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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1497
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Posted - 2012.08.13 20:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
i almost forgot legion of xXdeathXx (understandable) and hans' faction war alliance, other big nullsec players |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.08.16 15:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Hold up one second, I refuse the premise that because you're a member of a big sov holding alliance in nulsec, that you do not play/understand the highsec and lowsec game. In fact, I think that is wholely, utterly, and entirely wrong. Most members of large sov holding alliances maintain alts who mine, mission run, and plex. If they don't now, they have in the past for sure. Some of them started out as a youngn' running missions, mining and ratting for ISK. This is not some undiscovered country for them, they've had experience many of them in all aspects of the game.
Your premise is flawed, and therefore your argument invalid. Its called Logic.
Oh and if you don't like it, run for CSM 8 |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
318
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Posted - 2012.08.16 22:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:because the 20% is the only % that matters heh
lol this is funny. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
529
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Posted - 2012.08.17 22:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Blastil wrote:Hold up one second, I refuse the premise that because you're a member of a big sov holding alliance in nulsec, that you do not play/understand the highsec and lowsec game. In fact, I think that is wholely, utterly, and entirely wrong. Most members of large sov holding alliances maintain alts who mine, mission run, and plex. If they don't now, they have in the past for sure. Some of them started out as a youngn' running missions, mining and ratting for ISK. This is not some undiscovered country for them, they've had experience many of them in all aspects of the game.
Your premise is flawed, and therefore your argument invalid. Its called Logic.
Oh and if you don't like it, run for CSM 8 How about the premise that those of us on the forums really have no idea at all what the huge, non-posting non-voting majority of this game actually want. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards Black Core Alliance
97
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Posted - 2012.08.19 06:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Well, my home is in null-sec.
I have two no-skill characters on my account in high sec. So, I'm 33% null-sec, 67%-high-sec.
The stats really mean nothing.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if over half of high-sec characters are alts of null-sec mains. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
591
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Posted - 2012.08.19 09:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
As this already has been discussed at length in the past, I wil just summarize a couple points:
- CCP's demography stats talk about people who was online at a certain time. No matter wether they are "mains" or "alts", more than 70% of the characters are logged into hisec, and the number of characters logged into nullsec has been shrinking to under 15%. Even if everyone in hisec was an alt to nullseccers, hisec still would be 70% relevant to gameplay (we may assume that people don't log in their characters just for the sake of it).
- What is the incentive to vote for the CSM to the unaligned player? CSM only matters to the individual player if the issues they deal with matter to the players, but then, do you really think that 85% of the game ignores the CSM election because the CSM is relevant to them?
If the CSM doesn't does what interests players, players won't interest on the CSM. And we only know for sure that 85% of the players don't care to vote the CSM at all, so we end up with a representative body that represents only 15% of the player base... which is a good reason to not vote for it.
"We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
532
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Posted - 2012.08.19 10:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:JonnyRandom wrote:We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Well, my home is in null-sec. I have two no-skill characters on my account in high sec. So, I'm 33% null-sec, 67%-high-sec. The stats really mean nothing. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if over half of high-sec characters are alts of null-sec mains. Unless you were actually on your no-skill characters at the time of the 'snap shot', it would not matter. It was a percentage generated from where people actually where at a specific time.
So if you don't want Null to look barren, don't log onto your no-skill characters or they might take another snapshot and count you as a hi-sec character Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
532
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Posted - 2012.08.19 10:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: And we only know for sure that 85% of the players don't care to vote the CSM at all, so we end up with a representative body that represents only 15% of the player base... which is a good reason to not vote for it.
Don't care or don't know what the CSM is or think its only relevant to Null sec characters.
Hell I just had someone in GD say that the CSM is NULL sec players.
So education is needed for the masses. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
667
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Posted - 2012.08.19 10:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
^ Could backfire, and a troll candidate could win, and I don't just mean Darius III. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
532
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Posted - 2012.08.19 10:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
rodyas wrote:^ Could backfire, and a troll candidate could win, and I don't just mean Darius III. We know the current system is flawed and if they do it in such a way for instance the first page just having a blurb about the CSM and 2 big buttons for Vote or Abstain and from there the normal voting page if you click Vote, it would at least let everyone know about the CSM before they choose to ignore it.
And then we will have real stats on how many people don't care. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
667
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Posted - 2012.08.19 10:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
As well as stats to how many, are pissed off by being forced to vote, or stats on how many trolls there are in EVE. Or perhaps stats on how many are uneducated on eve online. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
470
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:16:00 -
[72] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:And then we will have real stats on how many people don't care.
Anyone who votes only because it's staring them in the face on a login screen doesn't care in the first place, no matter what button they blind click. Forcing people to vote is an awful idea since it pretty much skips the whole "hey, let's maybe try to find out WHY these people wouldn't vote otherwise" thing which is apparently so important. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
532
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:16:00 -
[73] - Quote
rodyas wrote:As well as stats to how many, are pissed off by being forced to vote, or stats on how many trolls there are in EVE. Or perhaps stats on how many are uneducated on eve online. Being forced to do two extra clicks to click on Abstain is so nasty..
I would rather have a representative CSM and an informed EvE population than a CSM easily controlled by a small percentage of the population for there own interests.
As to stats on the uneducated I believe CCP already has those and troll stats, well aren't the forums powered by trolls? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
591
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: And we only know for sure that 85% of the players don't care to vote the CSM at all, so we end up with a representative body that represents only 15% of the player base... which is a good reason to not vote for it.
Don't care or don't know what the CSM is or think its only relevant to Null sec characters. Hell I just had someone in GD say that the CSM is NULL sec players. So education is needed for the masses. This game is as much theirs as it is the forum posters or interest groups game. The idea came up in the town meeting that during CSM elections people would have to actively Vote or abstain before logging in. I think this is a good idea if it includes a blurb about the function of the CSM, especially as it gets more important every year.
I already suggested that in the past; log in screen of electible voters would show a list of the candidates (randomized each log in to neutralyze the "click the one on top" bias) plus an option to be reminded later -but no "abstain" option until the last day of election.
Shoving the CSM down player's throats would force them to at least wonder what is the CSM.
Also after the election, CSM shuld be allowed to send a mass mailing to everyone who voted them, to thank them for their cooperation.This would reward those who voted upon interesting themselves on the list. "We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
532
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: And we only know for sure that 85% of the players don't care to vote the CSM at all, so we end up with a representative body that represents only 15% of the player base... which is a good reason to not vote for it.
Don't care or don't know what the CSM is or think its only relevant to Null sec characters. Hell I just had someone in GD say that the CSM is NULL sec players. So education is needed for the masses. This game is as much theirs as it is the forum posters or interest groups game. The idea came up in the town meeting that during CSM elections people would have to actively Vote or abstain before logging in. I think this is a good idea if it includes a blurb about the function of the CSM, especially as it gets more important every year. I already suggested that in the past; log in screen of electible voters would show a list of the candidates (randomized each log in to neutralyze the "click the one on top" bias) plus an option to be reminded later -but no "abstain" option until the last day of election. Shoving the CSM down player's throats would force them to at least wonder what is the CSM. Also after the election, CSM shuld be allowed to send a mass mailing to everyone who voted them, to thank them for their cooperation.This would reward those who voted upon interesting themselves on the list. Frankly I think just have the Abstain button from day 1 because either way around if there is a blurb on the CSM before it at least they have had the ability to read about it before choosing to ignore it.
I agree as to the random order and it isn't that hard to do either but I feel the candidates should be on a separate page so as to reduce random clicking .
As to the mail CCP does not track the voters and to be honest nor should they. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2748
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:38:00 -
[76] - Quote
JonnyRandom wrote:We know that the game's population is split something like 70% hisec, 10% low sec, 20% null-sec. Something like that, the exact figures are not important. Yet it seems that the CSM is composed entirely out of representatives of big alliances in null-sec. So the CSM which is the voice all of Eve's population represents only 20% of the game's population... I know there have been talks with CSM of how to bring more people into nullsec? But why are people that already live in nullsec trying to find ways to bring hi-sec into null-sec? Seems kind of backwards to me. I'd rather people like myself, that live in hi-sec, had more influence in finding ways to make null-sec more attractive to us. That's just 2 thoughts I wanted to bring up... not sure if this has been discussed or not before.
Ummmmm what?? First off, its completely false that the CSM is all null dudes. 2nd, I see zero effort on the part of the current CSM to drag more highsec people out to nullsec - please cite your sources for this. What you hear is the CSM saying 0.0 should be fixed - which is important and necessary in the long run (and I'm not even one of the dudes that lives out there.)
If you want to have influence, send the CSM a mail. Tell us what you want to see - you'd be suprised at what you hear.....
We gotta move on beyond these stereotypes - posting misleading info like this continues to jade people about the CSM, and causes many to never contact us because they think its hopeless (which only worsens your chances of getting represented). You currently have reps on the CSM that live full-time in ALL areas of space - lowsec, highsec, WH, and null. Take advantage of them.
o7 Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4476
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Posted - 2012.08.19 19:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
But but but HANS!
what about the truthiness, Hans? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.08.19 19:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Blastil wrote:Hold up one second, I refuse the premise that because you're a member of a big sov holding alliance in nulsec, that you do not play/understand the highsec and lowsec game. In fact, I think that is wholely, utterly, and entirely wrong. Most members of large sov holding alliances maintain alts who mine, mission run, and plex. If they don't now, they have in the past for sure. Some of them started out as a youngn' running missions, mining and ratting for ISK. This is not some undiscovered country for them, they've had experience many of them in all aspects of the game.
Your premise is flawed, and therefore your argument invalid. Its called Logic.
Oh and if you don't like it, run for CSM 8 How about the premise that those of us on the forums really have no idea at all what the huge, non-posting non-voting majority of this game actually want.
way to dodge the point. If those people don't like something and don't speak up I have no sympathy. Eve is a game where if you actively take a part in the universe you can influence its direction. If you don't then sit back for the ride, because the CSM will only represent the opinions presented. You can't honestly expect them to do otherwise. besides the forums really ARE a good pulse of the EVE community, they haven't lead the CSM too drastically astray yet. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
533
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 22:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:And then we will have real stats on how many people don't care. Anyone who votes only because it's staring them in the face on a login screen doesn't care in the first place, no matter what button they blind click. Forcing people to vote is an awful idea since it pretty much skips the whole "hey, let's maybe try to find out WHY these people wouldn't vote otherwise" thing which is apparently so important. How strange a interest group is against more people voting.
They WHY is fairly easy its either laziness, apathy, misinformation or ignorance.
As I have said the population of EvE needs to be educated about the CSM and why they need to vote. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
533
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Posted - 2012.08.19 22:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
Blastil wrote: way to dodge the point. If those people don't like something and don't speak up I have no sympathy. Eve is a game where if you actively take a part in the universe you can influence its direction. If you don't then sit back for the ride, because the CSM will only represent the opinions presented. You can't honestly expect them to do otherwise. besides the forums really ARE a good pulse of the EVE community, they haven't lead the CSM too drastically astray yet.
The forums are a good pulse of us load mouths. Subscription numbers are a good pulse for the whole game.
That is why I would like to see ALL of EvE informed about the CSM, what it is doing, its role ect..
As well as making every account active in the voting process, even if it just means they click Abstain.
Then the CSM will truly represent the whole player base and not just those of us with mouths so big we could swallow a bus. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
471
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Posted - 2012.08.20 06:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:How strange a interest group is against more people voting.
They WHY is fairly easy its either laziness, apathy, misinformation or ignorance.
As I have said the population of EvE needs to be educated about the CSM and why they need to vote.
It depends what you want, I guess. More votes or more people participating. If you just want more votes, do the login screen thing - you'll have higher numbers and the same level of general apathy towards the CSM. If you actually truly do want more people participating though, it's going to take more thought than a popup on login that would be ignored if it didn't force a choice. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
533
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Posted - 2012.08.20 06:54:00 -
[82] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:How strange a interest group is against more people voting.
They WHY is fairly easy its either laziness, apathy, misinformation or ignorance.
As I have said the population of EvE needs to be educated about the CSM and why they need to vote. It depends what you want, I guess. More votes or more people participating. If you just want more votes, do the login screen thing - you'll have higher numbers and the same level of general apathy towards the CSM. If you actually truly do want more people participating though, it's going to take more thought than a popup on login that would be ignored if it didn't force a choice. Yes it will the voting screen with a blurb is only one thing I have recommended, I would also like to see
- CSM Billboards in EvE space
- A CSM Website
- A monthly to two monthly spam mail sent out like CCP spam, With a letter from the chairman with blurbs from a couple of other members as to the direction they would like to see, ideas ect.
- Year long pop up ads on login put into the rotation with a link to above website.
The basic idea is to educate the EvE population first then if they still want to abstain let them. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
669
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Posted - 2012.08.20 08:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
You could make it simple, a CSM message is always present at the beginning of local chat. Like how other channels have the long descriptions or funny stuff. Local just talks about the CSM or how many days to vote.
Problem solved. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
533
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Posted - 2012.08.20 10:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
rodyas wrote:You could make it simple, a CSM message is always present at the beginning of local chat. Like how other channels have the long descriptions or funny stuff. Local just talks about the CSM or how many days to vote.
Problem solved. That would be a massive spam every time you jumped between systems. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
670
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Posted - 2012.08.20 11:22:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fine then add subliminal messages to the EVE's music and EVE-radio that say read about the CSM and find out more information pertaining to them. Also worship satan more. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
534
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Also worship satan more. Nah that is for illiterate babies, I prefer to worship that ***** Goddess Isk. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
672
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Posted - 2012.08.21 03:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
But how are you gonna get more Isk? This is where satan worhsip really shines. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
535
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Well anyway back to the serious question of informing the EvE community about the CSM.
With any luck the CSM will not be too long before it releases the ideas its working on, not a complete work mind you but I would like to see the ideas they are looking at.
I would complain about the time with how long it took them to get the Summit minutes out but then I looked it up
It took them 2 months to release the 165 page minutes and the December Minutes took CSM6 1 month and 10 days to release 44 pages. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Blastil
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Frying, you can't force people to vote. While I have no problem with increased visability, last election ccp forced EVERY SINGLE PLAYER to see a vote csm splash on the load screen. You can't do much more than that. anything more is overly obtrusive. |
highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
214
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:58:00 -
[90] - Quote
OP, Easy Answer:
If there are so many more people in HS, then why dont they apply and get nominated/voted in for CSM?
Well, because most people in HighSec don't know about the CSM or don't care. They are here simply to play the game the way they want and not bother about whats going on around them. Not trying to be mean or rude, but its a fact. The majority of people in HS are just casual players that really could care less. You have a small minority of HighSec players that actually do care and are LOUD about it on the forums. But there are too few of them.
If you are putting the effort in to getting into a nullsec alliance and carving out a niche in nullsec, then you are probably not a 'casual' player. As such, you are more interested and affected by the CSM.
Simple.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
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