth bomber has been nailed at mission entrances and at gates while jumping through systems. More than one pie or wt has griefed mission runners.
2. It's way more lucrative than empire L4s - which it SHOULD be since the missions are in low sec.
Do you really want us doing planetary interaction or running L4s out of Motsu for longer periods of time, or do you want us doing more pew pew? If you want less time pew pewing, then go ahead and advocate getting rid of the missions.
If anything, get rid of plexes and replace them with missions. Orbit button endlessly (15-20 mins) vs. roaming low sec? I'll roam low sec and have fun instead thank you.
Edit: There's nothing stopping anybody from grabbing a mission and using it exactly like a plex for potential fights.
Edit 2: w.r.t stations. It's ridiculous that Caldari can use FDU stations and Gallente can use State Protectorate stations. Alliances can lock opponents out of their stations. The same should hold for militias. What this means is that ALL OTHER stations would be available to all militia members - just the militia stations would be off limits. Afterall it's the FDU vs. the State Protectorate and not Ishukone vs Duvolle Labs.
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.10.01 17:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/10/2010 16:21:46
You guys are crazy. FW missions are the bomb and need to stay.
1. You remain in low sec for isk grinding. There's a chance for some pew pew (more fun). More than one stealth bomber has been nailed at mission entrances and at gates while jumping through systems. More than one pie or wt has griefed mission runners.
2. It's way more lucrative than empire L4s - which it SHOULD be since the missions are in low sec.
Do you really want us doing planetary interaction or running L4s out of Motsu for longer periods of time, or do you want us doing more pew pew? If you want less time pew pewing, then go ahead and advocate getting rid of the missions.
If anything, get rid of plexes and replace them with missions. Orbit button endlessly (15-20 mins) vs. roaming low sec? I'll roam low sec and have fun instead thank you.
Edit: There's nothing stopping anybody from grabbing a mission and using it exactly like a plex for potential fights.
Edit 2: w.r.t stations. It's ridiculous that Caldari can use FDU stations and Gallente can use State Protectorate stations. Alliances can lock opponents out of their stations. The same should hold for militias. What this means is that ALL OTHER stations would be available to all militia members - just the militia stations would be off limits. Afterall it's the FDU vs. the State Protectorate and not Ishukone vs Duvolle Labs.
I never said get rid of missions, i said that standings for missions should be accumulated via kills, no kills in recent memory ... no standigs for level 4s
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.10.01 17:59:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Portmanteau on 01/10/2010 18:08:35
Originally by: XVII Chandler
As for the stations, I really dont think it would discourage small scale PvP at all. Nobody likes station games, and small scale baiting on stations is both annoying and frustrating. Any combat that happens on a station as it is, is a bait or a station camp. Plexes would encourage small scale PvP, or at the very least fair PvP without warp in blobbing.
you are misunderstanding me, as a soloer and small ganger I can assure you that lack of ability to dock and repair would put a severe dampener on roams into enemy territory. You would have to take a logi with you to rep after fights or burn back to home space just to rep. It is completely unviable for anyone who solos or does small frig/cruiser gangs, you don't always want to have a logi around just to repair after fights.
Quote:
Edit 2: w.r.t stations. It's ridiculous that Caldari can use FDU stations and Gallente can use State Protectorate stations. Alliances can lock opponents out of their stations. The same should hold for militias. What this means is that ALL OTHER stations would be available to all militia members - just the militia stations would be off limits. Afterall it's the FDU vs. the State Protectorate and not Ishukone vs Duvolle Labs.
That would be acceptable
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