Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tom Gerard
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 02:23:00 -
[1]
http://www.youtube.com/user/HermanGamer
Basic Concept, If your in W&T you shouldn't need your hand held with any of this.
Tactical overview on Align vertially and horiziontally to the gate, The Billboard will ALWAYS be to your left. MWD out 500km.
You will save 6.1% off your align times, this will make your trip longer but getting off the gate sooner could be a good thing.
|
Jones Bones
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 02:40:00 -
[2]
So now you just need BMs for every station/gate/etc. in the game.
Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.
There, I just saved you 6.1% of your tears.
|
Amanda Eidolo
The Python Cartel.
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 02:45:00 -
[3]
I saved 6.1% on my tax this year by claiming on chewing gum the receipts of which I saved knowing the taxman would like to see proof of my minty fresh breath and the consequence it has on my business life. -------- ¦ |
I likegirls
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 03:28:00 -
[4]
I wasted 6.1% of my minute replying to this post.
|
captain foivos
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 04:10:00 -
[5]
I saved 15% or more on my car insurance by switching to Geico. -- I, for one, welcome the chance to open a bar I can decorate with the corpses of those I have slain. All hail Incarna. |
TheMahdi
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 09:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jones Bones So now you just need BMs for every station/gate/etc. in the game.
Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.
There, I just saved you 6.1% of your tears.
You should have gate/station BMs for every system you are PvPing in anyway. If you don't, your losing a lot more than 6.1%.
This is a great tip and will definetly become a part of my regular BM making for each system.
|
Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 09:11:00 -
[7]
Oh wow. ___________________
|
Mara Abraham
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 14:05:00 -
[8]
Good Day, Tom:
Thank you for taking the time to test this out, create a video proof of concept and share it.
I recently shared with the corp I'm in similar tests including involving a test gate camp made up of fast locking interceptors a T2 recon ship with fast locking and long rate point. While the 6.7% will not save battle ships or ships larger than a cruiser, all frigates were able to benefit enough to get through and cruisers got through more often than not.
Thank you.
|
Zyress
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 15:50:00 -
[9]
I haven't trained Strategic Cruiser but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
|
CloserTo God
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 16:39:00 -
[10]
I'm lovin' it.
|
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 19:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tom Gerard Tactical overview on Align vertially and horiziontally to the gate, The Billboard will ALWAYS be to your left. MWD out 500km.
Completely unnecessary. When a ship comes through a gate, it is always aligned in the same direction. To make your get-off BM, just accelerate to max velocity after jumping through. At 500km, starting 15km to one side or above/below the gate will not matter.
But I find it interesting that eliminating the turn saves time. That used to not be the case at some point in the past. Accelerating in any direction out of gate cloak used to take the same time, no matter how far you had to turn. But youi also warped sideways, especially if in a BS.
I guess when they changed how ships turn as they align, to eliminate sideways warping, the turn began to add to the alignment time.
|
wizard87
|
Posted - 2010.10.12 11:11:00 -
[12]
Edited by: wizard87 on 12/10/2010 11:12:16
You're aware that the visual alignment (the look of where you're aligned towards) of your ship after jumping into a system is a lie right?
Warping anywhere from this "zero alignment" position takes the same time, be that 500km from a gate, to a station or the forum warp up your own bumhole pictured in the video.
Thanks.
|
Moroccan Tourist
|
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:14:00 -
[13]
huh? warping has something to do with alignment? tell this to my mwd orca its facing the opposite side when warping
|
Sural Alpha
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 21:45:00 -
[14]
Align time is irrelevant, entering warp from zero speed takes the same time whether you are aligned or not, visual representation has nothing to do with is (which is why you see freighters and caps warp off even though they aren't actually aligned yet). Learn 2 play. |
Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Foundation
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 07:23:00 -
[15]
Your alignment DOES matter. Try a freighter, If its pointing the wrong direction, it first has to turn itself around, before it begins to accelerate for warp. You dont notice this much in a frigate or shuttle, but there is time wasted in the alignment, not just speed.
Also, what you see as your alignment in your client is a 'lie' but there ARE alignment calculations being made on the server-side. The cilent just estimates these to save on bandwidth.
|
Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 13:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sural Alpha Align time is irrelevant, entering warp from zero speed takes the same time whether you are aligned or not, visual representation has nothing to do with is (which is why you see freighters and caps warp off even though they aren't actually aligned yet). Learn 2 play.
Align time is not irrelevant. Perhaps what you are seeing is a sync glitch, but if you fly anything larger than a cruiser you'll notice you can't always accelerate through a tight turn, specifically aligning. Meaning that if your ship has to turn a great deal it won't reach that 75% speed that's needed to warp as quickly as it would if it was facing the approximately the right direction.
I will give you that it doesn't matter enough in frigs and most cruisers to care too much about it, but in larger ships, especially freighters, orcas, and so on it's useful to know. *-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
Othran
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 15:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity Your alignment DOES matter. Try a freighter, If its pointing the wrong direction, it first has to turn itself around, before it begins to accelerate for warp. You dont notice this much in a frigate or shuttle, but there is time wasted in the alignment, not just speed.
Also, what you see as your alignment in your client is a 'lie' but there ARE alignment calculations being made on the server-side. The cilent just estimates these to save on bandwidth.
Bollox. This hasn't been true for at least 4 expansions.
The cross-posted thread on the same subject got pretty much ripped to shreds on GD.
Its nonsense. End of.
|
Sadie Isktic
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 05:14:00 -
[18]
So who is correct (I didn't see a cross-post)? Additionally, to those who claim that aligning is unnecessary, does this apply across the board -- including small gangs and fleet warp?
If "Align To" is indeed unnecessary for BC/BS hulls, it seems that the time saved by skipping the command, if only one second, could be made useful in a hostile situation. |
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 17:29:00 -
[19]
If you are at zero speed, you have no defined alignment. Regardless of the direction your ship is pointing, you will speed up for warp in the same time.
Alignment is only relevant if you are moving at high velocity.
|
Sadie Isktic
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 09:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Omara Otawan If you are at zero speed, you have no defined alignment. Regardless of the direction your ship is pointing, you will speed up for warp in the same time.
Alignment is only relevant if you are moving at high velocity.
Makes sense to me, thank you.
That said, in a (my) small fleet the person who doesn't align to gate first lags behind on the jump, or so asserts the FC. Perhaps it is the ship (i.e. Trimark rigs) and the Align To command is just aesthetic? Or because we have then entered high velocity the above statement applies?
|
|
Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 17:16:00 -
[21]
There's so much wrong in this thread, I'm not even sure what's right anymore :( Can we get a definitive answer?
|
HiMyNameIsBoxxy
|
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Omara Otawan If you are at zero speed, you have no defined alignment. Regardless of the direction your ship is pointing, you will speed up for warp in the same time.
Alignment is only relevant if you are moving at high velocity.
In an old Devblog, they talked about how the objects (and their direction) were handled by the server, and it was mostly vectors, so you must be right, when a vector is =0, it don't have any direction, so aligning to any point would take the same time, but if you already have a speed & direction (assuming they are opposite from your warp-direction), you'll take more time to align.
PS: I can't assure all of this is true, I have to find the Devblog in question and reread it. PPS: English is not my native language, sorry if I'm not understandable.
|
Hanibella
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 10:27:00 -
[23]
Your English is better than most Boxxy and I appreciate the fact that you pointed out more information was needed or needed to be confirmed. The questions at hand seem rather important, though I'm not sure if they will be missed by the majority of the knowing readership under this forum heading. Thanks for contributing the knowledge you have thus far.
|
Caldari Acolyte
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 14:26:00 -
[24]
Another Stupid Post.....
|
Verkala Ven
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 18:46:00 -
[25]
Some of this has already been mentioned, but let's see if we consolidate. Won't guarantee perfection on this, but these are the systems as I understand them.
"Align to" matters, as does aligning. The confusion comes from the terms being abused in this thread.
In order to enter warp, you must be moving at 75% or more of your max speed, on a vector towards the destination. (i.e. at speed and pointing where you want to go). When you align to a destination, you accelerate to max speed in that direction. When you hit the warp button, all the requirements are met and you enter warp immediately.
Who aligns when will only matter if the FC doesn't give everyone time to finish aligning. Call align, wait 45 seconds, and everyone goes together. Call align and call warp 3 seconds later, some ships probably aren't truly aligned yet.
The visual representation of your ship is fictional. It's a client-only presentation done to look pretty. It's not a sync issue, and anyone who's ever slung a freighter into warp with a friendly web knows this.
If you aren't moving, you have no velocity vector. Accelerating in any direction is equal. When you web-sling a freighter into warp, it will often be pointing the wrong direction when it gets into warp, because the client hasn't caught up to its new vector. You can even see this in the OP's video - the shuttle is still turning when it begins to warp. You can test this with the freighter easily enough. If the facing matters, then it doesn't matter when you hit the freighter with the web - the turn will be the restriction that matters, and even though the web changes the speed issue it'll still have to finish the turn. In reality, this isn't what happens. As soon as the web hits the freighter, it takes off no matter what the facing is. (if you're going to test this and have never done it, it's important to realize that the freighter must have initiated warp before you web it, otherwise it doesn't work).
If you are moving in a direction which isn't towards your destination, you have to shift your velocity vector to point in the right direction - essentially cancel your current direction, and add the new. So it will take longer to align and warp.
"Passive alignment" has become all the rage in some circles lately, but it's a myth.
As to the OP's video, if he wants to dispute things I'd like it with a much larger ship. A fifth of a second difference, on a single test, is not a meaningful measurement, and it's certainly not proof of anything. Do it several times, with a ship that aligns slowly enough that 6.7% is a measurable couple of seconds, and we can revisit.
Sorry for the wall of text, but after dealing with a lot of people yelling for passive alignment lately, ignorance of this particular system has become a pet peeve.
|
Sadie Isktic
|
Posted - 2010.10.21 22:23:00 -
[26]
Thanks for the informative contribution Verkala and the information about "passive align" which will surely lead me to some FC debate.
And, I think I can now reconcile both the need to Align To a gate as a fleet, say to avoid a premature jump, and yet understand how Align is also a visual representation on the client side in other cases...I think.
|
Verkala Ven
|
Posted - 2010.10.22 16:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sadie Isktic And, I think I can now reconcile both the need to Align To a gate as a fleet, say to avoid a premature jump, and yet understand how Align is also a visual representation on the client side in other cases...I think.
Well, appreciate what "align" means in game terms - you are aligned if you are moving towards your warp destination at over 75% of your max speed. Which direction you see your ship facing has nothing to do with it.
The Jump-Align-Warp process in a fleet serves a few purposes. Mainly, it keeps the fleet together. If everyone in the fleet just warped from gate to gate, people would get spread out as more nimble ships would get into warp sooner. By calling for an alignment first, and waiting until everyone is aligned, the entire fleet enters warp at the same time and arrives at (roughly) the same time. This can avoid a lot of pain if you warp into nastiness, as otherwise your light ships (frigates, interceptors, interdictors) could potentially land a good 30 seconds before heavier ships.
It also gives you those really awesome screenshots where you've got a large group of ships in a synchronized warp, which is always a good thing :)
|
Gabriel Rosencrantz
Red Frog Freight
|
Posted - 2010.10.22 16:14:00 -
[28]
sounds like this has been pretty well wrapped up, but just to confirm:
After 1000s and 1000s of jumps in a freighter, alignment from zero is equal to time to accelerate to warp.
Red Frog Freight: Hisec Courier Service |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |