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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 06:38:00 -
[931]
Well I used your exact fit on page one and I an tell you right now you are not getting 150 Peak Recharge. You are getting 36 Recharge. The rest of the tank comes from the Dual Invul fields. Then again against EM/Therm you DPS tank drops considerably, but your peak rechrage remains the same. As far as the nano drake goes, I fly it exclusively and I can tell you right now you are not getting much better of a tank in it vs any other BC EHP, DPS or otherwise.
As for the Damps argument, what is your point. They work do they not. The drakes can no longer target out to 70K. As for having a fleet do this you simply instruct people to target drakes, If you have 50v50 chances are you are going to eliminate enough of their DPS to organize better. Considering your fleet is dependent on the range being closed to 30K to deal damage and be safe you have a few minutes to ensure that your damps are fairly evenly spread. Is it going to lock down all of them instantly no. Should it no. But you will certainly get enough of them to curb the DPS incoming enough your Logi's can keep the primary up.
Stop pretending drakes are invincible. Oh and fyi, Damps either work or they don't sensor strength has nothing to do with it. Fall Off missing % is the only variable, inside optimals those drakes get damped 100% of the time.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.15 06:43:00 -
[932]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 15/12/2010 06:44:43
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Your opinion is ******ed. It may have a slightly higher DPS tank, but its sig radius is fecking huge. Put a drake and a cane against a BS see who last longer. Nerfing the drakes passive recharge isn't going to stop people from complaining. Unless you think 36 hp/s a second at peak is impossible to overcome.
Average drake: Sig 349 - Sig with MWD 2096 - EHP 86,000 Average hurricane: Sig 299 - Sig with MWD 1792 - EHP 47,000
--------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.15 06:59:00 -
[933]
ok, I am not going to label you as a troll. Ill let the OP F* comment slide.
Drake - 300-500+ consistant DPS thats able to hit holes, is potentially EW imune (FOF), Capless weapons, 18km For Short range. T2 Ship Resistsances (Very easy to hit nearly 80% across the board) Buffer: 60-100K EHP Free Rep - 150-300 EHPS recharge at peak recharge, cannot be turned off. This is the equivelent of a free medium or Large armor rep that cant be shut off. Cap Neut Resistant (or completely immune if you build it right).
The main issue here, is the Effective HP + Passive recharge. You can get a myrmidon or Amar Battle cruiser to have the same Effective HP, but no where near the active tank. DPS may be higher on the other ships, but cant go anywhere near the drakes endurance level. You should have to spend Cap to achive active armor repair rates, and you shouldnt be able to field a massive buffer and the equivelent of a medium or large repper at the rate of effectively zero cap usage. Thats where everyone goes kind of bonkers about it. That buffer isn't just 80k EFP, its 80K + 150 HP for every second it takes you do do damage against it. Most of my drake fights take at least 2-3 minutes of wailing on it which is another 18000-27000 EFHP added to that boat. It gets even worse if the fits set up specifically for being a little endurance block of shields.
Not even battleships come close to this level of passive "Free" EHP or resistances. Sure your sig radius is bigger, but all that means is that you can actually hit max damage, not take more damage than you are supposed to.
Show me a fit using another other BC thats got 400 DPS, 100000 EHP, nearly 80% resistances, is Ewar Immune, extremely Neut Resistant and doesnt use cap boosters.
I'll even let you do it wouthout putting a point on it.
^.^
But as I mentioned,. there are counters to it, you just have to go small to get under the explosioin redius/velocity of the missiles and settle in for an endurance fight against an endurance boat.
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 07:13:00 -
[934]
Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 15/12/2010 07:15:27 an what do you consider and average cane build might I ask. The one I have is just shy of 50KEHP with a 1400 Sig radius using MWD.
edit YOU ARE NOT GETTING 150-300 Passive Recharge without rechargers SPRS or Purger rigs. You may have a 150DPS tank but that is because of your invulns, turn them off and watch your tank drop.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.15 07:29:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 15/12/2010 07:30:02
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 15/12/2010 07:18:19 Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 15/12/2010 07:15:27 an what do you consider and average cane build might I ask. The one I have is just shy of 50KEHP with a 1400 Sig radius using MWD.
edit
YOU ARE NOT GETTING 150-300 Passive Recharge without rechargers SPRS or Purger rigs. You may have a 150DPS tank but that is because of your invulns, turn them off and watch your tank drop.
Infact I don't think it is possible to get 300 HP/s recharge. Period.
[Hurricane, EVEMon Hurricane: Shield Buffer Gank-A-Cane] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Torrent Assault Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Torrent Assault Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x1 Valkyrie II x1
I don't fly them, however downloaded this one, which was rated high, from battleclinic. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.12.15 07:50:00 -
[936]
Pinky HP/s is a completely worthless value in Eve. Its EHP/s that you want, which is represented by the DPS tanked number in EFT. That's what everyone is talking about.
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 07:58:00 -
[937]
Edited by: Pinky Starstrider on 15/12/2010 08:05:59 [Hurricane, New Setup 1] 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II
Stasis Webifier II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M E50 Prototype Energy Vampire [empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Warrior II x5
54K EHP w/ low grade slave. +3% PG implant.
Quote: Pinky HP/s is a completely worthless value in Eve. Its EHP/s that you want, which is represented by the DPS tanked number in EFT. That's what everyone is talking about.
But you are not getting that HP. All that means is Each shot OMNI damage wise is reduced by that amount. Thats fine if you only have 1 ship shooting you, but when you have more than 1 it is redundant. Against Amarr or Minnie for example your effective tank even with 2 invulns is just over 100. When you are talking about well over 1K DPS your 100 DPS tank means ****. Especially if you are put into a position where you can not shoot back unless you use F.O.F which lose DPS, are nano fit which is less DPS and/or Tank.
The drake HML drake is only strong if you let it dictate range (which is why the nano drake rocks). If you make it fight or flee on your terms it loses much of its strength.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.15 08:31:00 -
[938]
You realize your now only around 40mps faster then the drake and still can't hit it for any damage even with your longest range ammo? and you still have only 60% of its EHP? --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.15 09:05:00 -
[939]
Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 15/12/2010 09:09:30 [Drake, Gate Bait] Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Shield Flux Coil II Shield Flux Coil II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Hellfire Rage Assault Missile Small Nosferatu II
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
490+ DPS with implants, 319 Effective HPS with a level V shield leadership skill (no command ship, skill only). 87k Effective HP. +8 Cap per second remaining with the Nos running (which is 5 minutes of "Go" time under a Single medium Neut, 275 effective recharge with just 1 Invuln running and the disruptor off and she is cap stable at that point. Neut resistant as hell.
*eddit* Those should be terror Rage assults, not hellfire's...
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StonedAGAIN
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Posted - 2010.12.15 15:03:00 -
[940]
Drakes totally need nerfed or there counterparts brought up to the same level, but in doing this you would need to take a look again at all other ship classes, Drake can b as good as a battleship if not better is in some ways.. why is this??? cant do that with a myrmidon, hurricane or a harbinger...
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.15 16:37:00 -
[941]
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider ...Myrm with no prop mod...
Please include a prop mode when doing comparisions both for and against Drake.
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Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.15 17:31:00 -
[942]
Pinky was responding to my comments and challenge to build a similar boat to the one I posted just a few remarks above this one.
Even without the point or prop mod, he still hasn't outdone the standard Gate Bait I've fought on many an occasion.
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 17:37:00 -
[943]
Originally by: StonedAGAIN Drakes totally need nerfed or there counterparts brought up to the same level, but in doing this you would need to take a look again at all other ship classes, Drake can b as good as a battleship if not better is in some ways.. why is this??? cant do that with a myrmidon, hurricane or a harbinger...
How is a drake better than battleships? or as good when battleships tear it apart?
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TheGoodTrader
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Posted - 2010.12.15 17:49:00 -
[944]
Drake needs a buff. I want to be able to fit a DCU without sacrificing damage or shield recharge.
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 18:11:00 -
[945]
I agree it needs another hard point for 8 launchers, a bigger drone bay, and an extra low slot. It should also have the 5% damage mod to scourge changed to 5% universal.
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Naxias
Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:32:00 -
[946]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Drakes on their own are reasonably balanced. When you get 50+ of them all buffer tanking and alpha striking people at upto ~85km as the current FOTM strategy is out there, this underpins their usefulness (max buffer for sig/speed tank and max range with same damage) so this is a scenario specific issue to large fleet warfare. There are counter strategies to this, but drakes+scimitars is an easier to coordinate tactic. The drakes tank or specifically its passive tank does concern us where both can be equally affected in a similar way. Food for thought anyway, we rarely intervene with emergent strategies and tactics as a counter usually matures after some time but will keep an eye on this thread to see what the rest of you think.
Any tactic that is scalable to a 50+ person fleet will always create game play issues. So to my mind the concern is more of scalable tactics than a specific ship. Maybe there is some subtle change that will not magnify the power of numbers but it's hard to think of one. Who knows, make defender missiles viable in pvp? That would be a sight to see! Yeah, surely it's all about server load so it's a bad idea but still. How about if local has more than 20 people a black hole opens up? Long live the solo small gang hunters!
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2011.02.10 22:46:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN fit
facepalm.com
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