Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
JonnyRandom
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Yet it seems that the CSM is composed entirely out of representatives of big alliances in null-sec. So the CSM which is the voice all of Eve's population represents only 20% of the game's population...
I know there have been talks with CSM of how to bring more people into nullsec? But why are people that already live in nullsec trying to find ways to bring hi-sec into null-sec? Seems kind of backwards to me. I'd rather people like myself, that live in hi-sec, had more influence in finding ways to make null-sec more attractive to us.
That's just 2 thoughts I wanted to bring up... not sure if this has been discussed or not before. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have two counterpoints: 1) The current CSM is not entirely composed of representatives of null-sec alliances. Several members, Inssler notably, are not active in null-sec, and some of those who are, are not representatives of alliances even if they have an outlook shared by many of the members of null-sec alliances. During the elections that became obvious. I think the only two sec-status areas that had one clear, common candidate were WH space and FW in low-sec. I may be wrong about those two, but I did not see any other area have only one candidate or one type of candidate. 2) If you want to change it, organise a change in CSM8. I'd like to see more play-styles represented in the CSM, or voting reform, but if null-sec, low-sec and WH space all organise their collective 30% player-base or whatever to vote, while only 10% of hi-sec votes, then that's not something that should hurt the organised voters. Then it's the unorganised voters who should organise.
As for whom should decide what null-sec should be like: I would like to think that those who know how a particular area or play-style functions should be asked first what should be changed. There are plenty of things that I'd like changed about sov-0.0, and I can substantiate those opinions compared to my opinions about BP invention, which I know absolutely nothing about. If I had tried invention and could form an educated opinion on the subject it'd be a different matter.
I don't say this to be patronising, but it's just about not screwing someone over because whoever is doing the changes don't know anything about what they're doing, what effects the changes would have, and what the people using the feature wants. That of course goes for everything in the game. |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1373
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 23:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
because the 20% is the only % that matters heh |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 00:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Note most nullsec players have alts and alt corps in hi sec especially since it is extremely difficult to live in null sec without Nita access Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
444
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 00:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Incredibly ignorant or troll post, I can't decide which. I'm leaning to towards trolling, no one can be that stupid surely? |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
256
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 01:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Most null sec alliances have to deal with all parts of the game. There are very few issues that are solely found in high sec - crimewatch and to a degree war decs are about it. It's good to have dedicated people for FW and wormholes, but beyond that, most null sec alliances take part in everything else.
|
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
776
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 06:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
The CSM is elected by the people who vote. If the 70% of people gave a damn about who gets on the CSM, they could easily elect their candidates. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4378
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 06:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Yet it seems that the CSM is composed entirely out of representatives of big alliances in null-sec. So the CSM which is the voice all of Eve's population represents only 20% of the game's population... I know there have been talks with CSM of how to bring more people into nullsec? But why are people that already live in nullsec trying to find ways to bring hi-sec into null-sec? Seems kind of backwards to me. I'd rather people like myself, that live in hi-sec, had more influence in finding ways to make null-sec more attractive to us. That's just 2 thoughts I wanted to bring up... not sure if this has been discussed or not before.
The real question you should ask yourself is: why do the 70% that live in hi-sec not produce 70% of the candidates that people want to vote for? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 07:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Perhaps because that 20% takes part in the community by voting. Not to mention, that 20% has a lot of alts that live in high-sec, so your statistic begins to look a bit fuzzy.
And, perhaps most importantly, more gentlemen of quality live in null-sec. I wouldn't vote for random high-sec white knights unless they amuse me greatly.
|
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
601
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 08:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
That was actually discussed a whole lot for the CSM 7 election. Main thing is that the majority doesn't always win. And its hard being in the minority and not winning as well.
Seemed like you are worried about being force into null. That is another long running issue, and who knows when it will be solved or so. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
|
JonnyRandom
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 13:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
So, from your responses it seems the problem stems from the fact that even though Hi-sec may have the majority of players, only very few of them ever vote. Why do you think this might be? What steps can be done (both by CCP and the players) to increase voter turnout?
Certainly you can't expect a new player that's been playing for a month or less to even understand what the CSM is doing. Do we need to worry about that? Do we care about what new players think? |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:So, from your responses it seems the problem stems from the fact that even though Hi-sec may have the majority of players, only very few of them ever vote. Why do you think this might be? What steps can be done (both by CCP and the players) to increase voter turnout?
Certainly you can't expect a new player that's been playing for a month or less to even understand what the CSM is doing. Do we need to worry about that? Do we care about what new players think?
Players less than a month old can't vote, can they? maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaateeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
Cyprus Black
Perkone Caldari State
286
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm pretty sure nullsec population is a tad lower than 20%. Didn't CCP say at fanciest that it's around 15% ? Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
JonnyRandom
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dervinus wrote:
Players less than a month old can't vote, can they?
I'm not sure. What do you consider a cut-off point for new players? How long does an average player play before something finally *clicks* and they just start "getting" Eve and are thus now hooked forever and are no longer a newbie? 2 months? 6 months?
Regardless of that, I'm still interested to know if you guys think that newer player opinions should matter in the CSM. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 15:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
As far as the CSM goes, I think it's more important to have people representing parts of the game that need attention, or which are working but enjoyed by a small minority (WH dwellers, e.g.). Sov nullsec is badly broken, and it has been for years, so I don't mind that sov nullsec is heavily represented on the CSM. Highsec is actually well represented now, between Kelduum, Issler and Alekseyev--though Kelduum and Issler both ran on platforms which are of interest to people everywhere in the game. If you acknowledge how much of nullsec war is fought against various alliances' high-sec logistics, Aleks' platform could be said to be of interest to nullsec as well.
rodyas wrote:Seemed like you are worried about being force into null. That is another long running issue, and who knows when it will be solved or so.
I'd hope that the lesson of Incarna has seeped in: If you try to force people to doX, the odds are that it will end poorly, because you wouldn't feel the need to force people if you thought that X had enough intrinsic merit to attract people on its own. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1055
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
why is only 40% of americans voted for the president.
Why does only 4% of a state show up to vote for congress members
Why did you make this bad topic? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
JonnyRandom
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you had read the thread, you'd see that I am looking for two things: 1. Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? 2. How can this issue be addressed? |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 00:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:If you had read the thread, you'd see that I am looking for two things: 1. Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? 2. How can this issue be addressed?
1. No. 2. If you disagree, vote. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
445
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 02:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:If you had read the thread, you'd see that I am looking for two things: 1. Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? 2. How can this issue be addressed?
1. No
Why, because the issue as stated is manufactured from the misuse/misunderstanding of the statistical data and what it really means. The real issue, is game balance that encourages players to either remain in Highsec or have alts there to make risk free ISK.
2. Nerf Highsec income or nerf CONCORD/crimwatch
Now stop trolling us and go away. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
454
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 02:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:If you had read the thread, you'd see that I am looking for two things: 1. Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? 2. How can this issue be addressed?
#1 would be an issue if there was any kind of voting restrictions or problems that were preventing people from voting or running as a candidate. The only restriction to voting is that each account gets one vote, and that voting is only open for a set period, but this period is what, 14 days or something? Well past the point where anyone could say they totally would have voted but didn't have time. Running is similarly unrestricted, with the only requirement being that your account is older than 30 days and that you have a valid passport (as top 7 travel to Iceland). The barrier to become a votable candidate was also unbelievably low - 100 likes on the OP of your candidacy thread if my memory serves me.
Because #1 isn't an issue because of the outlined reasons, #2 is no longer a valid question. |
|
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
409
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 03:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Its easy just make everyone vote before they can log in. As EvE players are notoriously lazy about voting and would probably just click who ever is on the top of the ballet, we would need to have a good pvp tournament in the battle royale style to decide positions on the ballet.
Oh and only joking, my tinfoil hat is in the wash atm Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 03:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Its easy just make everyone vote before they can log in. As EvE players are notoriously lazy about voting and would probably just click who ever is on the top of the ballet, we would need to have a good pvp tournament in the battle royale style to decide positions on the ballet. Oh and only joking, my tinfoil hat is in the wash atm
That is the problem with forcing the issue, though: I don't think that "I'll vote for whoever, just let me into the damn game" serves the idea of democracy any more than non-participation.
Ideally, anyone too apathetic to inform themselves on the candidates is also too apathetic to vote. If the CSM want to be taken seriously--and, if the latest minutes are any indication, they do, and more importantly, the players should want them to--then the fewer empty/LOL/random votes there are, the better. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4382
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Its easy just make everyone vote before they can log in. As EvE players are notoriously lazy about voting and would probably just click who ever is on the top of the ballet, we would need to have a good pvp tournament in the battle royale style to decide positions on the ballet. Oh and only joking, my tinfoil hat is in the wash atm
How dare you discriminate against my CSM candidate alt, Aardvark A. Andrews in this way! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
607
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Its easy just make everyone vote before they can log in. As EvE players are notoriously lazy about voting and would probably just click who ever is on the top of the ballet, we would need to have a good pvp tournament in the battle royale style to decide positions on the ballet. Oh and only joking, my tinfoil hat is in the wash atm How dare you discriminate against my CSM candidate alt, Aardvark A. Andrews in this way!
Mintrolio, never forget.
He never would have forced you to go into null sec. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I'm pretty sure nullsec population is a tad lower than 20%. Didn't CCP say at fanfest that it's around 15% ?
*edit* stupid iPhone auto misspeller. keep in mind that you are talking about characters, not players.
I consider myself a 0.0 player and currently 5 of my 11 characters are in 0.0 (which is unusually high for me, usually I have 3 characters in 0.0 but I needed to move some additional cyno alts recently to keep logistics manageable). |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
163
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 08:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
A few thoughts.
"Special interest groups" - not that special, only those that have expressed an interest in being represented. We all were given the right to vote here, some exercised it - others did not.
Your metrics are somewhat accurate but... 70% of characters in highsec - 30% elsewhere. For each player with a focus "elsewhere" you probably have 1 highsec alt -- that puts it at 60% of the players interest not in highsec, 40% in highsec.
Where you miss is on the assumptions that 20% have full representation while the rest go without - that is inaccurate and checking who's on the CSM will show this to be the case.
As such, I'd assess this to be a "learning time" for you. Learn about alts and where the players who control them would focus their interests. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
416
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 10:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
In all seriousness we probably have the best balanced CSM we have ever seen with candidates from right across the spectrum being represented.
Frankly we have never had a group of people who were this balanced since the CSM became more than just a PR tool for CCP. If the Minutes just produced are any example of the quality of work and thought they are putting in we will probably have a very good year.
Personally I would like to see this continue in the years to come but unfortunately certain groups will probably prevent this from happening and we will just end up with a one sided CSM again.
So I look forward to hearing more from this CSM and hope there attempts to work more closely with CCP in producing a better game bear fruit.
Once again Thank you for all the hard work, the minutes were brilliant.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1063
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 00:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
the CSM repersents 100% of people who play eve, and give a **** about the games future. pure and simple.
People who don't care, don't vote. thus the csm is representing 100% of the community,. not 20%. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
JonnyRandom
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 02:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Then here's another though I want to bring up: What if some players really are voting by not voting? What if the lack of votes is a sign that many players either don't care about the CSM, or don't put much faith in it, thinking it to be too ineffective or a PR farce that was that set up by CCP as damage control after that incident.
What if, by not voting, some players are saying (directly or indirectly) that they put their full trust in the developers of their favourite game? |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
595
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 04:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Yet it seems that the CSM is composed entirely out of representatives of big alliances in null-sec. So the CSM which is the voice all of Eve's population represents only 20% of the game's population... I know there have been talks with CSM of how to bring more people into nullsec? But why are people that already live in nullsec trying to find ways to bring hi-sec into null-sec? Seems kind of backwards to me. I'd rather people like myself, that live in hi-sec, had more influence in finding ways to make null-sec more attractive to us. That's just 2 thoughts I wanted to bring up... not sure if this has been discussed or not before.
Hans Jagerblitzen is not a nullseccer, nor his alliance. Actually the furthest thing from that that still involves PvP.
Aleksyev Karrde is not a nullsecer, nor is his alliance, although they do jobs in nullsec. But that's what professional mercenaries do.
Two Step is a wormholer, a "holie," as they're sometimes called. (Which, aside from their -1.00 security rating, is about as different from known-space zerosec as it's possible to get.)
Kelduum Revan is the CEO of Eve University -- funny, I don't see them having any sov' anywhere according to DOTLan.
Issler Dainze and her alliance are definitely not nullsecers.
0/10.
Next!
E:
Weak troll is weak, this is so six months ago! Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |