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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.10.06 14:13:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue I'm sure this decision wasn't made lightly, but if you could give(or show) some examples, it would make the limitation much more easy to accept.
I have a theory:
None of the clothes would fit, as they would have to make several versions of each garment to accommodate the flexibility they have given us on height.
Another point...wouldn't you think everyone would have set their height to maximum anyway? It's not like we're role-playing trolls is it?
AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
Jaizak Aripaik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.06 14:21:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 06/10/2010 13:48:50 I'm also curious how badly things could possibly look with some hight variation. From all we know we will only be doing some posing and walking even in the full release, so what could possibly be broken so badly with a little variation in hight? I can see it causing little streching, that doesn't pass close scrutiny, but nothing really gamebreaking. I'm sure this decision wasn't made lightly, but if you could give(or show) some examples, it would make the limitation much more easy to accept.
3D Animation is all about moving points in space. If you make a person taller, you change the spacial relationships of almost all of their key points (hands, feet, head, joints, etc.) Joints can "freak out" as they bend too far. Parts of the mesh that weren't intended to intersect can suddenly do so. Cloth and hair simulation need to be re-run. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Advancements in procedural animation and other cool technologies can help adjust and account for this, but not perfectly, and they often provide their own constraints. Not to mention that implementing them can represent a considerable investment of resources. So as CCP plans, the question is: Which is more important; the art and animation or the ability to adjust height? I think you'll agree that they made the sensible choice.
-- Jaizak Aripaik __ |
Gistatis Tribunus
The Unknown Bar and Pub
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Posted - 2010.10.06 14:29:00 -
[183]
That's great! Now I might actually be able to get my character to really smile, not like this faux straight face that's made to look like I'm smiling. --------- "The." -Oceano da Cruz |
Barron Hammerstrike
Minmatar Intergang
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Posted - 2010.10.06 14:30:00 -
[184]
MINMATAR FOR LIFE BAYBEE!!
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.10.06 15:23:00 -
[185]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Edited by: CCP t0rfifrans on 06/10/2010 00:23:03
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore Does this mean body proportions such as weight and height will be adjustable?
Weight and muscularity will be adjustible ( with different contraints per race / bloodline ) but height is not adjustible. Different height avatars require an animation system or a set of animations multiple orders of magnitude more complex than having all the same height. There's a lot of things we can't support with different height avatars without considerable extra engineering and art investment which we prefer to spend elsewhere. That said, the men are taller than the women.
This is a big mistake for an expansion that was declared to be about socializing and RP.
Since there is no combat and associated complexities, no ship hangers or ship interiors, no windows into space; what was it exactly that CCP was doing for over 4 years working on this? ...
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Sedilis
Lead Farmers
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Posted - 2010.10.06 15:26:00 -
[186]
Looks great. Can't wait to try it on sisi
What's with all the hate re the height thing people? You got issues with that IRL and so you want to make your self big and strong in game?
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Nyu Shin
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Posted - 2010.10.06 15:27:00 -
[187]
For ppl who cannot wait:
http://www.dolidoli.com/dress-up-girl-games/dolls/
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.10.06 15:28:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 06/10/2010 15:32:59 As there was first talk about those 3d avatars CCP mentioned diets and stuff to form the bodies appearance - obese or skinny - stuff like that. If the cloth/hair simulations can't account for different heights, then they can't account for fat and thin avatars either.. I mean
Anyways.. I'm on the bandwagon asking for examples why different heights break the thing. Not that I'm a big fan of too much choices for us (morons) either, cause the outcome prob really will be talls and dwarfs..
Anyone in for a RNG that alters your personal height (throw once and never again, never changeable by player again) within limits? I think I would like that.. let there be some god throwing some dices and mix us up.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.06 15:39:00 -
[189]
Regarding the height issue, I don't think he said it was completely out of the question, just not coming with this release. I'm sure if they came out with adjustable height in the future that they can offer a free one-time height adjustment.
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Lirinas
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:02:00 -
[190]
Most games that allow an avatar's height to be adjusted do so very sloppily. Unrealistic stretching or compressing of limbs and textures, with clipping issues that players have come to ignore... or they just shrink or enlarge the entire character in an unrealistic fashion.
On top of that all, NONE of the games I've played will adjust a character's move speed due to their height. They use pretty much the exact same movement animations and speed, so you get these ridiculous 4' avatars that are walking (or running) along like they're jacked-up on caffeine, keeping precise pace with the giants that are barely moving... all the while they're gliding long the ground.
The couple animation snippets I've seen show an avatar that actually looks like she's walking along the floor and up & down stairs without looking like she's skating on ice or flying on rails. To get this effect with adjustable heights is certainly possible, and we may well see this in the future, but for now, I'll be more than happy if the super-high quality of animations I've seen so far become the standard for Incarna.
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Lirinas
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:05:00 -
[191]
Although just after I posted that bit, I wonder how extreme of morphs we'll be able to adjust on the body of our avatars? An extremely overweight avatar has just as much (even more problems) than tall/short adjustments, especially in regards to worn garments. Or will we see a more "organic" system arise, where virtual clothes are not the, "one size fits all" affair we're used to, and we may have to actually buy clothes that will fit our avatars? I know this is a bit of long-term thinking for when Incarna hits, but I am intrigued by the possibility.
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Xenofarion
Gallente Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:07:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Rocius I would personally rather wait on the restructuring of the portrait until you guys have had time to give us AT LEAST what we have now. As it is, the new system will be prettier, but will actually be LESS than what we have already.
Don't worry, they showed how soonÖ they delivered the 'flags'-function to contacts as they lolstomped Contact-Folders.
o wait.. -- those who can, do those who can't, complain
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:26:00 -
[193]
Oh, for some reason I thought you or some other computer wizards outside CCP would have thought of a revolutionary new way to make circular graphics without using polygons by now. I guess it's just one of those things computers can't do unless, like you said, you use almost infinite polygons?
I love your effort to translate your icelandic acccent into written communications, by the way.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans limtited
I can actually hear you say it.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:30:00 -
[194]
I dont think anyone has mentioned it yet, but what about the backgrounds? As attached as I am to my current face, the most easily distinguishable feature (to me) about the current portrait system were the backgrounds (banners and the like). I can tell its Chribba not because he's a bald Amarr, but that there's a background that looks like orange slices behind his head. This also goes for most of my corp/alliance mates and other famous people as well. Will the art department be creating a whole new set of backgrounds, or will they be including the current set of backgrounds, albeit with higher resolution?
[Stealth Edit] Will there also be a random face creator included as well? For the countless faceless alts, it'd be nice to roll the dice a few times to randomly get something that looks good instead of wasting time with the face sculptor. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:41:00 -
[195]
Thanks for the extra explanations on the issue.
Originally by: AlleyKat
I have a theory:
None of the clothes would fit, as they would have to make several versions of each garment to accommodate the flexibility they have given us on height.
Another point...wouldn't you think everyone would have set their height to maximum anyway? It's not like we're role-playing trolls is it?
AK
Why would people set their hight to maximum? If you are only interested in function, you always go for the smallest size possible. In combat large size makes you easier to target and makes you stand out in a crowd or environment. From a personal preference standpoint I like playing small framed characters. They fit much better to the characters I play, since I'm interested in playing chracters who focus on mental attributes instead of physical.
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Elementatia
Caldari Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.06 17:51:00 -
[196]
Whooo ! I just tested new design on sisi - and i like it !
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Elhym
Solar Nexus. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2010.10.06 17:57:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Elhym on 06/10/2010 17:59:36
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Why would people set their hight to maximum? If you are only interested in function, you always go for the smallest size possible. In combat large size makes you easier to target and makes you stand out in a crowd or environment. From a personal preference standpoint I like playing small framed characters. They fit much better to the characters I play, since I'm interested in playing chracters who focus on mental attributes instead of physical.
"Dropping your height to shortest is the most effective way to go! Everyone who thinks they are smart should do that!"
I don't want to be taller than most of the playerbase just because I left my height near average and everybody else thinks like you. Likewise I don't want to be shorter than everyone else because the rest of the players spring their height up to maximum. People might miss having height options because it's something they are used to, but it's not a bad decision leaving them out, even regardless of animation limitation. This isn't a pointed jab at anyone in particular, but players (on average) really suck at making realistic avatars. Height is just another option for people to mindlessly screw around with.
t0rfi did say that each bloodline would have its own defined set of animations, I can imagine that's coming with a specific height for each bloodline's males and females. I can respect CCP wanting their work to look as elegant as possible.
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Dacil Arandur
Cognitive Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:30:00 -
[198]
The height thing doesn't bother me at all, if different races have different heights. Though I wonder if that is the case, or if they would have to make racial versions of all clothing.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new character creator. I've not liked my own character's portrait since about a week after making it, but have held off on paying for something different since I knew this was coming.
My original question (and others) hasn't been addressed at all though. Will we be able to retake our portrait picture occasionally if we don't like how it turns out?
Maybe at the cost of a PLEX, since you are buying a new pilot's license and getting a new photo for it - lol. Actually makes sense in-character anyway.
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Junk Monk3y
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:45:00 -
[199]
this thing is fun :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvJas-BOGn4
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TheLostPenguin
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:48:00 -
[200]
Ugh this gets worse the more we learn about it, first no tattoos and now no height options. I get not wanting a huge variance in height and yes that tends to cause very noticeable breakage when the time hasnt been taken to provide diferent base animation models to cater to diferent heights (say 3 core models for short/ave/tall chars that are then modified by the user to exact height wanted), as for any adjustment wrecking your animations, if you cant do moderate variances in height then its most likely not going to cope with diferences in weight/muscular build either, and will end up looking unrealistic anyway once you start getting users with varying builds mingling.
This really comes down to something that gets yelled at you repeatedly CCP, players do not want half finished new stuff continually shoveled out the door with a half promise that it'll be iterated at some unconfirmed distant point in the future, whilst the height issue is simply a (bad) design decision the fact that you admit tattoos don't work at all shows very clearly that THIS IS NOT READY FOR RELEASE and yet you're still shoving it out the door with a "meh so what" attitude. I dont even have any matari characters but it seems just plain wrong to say "ok everyone now HAS to redo their characters, even tho we havent provided anything for the minmatar people to make themselves with", that you consider this acceptable shows a fair degree of contempt for those players.
Also could we have a few answers to some of the recurring questions in this thread, ie how we will be able to change our chars in the future? Surely with an all-new rendering system we'll be able to modify at very least our superficial appearance and ideally bone structure as well (perfectly possible with plastic surgery) via appropriate ingame locations, since you'll surely change the current system that requires the portrait to be manually replaced by someone at CCP (and hence the fee).
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Mordeth Ventox
Gallente The Demon Gate True Reign
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:55:00 -
[201]
I gotta know...will exotic dancers eventually be rendered in the new engine? Cuz I kinda own a lot and I would LOVE to provide new eden with dancing girls lol. :D "From Hell's heart I stab at thee, for hates sake I spit my last breath at thee." |
Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:18:00 -
[202]
Quick comments:
upper body work seems to go fine, but when I start playing with the character's legs, even at low muscle/weight settings they seem to have a built in cellulite effect that makes the back of the leg appear all mushy like they came from a 35 stone woman.
Some of the pants effects have an odd effect where the waist gets chopped, as if you tried putting a larger waisted torso ontop of a smaller waist bearing set of legs.
Finding all the areas you can adjust on the face is nice,but some of the classic sneers, etc are hard to reproduce.
Will there be any guides on how to use the dials/settings in the final product?
No more all white eyes :(
Originally by: TWD We suck and Goonswarm are PvP gods.
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Jade Tranquility
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:22:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Dacil Arandur The height thing doesn't bother me at all, if different races have different heights. Though I wonder if that is the case, or if they would have to make racial versions of all clothing.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new character creator. I've not liked my own character's portrait since about a week after making it, but have held off on paying for something different since I knew this was coming.
My original question (and others) hasn't been addressed at all though. Will we be able to retake our portrait picture occasionally if we don't like how it turns out?
Maybe at the cost of a PLEX, since you are buying a new pilot's license and getting a new photo for it - lol. Actually makes sense in-character anyway.
You think it's a good idea to make people who play this game to pay even more money to do stuff like this? Not everyone spends hundreds of dollars on a game like you. Redoing the avatar shouldn't cost money to begin with. I've been wanting to redo one of my chars since the week after I made her, but I can't justify spending that money on that particular thing though. Get your head out of your ass moneybags, or at least give me a plex.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Lucky Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:40:00 -
[204]
I love the new look of the UI. I hope this new look gets implemented to the rest of Eve as well
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Dacil Arandur
Cognitive Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:41:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Jade Tranquility
Originally by: Dacil Arandur The height thing doesn't bother me at all, if different races have different heights. Though I wonder if that is the case, or if they would have to make racial versions of all clothing.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new character creator. I've not liked my own character's portrait since about a week after making it, but have held off on paying for something different since I knew this was coming.
My original question (and others) hasn't been addressed at all though. Will we be able to retake our portrait picture occasionally if we don't like how it turns out?
Maybe at the cost of a PLEX, since you are buying a new pilot's license and getting a new photo for it - lol. Actually makes sense in-character anyway.
You think it's a good idea to make people who play this game to pay even more money to do stuff like this? Not everyone spends hundreds of dollars on a game like you. Redoing the avatar shouldn't cost money to begin with. I've been wanting to redo one of my chars since the week after I made her, but I can't justify spending that money on that particular thing though. Get your head out of your ass moneybags, or at least give me a plex.
Ideally, they should fix the system so that it's not something that has to be done manually by a CCP employee - which takes time and resources. It would be great for us to be able to update the portrait without having to pay anything, though I'm not sure its a good idea for us to be able to change our portrait every 2 minutes. Things like the forums and website probably rely on some sort of cache for them, and having a limit of once per month, or even an amount of ISK like a PLEX to limit the amount of portrait switching seems fine to me.
PLEX != money. You can get plex without spending a dime if you spend the time in game to make the ISK. Maybe PLEX for portrait change wasn't the best suggestion, but it actually does make perfect sense in character as a PLEX is literally a pilot's license extension and you can get a new photo for your pilot's license when you buy a new one.
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Elaine McMenace
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Posted - 2010.10.06 20:15:00 -
[206]
Originally by: i hatechosingnames please tell us the bad-hair-day gallente hair style made it through...
This. Currently it's not in the creator :(
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Pentinor
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.06 20:17:00 -
[207]
Ummm...I fail to see how not having a height slider is that big of a deal atm. Its not like anyone else will be able to see how tall you are or compare their full body avatar to yours. When/if Incarna is released im pretty sure it will be included (because lets face it...it's a pretty mandatory option in a character creator) but right now....not that big of an issue. Signature locked. Please file a petition to discuss the matter - CCP Fallout |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.10.06 20:30:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Pentinor Ummm...I fail to see how not having a height slider is that big of a deal atm. Its not like anyone else will be able to see how tall you are or compare their full body avatar to yours. When/if Incarna is released im pretty sure it will be included (because lets face it...it's a pretty mandatory option in a character creator) but right now....not that big of an issue.
What exactly is the point of releasing an unfinished (to put it lightly) feature that has jack **** to do with anything going on in game? ...
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2010.10.06 20:31:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Dacil Arandur
Originally by: Jade Tranquility
Originally by: Dacil Arandur The height thing doesn't bother me at all, if different races have different heights. Though I wonder if that is the case, or if they would have to make racial versions of all clothing.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new character creator. I've not liked my own character's portrait since about a week after making it, but have held off on paying for something different since I knew this was coming.
My original question (and others) hasn't been addressed at all though. Will we be able to retake our portrait picture occasionally if we don't like how it turns out?
Maybe at the cost of a PLEX, since you are buying a new pilot's license and getting a new photo for it - lol. Actually makes sense in-character anyway.
You think it's a good idea to make people who play this game to pay even more money to do stuff like this? Not everyone spends hundreds of dollars on a game like you. Redoing the avatar shouldn't cost money to begin with. I've been wanting to redo one of my chars since the week after I made her, but I can't justify spending that money on that particular thing though. Get your head out of your ass moneybags, or at least give me a plex.
Ideally, they should fix the system so that it's not something that has to be done manually by a CCP employee - which takes time and resources. It would be great for us to be able to update the portrait without having to pay anything, though I'm not sure its a good idea for us to be able to change our portrait every 2 minutes. Things like the forums and website probably rely on some sort of cache for them, and having a limit of once per month, or even an amount of ISK like a PLEX to limit the amount of portrait switching seems fine to me.
PLEX != money. You can get plex without spending a dime if you spend the time in game to make the ISK. Maybe PLEX for portrait change wasn't the best suggestion, but it actually does make perfect sense in character as a PLEX is literally a pilot's license extension and you can get a new photo for your pilot's license when you buy a new one.
If these are not some of the game mechanics available inside the stations it really begs the questions of what's the point. Preferably, player owned shops that allow making changes to your avatar and updating your portrait.
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Reddx Panther
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Posted - 2010.10.06 20:43:00 -
[210]
Nice display of technology, props for that. Guess it's very much work in progress, so feedback may be premature. The basic faces look good, but i was missing some significant influence over the physiognomy. Good luck getting that done... |
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