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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.09.24 00:01:00 -
[1]
One thing I've heard from other players is that CCP is considering making PI resources move around on the planet as a deterrence for botters.
If that's the case, that will just make PI portion of the game even more unplayable. Given that PI isn't really user friendly and making resources shift around on the planet just make it more unplayable.
Please tell me it isn't true... |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.24 00:20:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Clown Pron
Please tell me it isn't true...
If I did I might be right or wrong. The only way to know 100% is to wait and see what CCP does.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.09.24 00:21:00 -
[3]
CCP was never about making things playable, just making things "unbottable"
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Starch Thornwald
Peniston Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.09.24 00:59:00 -
[4]
Thought I read somewhere that they are making extractors movable, and more easily so.
Still, why make the deposits move and take away Dust's reason for conflict?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.24 01:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Starch Thornwald
Still, why make the deposits move and take away Dust's reason for conflict?
Perhaps thats the counter for the dust players?
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.09.24 01:50:00 -
[6]
Try harder or cancel your account if isn't easy enough. Over time the deposit will deplete, on one planet I noticed I was getting 1100 even the other day. Its now 1090 or there abouts. So its not going to vaporize over night. This is highsec. If your lulsec or nullsec you might not even notice it. What was once a good spawn may become crap, but if you check again around the planet you might get an even better spot then before you first set up shop.
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.09.24 02:11:00 -
[7]
Sorry but that isn't even anywhere near true. My extraction rate hasn't changed at all with the planets I have in the wh. It's more likely that someone's setup a shop next to yours. |
Kezzle
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Posted - 2010.09.24 09:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brock Nelson CCP was never about making things playable, just making things "unbottable"
Wot, like mining?
It is to laugh.
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Makko Gray
Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.09.24 09:51:00 -
[9]
From what is on the test server currently it looks like extracters are gone in place of extractor control units in which case it become much easier to deal with moving resources, you'll also be able to upgrade command centers by the looks of it. Still very much a work in progress from what I've seen.
Screen grab
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clown Pron Sorry but that isn't even anywhere near true. My extraction rate hasn't changed at all with the planets I have in the wh. It's more likely that someone's setup a shop next to yours.
I don't believe this has ever been confirmed to occur either. It's more likely that he either looked at a different extractor at different times, or just forgot what it was producing.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.24 21:07:00 -
[11]
it happens but you realy have to be heckbent on stacking every possible extractor on accounts in the same feild and even then the diference is not that noticable
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.24 21:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Makko Gray
Screen grab
They reverted back for the "mass test" but thats going to be unreverted monday. hopefully they fix the bugs so that you can actualy upgrade and extract at that point as well
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2010.09.25 03:57:00 -
[13]
I spend way too much time running around in lo-sec getting stuff from my 5 planets and resetting extractors 3-4 times a day. The profit doesn't merit any more effort than I'm putting in, and if CCP wants to make this more than a pain than it already is, I'll go another direction.
Other than POS fuels, there's no Isk in PI anyway.
Unless the expansion rescues PI and makes it worth the time and hassle, I see a lot of people who've put a lot into it getting burned out and letting their colonies go dormant.
YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED. |
Latrodanes
Independent Combat Support Services
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Posted - 2010.09.25 04:50:00 -
[14]
From Ten Ton Hammer interview
TTH: Is there anything you are thinking of including to planets more accessible or exciting to players?
Noah: What we have been focusing on lately with planetary interaction is making it a more fun gameplay experience. We have been looking at taking out some of the repetitive-stress inducing "clickiness" that it can have. Like when you need to select ten extractors and have each one survey the planet, and then it is like five clicks each. We are looking at how we can improve that mechanic and make it less clicking and more of the initial gameplay where you are setting up your colony and finding out where you want to put your extractors. That is the more fun part, anyway.
So you will be able to move around your extractors. There will be a thing called an Extractor Control Unit that will have its own UI that controls all of your extractors at once, so that you do not have to do all this clicking. The other thing is that you can now upgrade your command centers without having to destroy your entire colony, which was pretty boring. (Emphasis added)
Linky: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/89866
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http://latrosbunker.blogspot.com |
Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.25 09:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Latrodanes From Ten Ton Hammer interview
TTH: Is there anything you are thinking of including to planets more accessible or exciting to players?
Noah: What we have been focusing on lately with planetary interaction is making it a more fun gameplay experience. We have been looking at taking out some of the repetitive-stress inducing "clickiness" that it can have. Like when you need to select ten extractors and have each one survey the planet, and then it is like five clicks each. We are looking at how we can improve that mechanic and make it less clicking and more of the initial gameplay where you are setting up your colony and finding out where you want to put your extractors. That is the more fun part, anyway.
So you will be able to move around your extractors. There will be a thing called an Extractor Control Unit that will have its own UI that controls all of your extractors at once, so that you do not have to do all this clicking. The other thing is that you can now upgrade your command centers without having to destroy your entire colony, which was pretty boring. (Emphasis added)
Linky: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/89866
Anything that improves the playability of extraction is a good thing but it only solves one of the big problems of PI. The other elephant in the room is the fundamental supply-demand imbalance causing the value of anything that is not POS fuel to be near worthless (below the cost of production). Improving the game play of extraction will only make this worse, because it will remove the primary objection to continued play, boredom.
It is absolutely essential that CCP do something to address that imbalance. It is not feasible to simply reduce production because there are still large stocks of goods bought from NPCs. Instead the only viable solution is to do something to increase demand for the end products, Advanced Commodities. I think that means one of these three things.
1) Release new blueprints that require Advanced Commodities in their manufacture. Planatary Command Centers are the obvious candidate to require PI goods. However while a step in the right direction of increasing demand it doesn't solve the entire problem, the volume will simply be too small, unless there is a significant means of attrition, which without Dust doesn't seem likely.
2) Modify existing blueprints to use some Advanced Commodities, the most obvious candidates would be Capital ships. The new Mother ship class might be one option but it is rather immersion breaking to only require these for a single ship and not other similar ships.
3) Introduce another mode of consumption, other than manufacture. The obvious candidate here would be maintenance missions, were Planatary Command Centers (perhaps even POS and outposts) could automatically issue a mission to obtain a replacement X (an Advanced Commodity) to continue to operate at maximum efficiency or for a short term boost like R&D missions.
To me the most viable option of rescuing the PI economy is requiring Advanced Commodity for Capital ship production however the howls of protest from the large powerful alliances upset by such a change make this seem unlikely.
So unless something else happens the PI economic crash looks set to continue for the foreseeable future.
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2010.09.25 11:10:00 -
[16]
I'll agree with Mossari, in that non-POS related PI production just gives industrialists stuff to build for which there is no demand. And the POS stuff continues to drop in price, making each week's production worth less.
PI was to be a boon for players not involved in null-sec alliances, giving them a chance at making industry worthwhile. (T1 and T2 production hardly worth the effort due to non-existent profits.)
As it is, PI is just a time sink to keep players logging on many times daily and hoping all their efforts will reach fruition. It's just a job, the fun factor non-existent, and a continuing victim of diminishing returns.
YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED. |
Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.09.25 12:10:00 -
[17]
I'll reiterate what I had said previously - the best way to fix PI, is to give players other things to do with the planets. Of course, this is just another method of reducing supply... but it's not impossible that these "other things" could include colonies that actually demand PI goods be imported.
What could a player get from such a colony? ISK is an obvious answer, but as there are already enough ISK fountains in the game - I'm going to go with other things.
Maybe science colonies that can research or copy blue prints. obviously this would have some impact upon POS/Stations - but it isn't as though blue print research is only done in one location.
That brings up manufacturing slots. Not a lot, and for people who immediately shoot these ideas down - these are the kinds of facilities that DUST mercs would more likely be interested in shooting. Not to mention, people can already do manufacturing in stations - but in 0.0, that doesn't apply to everyone. or WH's.
Besides Industrial means - Planets could also be used to give bonuses to the pilot. Maybe you could create an exploration colony that improves probing results for the owner if they are in the same system.
Maybe Storage. No station/POS in a player's favorite ratting system? Have a colony that has warehouses to store loot.
There are many many many things which planets can be used for, beyond just for POS fuels. The more choices players are given, the fewer people will do POS fuels just because it is the only game in town. ---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
DarkStar1128
Minmatar House Celtae Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.09.25 13:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: DarkStar1128 on 25/09/2010 13:33:55
Originally by: Ari Chu
That brings up manufacturing slots. Not a lot, and for people who immediately shoot these ideas down - these are the kinds of facilities that DUST mercs would more likely be interested in shooting. Not to mention, people can already do manufacturing in stations - but in 0.0, that doesn't apply to everyone. or WH's.
In null or whs you use arrays to maunfacture items / ships at. I've personally never found an issue with this method if you know what you're doing.
The rest however I agree with, there needs to be more to PI, but really what can be added without taking something away from another aspect of the game?
Only thing I've ever found PI useful for is making POS fuel in null sec, never tried putting a command center in high sec but from what I've heard it must not net you much isk. From a couple toons running a few planets each you can save millions of isk in fuel costs and logistics for your poss though.
Edit: Reworded a bit
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Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.09.25 20:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DarkStar1128 Edited by: DarkStar1128 on 25/09/2010 13:33:55 In null or whs you use arrays to maunfacture items / ships at. I've personally never found an issue with this method if you know what you're doing.
Not if you are just some average grunt. You need roles to set up POS, and stations might not be in a location that is useful to you or might have restrictions on who can use them. ---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.09.26 02:44:00 -
[20]
If you can't make money using PI, it's because you can't use a spread sheet.
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Soldarius
Independent Coalition DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.09.26 10:07:00 -
[21]
I seem to recall CCP saying that they would move more trade items into PI chains. cba to find the quote. But seeding more BPOs for stuff that is currently produced by NPCs would help with that. Capitol ship production items seems like a good choice. Maybe cap ships will become so valuable that they won't be blobbing battles anymore. "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
Lirinas
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Posted - 2010.09.26 17:44:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lirinas on 26/09/2010 17:49:00 I do agree - there does need to be more options to PI than just making POS fuel. Manufacturing of small items (modules & equipment), researching blueprints, storage of goods, and perhaps even item refinery are all certainly good candidates for PI additions.
Also, to give some of the PI goods more use, they can be used in some of these "advanced" PI facilities - such as a Planetary Research Center, or perhaps a sub-orbital cargo ship to allow for the shipment of larger payloads than a Custom's Office can handle. There's a slew of possibilities that can be done with PI.
Changing existing blueprints to use PI materials is certainly a possibility, but I don't think that should be limited to just Capital Ships. An old-timer was pointing out not long ago that the Industry side of EVE is something of a patchwork of different manufacturing systems that have little interaction with each other, and that the ENTIRE manufacturing//industry system could use a make-over, to make all of the different manufacturing systems (Tech 1, Tech 2, Tech 3, PI, T2 Reactions, T3 Reactions, etc...) a more homogenized system, as opposed to several separate systems that have little impact on each other.
Although I want to see the base PI system improved in usability first. The first snippets I've seen look promising, but it's too soon to tell.
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Mike TheMiner
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Posted - 2010.09.26 18:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kanatta Jing If you can't make money using PI, it's because you can't use a spread sheet.
Why do i need a spreadsheet ? Im playing a game and i make plenty without going near anything remotely like a "spreadsheet" I do love how the spreadsheet brigade actually enjoy using these things, spreadsheets sound too much like work to me and the thought of consulting one in a video game brings me out in blisters. Each to his own eh.
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Merbusent
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Posted - 2010.09.26 20:24:00 -
[24]
Firstly, I thought this did happen under inspection it hasn't but that it does make a rather fun interpretation of the solar systems they have created.
The patterns are wuite measurable to direction however most of the planets accept terran look to be planets with vast geological features which might resemble tides or masses which fluctuate in excess of time periods seen on terran planets.
Its really exciting to work through the teir groups just for the interplanetary systems with its abundance of players.. well 0.0 really.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.09.27 22:54:00 -
[25]
Now, I'm no industrialist (as many of you probably know)... but it seems to me you are missing an option in the above discussion to make PI interesting for players.
That option is consumables.
Let us make drugs/boosters/ "nitro injectors" for MWDs/ new Specialty ammunition, things like that. Short term gameplay boost items that have a single use.
I think that would be a splendid use of PI.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.27 23:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/09/2010 23:28:37 Franly my dear C P I dont think the developers, when you get right down to it, have a bloody clue as to what to do with it since from the start the only "new" things made with PI besides pos fuel(Ice mineing part 2) and T2 bits(from the looks of it that was more of a happy accident than any deliberate action on there part) were station kibble and bits. heck I remember them being startled when someone sudgested that they could add the various containers to the production lineup because they hadnt thought of it.
honestly before long the only people who will bother with it are the people who actualy need stuff for there own produciton. and Im suspecting that shortly after dust goes live it will be npc alts in the newbicorps parked in empire doing it for them just so they dont have to bother with the hastle.
Seriously its like they ran out of ideas the instant they decided to start developing it. Kind of reminds me of that youtube vidio where the "Developmenet team for DN:F is sitting around a table with everyone more or less lost in thought and someone suddenly perked up and said I know! Lets Add Stripers! and everyone jerks awake and starts working furiously on that concept for a couple of seconds before they remember its not a new idea and they laps into a pot coma again.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Ari Chu
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Posted - 2010.09.28 07:19:00 -
[27]
I know that I'm unable to describe just how much of a disappointment PI turned out to be. I was excited at first, because I expected CCP to immediately lay out some plans on how they were going to expand the system to being more than just about making fuels - but they didn't. Instead they were genuinely surprised when people told them their current system sucked.
I know that I wanted Planetary colonization since the very beginning of my exploring space - but I wasn't looking for a way to mine; I was looking for building cities and using all the NPC cargo bits as ways of controlling landmasses. I also had some vague (and not so vague) notions on how the SOV system in 0.0 should be influenced by planetary control of individuals.
But it was not to be. Instead CCP just gave us another way to mine. My only real question, now, is whether I can get all the SPs that I put into PI, back. Sure, I trained up Starbase Defense and have used it so little that it could be considered a waste - but I don't regret training it. I do regret training for PI. ---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
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