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Leentje lee
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.24 14:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 14:53:49 Heya,
I've been wondering lately what ship (one that can cloak) would be most suited for a surprise attack on can flippers. (Could be anything, from frigates to battleship size)
Say you're mining at an alt, and you and a friend from your corporation are sitting there in the belt waiting for a can flipper to pass, and when he turns red, you strike.
What ship duo would perform the best? Would two cloaked tengu's be most dangerous? Two black ops? Mabe two stealth bombers? (I don't think so because you will need a point) Or maby a combination?
I would apriciate some input^_^.
Thanks in advance, Leentje
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Shica Siouxe
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Posted - 2010.09.24 15:02:00 -
[2]
What's wrong with putting a point on an SB?
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Leentje lee
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.24 15:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shica Siouxe What's wrong with putting a point on an SB?
Well, I thought their 'best' weapon was to nuke something from far away, and I suspect they're rather 'squishy' so getting in close and personal wouldn't be advisable:-). Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking torpedo SB yes, not one with cruise missles.
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Darcon Kylote
Terminal Impact Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2010.09.24 15:20:00 -
[4]
It doesn't have to be cloaky. Make a safespot 1000km above the belt (offgrid). Wait there in whatever ships you like. When he turns flashy, point him with the bait mining ship, and warp in the gank squad. -- Terminal Impact is recruiting PVPers for fun ops in lowsec/0.0/wormhole space. Visit our website or join ingame channel "the tict pub". |
Leentje lee
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.24 15:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 15:45:49 Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 15:45:12
Originally by: Darcon Kylote It doesn't have to be cloaky. Make a safespot 1000km above the belt (offgrid). Wait there in whatever ships you like. When he turns flashy, point him with the bait mining ship, and warp in the gank squad.
I wouldn't want to point him with my hulk or orca or whatever. The purpose of the ship should be to sit their cloaked, the 'baiting' ships will be a gang of hulks jetcan mining, with orca support in the belt tractoring those cans.
Now say some person turns flashy, and we're all in the same player corporation... the characters who're not in that specific mining fleet will get kill rights, correct? (The black ops for instance) Or am I totally off there...
Because if we need to be in the same fleet, attacking them would jeopardize those miners safety and that's not the point.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:56:00 -
[6]
I think you need to go read up on basics of aggro mechanics before you question people giving you valid advice.
Black ops are completely unnecessary and actually a bad choice for this role. In busy systems you don't need to be on grid you can just be in a near safe as mentioned aligned to warp in. It will be no worse coming in off grid than decloaking and trying to lock. The point of taking aggro with the hulk is to get a point on the ships before you bbq them. relying on ship warpin or decloak and lock is ineffective as chances are they will simply GTFO when they see you on grid.
If the flippers are not complete mongs they will know you are in local whether you are cloaked or not. ~_~
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leentje lee Now say some person turns flashy, and we're all in the same player corporation... the characters who're not in that specific mining fleet will get kill rights, correct? (The black ops for instance) Or am I totally off there...
Because if we need to be in the same fleet, attacking them would jeopardize those miners safety and that's not the point.
If you are both in the same player corp, it doesn't matter. As soon as the jetcan is emptied by the basement rat, they will go flashy red to who ever is in the corp. Now, if your using this character to mine in a HULK while in CAS npc corp (best corp!) no body can assist you. If you in a player corp, you can avoid all canflipping by just dropping the ore straight into the corp hanger which requires you to hover around the orca. Fit some buffer and hope you don't get discoed to death
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 24/09/2010 17:03:42 I won't serenade you with Diseney Songs but I will suggest the Pilgram!
It is a great Anti Frig device, but an Arbitrator will do, just fleet with the miner and warp in. You should be close enough to get point, web and nuet. I have a dual RR Nuet set-up you might like!
Eve Mail if you want fits I don't have time to write them out! -- Alara's Law!
As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1 |
Leentje lee
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 17:13:11 Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 17:12:03 Firstly, I should've read up on basic agro rules yes. But thanks for explaining those though;-).
But say you're being can flipped by some HAC, and you get a point on him with a hulk... when he sees your support warp in, he might just decide that he will die anyway, and just try to focus fire that hulk... and I can really see my hulk getting destroyed in that scenario.
But I guess a ship with a cloak isn't needed yeah, in that case... what ship duo would be the best? A pilgrim or curse and some zealot fitted for pure DPS or something?
Edit: Me wants disney songs
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Leentje lee
Edit: Me wants disney songs
I can show you the Belt Shining, shimmering, scordite Tell me, Leentje, now when did You last let your 425mm's decide?
I can open your eyes Take you wonder by wonder Over, sideways and under On a magic capsule ride
A whole new belt A new fantastic point of view No one to tip your can Or tell you where to mine Or say we're only carebearing
A whole new belt A dazzling place I never knew But when I'm way up here It's crystal clear That now I'm in a whole new belt with you Now I'm in a whole new belt with you
Unbelievable Ores Indescribable Profits Warrior II's soaring, tumbling and freewheeling Through an endless diamond Belt
A whole new Belt Don't you dare close your eyes A hundred thousand trit to see Hold your breath - it gets better I'm like a shooting star I've come so far I can't Mine back to where I used to be
A whole new Belt Every roid a surprise With new horizons to pursue Every moment a new RR I'll chase them anywhere ECM gives me time to spare Let me share this whole new Belt with you
A whole new Belt That's where I'll be A thrilling chase A wondrous place To Mine free
-- Alara's Law!
As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1 |
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:50:00 -
[11]
...Backs away slowly, turns, and dives for the nearest wormhole... |
Leentje lee
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.09.24 18:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Leentje lee
Edit: Me wants disney songs
I can show you the Belt Shining, shimmering, scordite Tell me, Leentje, now when did You last let your 425mm's decide?
I can open your eyes Take you wonder by wonder Over, sideways and under On a magic capsule ride
A whole new belt A new fantastic point of view No one to tip your can Or tell you where to mine Or say we're only carebearing
A whole new belt A dazzling place I never knew But when I'm way up here It's crystal clear That now I'm in a whole new belt with you Now I'm in a whole new belt with you
Unbelievable Ores Indescribable Profits Warrior II's soaring, tumbling and freewheeling Through an endless diamond Belt
A whole new Belt Don't you dare close your eyes A hundred thousand trit to see Hold your breath - it gets better I'm like a shooting star I've come so far I can't Mine back to where I used to be
A whole new Belt Every roid a surprise With new horizons to pursue Every moment a new RR I'll chase them anywhere ECM gives me time to spare Let me share this whole new Belt with you
A whole new Belt That's where I'll be A thrilling chase A wondrous place To Mine free
Hahahaha, thank you, thank you
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Tortonax Troodont
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Posted - 2010.09.24 19:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tortonax Troodont on 24/09/2010 19:37:00 I use an alt mining in a cruiser, fitted with web and scram, at least two mining lasers and a mining drone so that it looks fairly legit, and as much of an armor tank as I can fit.
The combat character is waiting at the gate in an adjacent system, in case the flipper actually knows what he's doing and looks for corp mates of the miner in local. After the flipper does his deed he'll wait around for a little bit, in case the miner is afk - this gives you all the time you need to jump into the system and warp to the belt.
While the combat character is warping to the belt the mining alt targets the flipper, webs and scrams. Combat character shows up and blows up the target.
I use a Harbinger for actual kill ship. It'll handle almost anything a flipper would be willing to use, is fast enough to loot and leave quickly, and it's insurable in case I screw up somehow (which will happen, one of these days).
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Makko Gray
Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.09.24 22:32:00 -
[14]
If you have support an arazu would be a good one to cloak in belt, long range disrupt plus damps can keep your target pinned and helpless while you support hops in to provide dps. Can work against cruisers and above anyway but target delays on the recons isn't going to help. If you forget the cloak lachesis can give you long disrupt and scram with a reasonable tank to keep you going until support arrive, if you forget damps you can sensor boost it for quicker lock times and make it a pure heavy tackler. Long range scram also has the advantage that if you land on quick frigates and are good you can reduce their chances of escaping with the long scram.
To combine with those you then just want something that can put the dps on, if flying with an arazu then dps at range can be good so you're protected by the arazus damping in which case a sentry ishtar could fill the role. If going with the tackle lachesis then something big and nasty like a blaster brutix will put the hurt on.
You can tell I only really fly gallente.
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Le Badass
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Posted - 2010.09.25 02:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Le Badass on 25/09/2010 02:18:58 Wow... What ppl suggest of ships... You need an Avatar to bait miners, dude. No seriously... What you need is a ship which can fit this: 1 small neut 1 medium neut 2 or more mining lasers 2-3 mining drones a flight (3-5) light drones, preferably T2, but it's not vital a DC and 800mm rolled tungsten plate.
Then what you do is read my post in this thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1384351
What are the implications of this? A char a few months old can do can baiting. Most of his targets will be in frigate sized vessels, because the flippers know (and so should you) that if their ship is bigger than a frigate, or possibly a destroyer, you just warp off, and write off the can. If you need more info, send me a mail ingame and I'll contact you.
EDIT: You don't need a cloak. Just target the flipper. They won't warp off, getting aggro is their goal, remember? Just make sure they're in neut range.
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2010.09.25 13:44:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Arnakoz on 25/09/2010 13:47:51 what is your end goal here?
if you;re just looking for good pvp targets, any of the above suggestions would work just fine.
However, if you think you will prevent them from flipping you... being a former miner myself I feel compelled to warn you: most pirates will make a career of griefing you and/or your corp if you try to fight back. You'll likely spend weeks being camped in stations; unable to really play. If you put up a good fight, they will keep the war dec going as you are now a fun war target.
but moreover, if you are successful in anti-pirate campaigns as a corp or even alliance.. the masses of pirates and mercs will, with fair efficiency, knock the crap out of you for being a carebear...
if you really want to get around piracy... don't drop cans. However... if mining solo, going back to the station 5-10 times an hour is a huge waste... you'll generally lose only one can or so every week .. which is nothing compared to the extra you've been making by jetcanning.... so just let em go. Plus, with time you'll learn who to watch for in local...
My personal solution was to learn more PVP skills and join a nullsec alliance. in null you always know who to watch out for - anyone who isn't blue. and everyone in local will let you know if you need to warp to safety. Plus ratting earns much more than mining. more than double even.
good luck. |
Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.25 13:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shica Siouxe What's wrong with putting a point on an SB?
you want to use an SB for someone who'll likely be in a rifter ? get ready for having ur day ruined
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 04/10/2010 14:00:15 Edited by: Diesel47 on 04/10/2010 13:59:28 Tanked osprey with point and T2 Light drones as bait, T3 crusier with cloak sitting at optimal firing range to the jetcan.
Instant win.
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Mercie Orion
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Posted - 2010.10.04 16:59:00 -
[19]
I can't hardly imagine someone trying to can flip in a HAC, I mean really, if they have the skills invested to actually fly a HAC, they probably have better things to do with that ship then flip miners cans. Like ninja salvage and get the more juicy targets.
MOST can flippers are going to be in frigs, So, if you are "Planning" on catching a can flipper, you don't need some black ops, or T3 ship to kill a frig that probably isn't worth more then a few mil. after fittings. All you need is to tank your HULK, cuz if you are talking about black ops then you probably can afford and have a hulk to mine in. So tank it and fit a disruptor. Then have a drake sitting off grid fit with AML's and T2 warrior drones, with a scram and 2 webs.
The frig will probably be orbiting you, or your can, so once you get the drake in warp, RIGHT before he lands on grid pop the disrupt on the frig, he is going to get all excited that a HULK aggressed him and he's going to start firing, and probably forget all about his scanner or grid for at least a few seconds. In which time the Drake lands RIGHT on top of him, now you already have him disrupted, so first thing he tries to do is warp, by the time it processes that the hulk has him disrupted the drake will already be locking on, now all you gotta do is pray that the drake's lock finishes before the frig can AB it out of scram and web range. Drake gets him scrammed + Webbed and the AML's will practically alpha strike a frig.
And if you are talking about a mining operation with multiple hulks, take a bunch of drones on them, when the flipper aggro's you just stick your drones on him from 3 or 4 hulks that's nearly 20 drones..... no frig is going to survive that and most cruisers will crumple into a ball of tin foil.
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Mazlow Shartain
Omega Wing Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mercie Orion I can't hardly imagine someone trying to can flip in a HAC, I mean really, if they have the skills invested to actually fly a HAC, they probably have better things to do with that ship then flip miners cans. Like ninja salvage and get the more juicy targets.
Well, logic says you would be right, but you should never underestimate the stupidity of some people. I have seen people can flip in everything from frigs to bs's to t3.
To the op,I would do what has already been said and just have a fleet off grid aligned and ready to warp in. A decently tanked miner should be able to tank most can flippers ships for the few seconds it will take to warp in and pop the them. You may not even need to agress most of the time as the flipper will be focused on you while the fleet is warping in. Just have a frig in the fleet with a sebo ready to point him and you should be good to go.
I have done this (killed can flippers) in the distant past and what I remember most is that it was mind numbingly boring. Flippers dont show up on a schedule and it can be a long time between targets. If I were you, I would just take your fleet and go look for some real pvp. It's much more fun.
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Razean
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mercie Orion I mean really, if they have the skills invested to actually fly a HAC, they probably have better things to do with that ship then flip miners cans.
There are plenty of Eve players who think there is nothing at all better than griefing carebears, and they'll commit any and all resources at their disposal to doing so.
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Zekuloth
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Posted - 2010.10.07 02:40:00 -
[22]
Your best bet is a smartbombing battleship, dont even need a pint that way, simply fly in from safespot and let al lthe high rack of smartbombs off, should kill most ships bc and lower even t2.
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Davy Brown
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Posted - 2010.10.07 12:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zekuloth Your best bet is a smartbombing battleship, dont even need a pint that way, simply fly in from safespot and let al lthe high rack of smartbombs off, should kill most ships bc and lower even t2.
Including the miner - excellent !!!!
Darwin in Evolution
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xenodia
Gallente DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
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Posted - 2010.10.07 17:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Leentje lee Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 17:13:11 Edited by: Leentje lee on 24/09/2010 17:12:03 Firstly, I should've read up on basic agro rules yes. But thanks for explaining those though;-).
But say you're being can flipped by some HAC, and you get a point on him with a hulk... when he sees your support warp in, he might just decide that he will die anyway, and just try to focus fire that hulk... and I can really see my hulk getting destroyed in that scenario.
But I guess a ship with a cloak isn't needed yeah, in that case... what ship duo would be the best? A pilgrim or curse and some zealot fitted for pure DPS or something?
Edit: Me wants disney songs
A hulk can actually fit a pretty decent tank if it doesnt care about sacrificing mining efficiency. Probably enough to hold off an ishtar long enough to warp in your gank squad to bbq him. This signature space for rent |
Stalking Mantis
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.10.08 05:48:00 -
[25]
Am I the only one that thinks Black Ops and Can Flippers should not mix? Why use a black ops when 6 or 7 frigates can pwn any can flipper? [/url] |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.10.08 14:35:00 -
[26]
Battle Badger or Battle Itty. Both look perfectly plausible and will wear out about 90% of can flippers. Particularly if someone RRs it with an Osprey. Big deal if you lose it, the LOLz you'll have will be priceless.
Barring that, you're a miner right? There's this one ship, that is the ultimate in Cov Ops, now you see em, now you don't situations. Ninjas love them and we use them to great effect. I hear there also pretty good for mining purposes; Orca.
Why bother to go all cloaky (and delayed lock time allowing the Rifter to fly away) and go to all these extravagant traps, when you can simply mine (rather effectively... for mining) with the Orca helping out. When the flipper turns all flashy red, you simply move your barge/exhumer over to the Orca, Board Ship and get it on. The following fit very easily into an Orca:
Cheap but Deadly to frigs Arbi, Ruppy, Rax, Vexor
Can punch considerably above their weight class, but somewhat pricey, will obliterate can flipping frigs Curse, Vaga, Omen NI, Fleet Stabber (poor man's Vaga)
Overkill and very pricey All 3 of the T3s, Cynabal
Pick one, train the hell out of it and have fun shooting can flippers.
Ninja Extravaganza, Strategies for Ninja Salvagers
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.10.09 04:34:00 -
[27]
The only ship to do this with a _cloak_ is the stealth bomber. Everything else has enough targeting delay out of cloak that your target will most likely be able to disengage and leave before you get around to zapping him, unless your mining bait ship is only barely mining and is actually equipped with a lot of pvp gear (web, scram, boosters sufficient to keep target in range, etc).
That said, there are other ways to do this than with cloak. Several have been pointed out to you already, the "wait and warp in" method being the most obvious. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
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