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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Vanessa Vansen
Cybermana
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 05:15:00 -
[151] - Quote
As said, most of the changes are ok but still some things are missing
- Ice Harvester II needs the same fitting requirements as T2 strip miners
Currently you can fit whatever mining barge exhumer you like for ore/mercoxit mining with a bit of a tank (and to upgrades in the low slots). If you change for ice harvesting (harvesters and upgrades) you have to remove the tank. Now that the same ship is going to be the king in ice and ore yield it should be possible to just replace the mining/harvesting gear without having to touch the remaining modules providing a decent tank.
- Calibration Cost for mining rigs should go down to 200
Currently, you would move to 0.0 with a hulk, a mackinaw and a skiff to be able to get maximum yield. Without the change mentioned above you'll need a hulk for ice mining and a hulk for mercoxit mining. With the change you would need a single hulk
This would provide the king of the hill ship for mining |
Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
239
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 05:36:00 -
[152] - Quote
Lirinas wrote:It's been years since I last did any serious mining, and even longer since I've mined Mercoxit, but this thought came to mind:
How well can the Covetor & Hulk withstand the damage from carelessly mining Mercoxit?
Quote: Deep Core Mining:
Skill at operating mining lasers requiring Deep Core Mining. 20% reduction per skill level in the chance of a damage cloud forming while mining Mercoxit.
Just get Deep Core Mining V. Simple. http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
357
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:01:00 -
[153] - Quote
Borgholio wrote:All this talk about lack of crystal space in the new barges. Has anybody...you know...considered using common T1 strip miners? Less yield but no worry about crystals.
Just a thought...
no because then the other ships have higher yield, ehp, and tank... why would you pick a hulk if it has less of everything? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
357
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:05:00 -
[154] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:I know this is pointless, but let me make one last attempt. [stuff]
you missed a key point for miner B.
none of that is fun, at all. the change isn't just a logistical ball ache, it's boring and uninteresting. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1684
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:17:00 -
[155] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Miner B lives in SOV null sec space, in an alliance with a number of other corps. GǪ in an alliance where most of the people don't speak the only language that Miner B speaks. Miner B doesn't coordinate anything he does with the corp or alliance, and figures that guessing how much ore is in rocks is a great way to determine how much ore is in rocks.
Miner B really needs to learn how to use a frigate, a microwarpdrive, and a survey scanner. I would also suggest that Miner B should find a different corp where there are people who play at the same time as Miner B who speak the same language as Miner B.
As far as contrived examples go, 7/10. You left out the ever-present AFK cloaker and the awoxer.
Though Miner B would greatly benefit from a frigate with the survey scanner bonus of an Orca. Perhaps we should be pestering CCP to release an ORE covert ops frigate? No weapons, but a nice bonus to survey scanner distance along with the usual covert ops perks. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
611
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:19:00 -
[156] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Borgholio wrote:All this talk about lack of crystal space in the new barges. Has anybody...you know...considered using common T1 strip miners? Less yield but no worry about crystals.
Just a thought... no because then the other ships have higher yield, ehp, and tank... why would you pick a hulk if it has less of everything?
Your missing the point in the dev blog though. CCP Ytterbium stated, that OTHERS are suppose to carry the ore, and bring you mining crystals. (on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals)- CCP Ytterbium
So it is not designed for the hulk pilot to grab more when he docks or for him to go dock for more crystals. Other players, who play EVE to carry ore places, and to stock things and bring supplies to others. Those players will bring the crystal to the hulk pilot, who is highest mining away. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:25:00 -
[157] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Dave stark wrote:Borgholio wrote:All this talk about lack of crystal space in the new barges. Has anybody...you know...considered using common T1 strip miners? Less yield but no worry about crystals.
Just a thought... no because then the other ships have higher yield, ehp, and tank... why would you pick a hulk if it has less of everything? Your missing the point in the dev blog though. CCP Ytterbium stated, that OTHERS are suppose to carry the ore, and bring you mining crystals. (on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals)- CCP Ytterbium So it is not designed for the hulk pilot to grab more when he docks or for him to go dock for more crystals. Other players, who play EVE to carry ore places, and to stock things and bring supplies to others. Those players will bring the crystal to the hulk pilot, who is highest mining away.
i didn't miss the point at all, the other poster asked about using t1 strips, to which i replied it just makes the hulk worst at everything.
i think you're trying to shoehorn a point in to a conversation that you're not a part of. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
611
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:32:00 -
[158] - Quote
Oh oops, I should have picked better quotes, sorry for throwing off my post. Mostly picked those quotes, since it seemed like the most heinous part of the conversation. But word wise, it is confusing why I used it. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
611
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:40:00 -
[159] - Quote
Borgholio wrote:All this talk about lack of crystal space in the new barges. Has anybody...you know...considered using common T1 strip miners? Less yield but no worry about crystals.
Just a thought...
(let me try again)
Sorry poster, but you are reading the dev blog wrong. CCP Ytterbium never stated, that hulk pilots would have to fit T1 strips to deal with less cargo room. (As well as most common posts, of just get more when you dock, or go pick some up) That is not what CCP Ytterbium said hulk pilots would do, to deal with a smaller cargo.
All CCP Ytterbium said that hulk pilots would have to do is : rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals.
There it is, the solution. The one and only correct solution. Hulks can stay in an asteroid field, for as long as they want to and never worry about crystals.
On the other hand, other players will have to bring the hulk pilots their crystals, when they are needed. I do wonder what players will step up to bat. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:41:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:... Miner B lives in SOV null sec space, in an alliance with a number of other corps. Most of his mining takes place in gravitational sites, and the miners in his alliance have worked hard to upgrade their main mining system to both reach and maintain the desired industry level. They have a large asteroid cluster spawned in the system at all times, and it contains 12 different ore types. To be able to mine in these belts (plus the regular belts that appear in his system), he has had to train 4 times longer than Miner A, since he needs to mine all 16 different ore types in the game.
When Miner B gets home from work and wants to go mining, other alliance members have already been in the belt ahead of him. There's no way of knowing what kinds of ores are still in the belt, how many units are remaining, or where those asteroids are located in relation to one another. One of the bigger mining corps in his alliance is made up of primarily Russian speakers, and communication is difficult. In any event, it's already late in Russia and most of them have gone to bed. Another group of miners comes from the German corp. They are still in the belt, but language difficulties make it hard to have a conversation about ore types. So Miner B makes some random guesses about which ore types he might find when he lands in the belt, hoping for Arkonor, Bistot, Crokite, Hemorphite, and Hedbergite. He loads in 3 of those crystals apiece, and warps to the corp bookmark for the current large grave site.
When he lands, he realizes that his guesses were awful. All of the Arkonor is gone. The Germans have 3 Hulks hitting the last remaining Bistot rock with 3 lasers apiece. There are still 2 Crokite asteroids left, but they are far away from each other. and neither one is currently in range. He can't even scan them to see how much is left in them. There is one Hemorphite rock just 15 km away, but his scanner shows that it has only 520 units left in it. All of the other Hemorphite is too far away to either mine or examine with his survey scanner. His only lucky guess was Hedbergite. There is one untouched Hedgbergite rock within range. It could keep him mining for an hour or more, but not if he nails it with all 3 lasers at the same time. But what choice does he have? The only other rocks within range are 2 nicely-sized Kernites (that he doesn't have crystals for) and a Spodumain that nobody wants to bother with.
So he slowly turns his Hulk around, spends the painfully long aligning time writing down a list of the closest asteroids, makes a few bookmarks to some asteroids that are too far away to hit with his scanner (hoping that there is still a decent amount left in them) and warps back to the station. There he reloads with a different set of crystals, and heads back out to one of his new bookmarks. When he gets there, though, he finds that the Crokite that he warped in on is largely exhausted, and that there really are no other rocks in range. ...
The way you describe it pilot B is solo miner so he should be using Mackinaw or Retriever instead of Hulk. |
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 07:45:00 -
[161] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:The way you describe it pilot B is solo miner so he should be using Mackinaw or Retriever instead of Hulk.
except, as is common in null, you have an open fleet to join to give you bonuses even if you're solo mining. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 08:14:00 -
[162] - Quote
No new ORE mining frig in this patch? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 08:16:00 -
[163] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:No new ORE mining frig in this patch?
no. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 08:48:00 -
[164] - Quote
Overall I like the idea of where the barges are going. Having options is good, having each be useful in it's own way is good. I do have a few concerns though with regards to the latest changes.
1. Sig radius increase is not factored into EHP's but there is a definite effect on the ability of a ship to mitigate damage just from sig size. Increasing overall EHP while increasing sig radius can result in a negative or neutral balance.
2. The idea of one ship being the weakest because it's a fleet based vessel instead of a solo ship is somewhat ludicrous. A fleet in high sec can not protect a low EHP ship from being alpha'ed or taken down by a few small, cheap ships. When an unarmed ship costs upwards of 250mil isk there should be sufficient defenses so that a 40mil ship can't simply one shot the more expensive ship. The exhumers are slow, fat, have limited slots compared to combat ships, and have no real offensive PVP capability. Given all of these weaknesses it seems only fair to ensure sufficient defenses to require some risk/loss to those that would prey on miners. I'm not saying exhumers should be super tanked, but I think they should easily be able to get 50k ehp at the low end and 120k or so on the high end. *Easily in this case is being able to fit both mining modules and tank modules without having to go all tank just to stand a chance of surviving in high sec.*
3. Requiring rigs to determine ore/ice/gas mining seems a bit expensive. I think rigs should be used for yield or range and modules determine what type of bonus the turrets get. I don't like the idea of having to get different barges to mine different targets but I guess it's similar to combat ships having to swap rigs to change from active or passive tanks. I think the main difference is the cost of barges vs. the cost of most combat ships. T1 ships swap rigs but typically T2 ships, the ones costing the same as exhumers, stick with specific rigs and rarely swap them around.
Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Joost Caldari
Joost Inventor Labs The Ancients.
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 09:21:00 -
[165] - Quote
Ruareve wrote: 3. Requiring rigs to determine ore/ice/gas mining seems a bit expensive. I think rigs should be used for yield or range and modules determine what type of bonus the turrets get. I don't like the idea of having to get different barges to mine different targets but I guess it's similar to combat ships having to swap rigs to change from active or passive tanks. I think the main difference is the cost of barges vs. the cost of most combat ships. T1 ships swap rigs but typically T2 ships, the ones costing the same as exhumers, stick with specific rigs and rarely swap them around.
I agree... Not being able to unfit rigs will mean that the majority of miners will end up with double (minority with a third for gas mining and a forth for mercoxit) mining ships. Now how does that encourage group activities? Not everybody might be able to afford multiple barges, which might mean individuals will specialise in specifc activities. Not sure how this will work out! The future will tell. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 09:31:00 -
[166] - Quote
Joost Caldari wrote:Ruareve wrote: 3. Requiring rigs to determine ore/ice/gas mining seems a bit expensive. I think rigs should be used for yield or range and modules determine what type of bonus the turrets get. I don't like the idea of having to get different barges to mine different targets but I guess it's similar to combat ships having to swap rigs to change from active or passive tanks. I think the main difference is the cost of barges vs. the cost of most combat ships. T1 ships swap rigs but typically T2 ships, the ones costing the same as exhumers, stick with specific rigs and rarely swap them around.
I agree... Not being able to unfit rigs will mean that the majority of miners will end up with double (minority with a third for gas mining and a forth for mercoxit) mining ships. Now how does that encourage group activities? Not everybody might be able to afford multiple barges, which might mean individuals will specialise in specifc activities. Not sure how this will work out! The future will tell.
the mercoxit rig is what, 14% yield or some thing... a mercoxit asteroid is often left until last along with spod anyway, so you'll probably have all the miners mining and with that many people on it then it'll pop fairly fast, i doubt the rigs will see much use anyway.
it's a bigger issue for ice though, i'll admit. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jagoff Haverford
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 09:34:00 -
[167] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:The way you describe it pilot B is solo miner so he should be using Mackinaw or Retriever instead of Hulk. That's clearly where CCP is going with this, I agree. But again, why should this limitation apply only to those who mine in 0.0 and wormhole space? Those in Empire are completely unaffected by this cargohold problem, and can continue to use the ship with the highest output. They can stay in their NPC corps and solo mine in a Hulk as much as they every did, with no need to think about things prior to undocking.
And Miner B isn't really solo. His Alliance has a fleet going at all times, with boosts coming from an off-grid Rorqual that, for reasons of safety in 0.0 space, is never going to visit the belt to drop off crystals for anybody.
In any event, how about one final idea before I simply shut up about this forever? I would gladly use a rig on my grav site Hulk that increased cargo capacity by 2,000 m3 at the expense of a much larger amount -- call it 3,000 as a starting figure -- of ore bay space. That would give players a choice, make the Hulk far more viable in 0.0 space, and probably sell more Hulks at the same time. The actual numbers probably need to be adjusted a bit here, but the overall concept could work.
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Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden Freelancer Coalition
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 10:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:[quote=Sofia Wolf]
And Miner B isn't really solo. His Alliance has a fleet going at all times, with boosts coming from an off-grid Rorqual that, for reasons of safety in 0.0 space, is never going to visit the belt to drop off crystals for anybody.
Regarding your Rorqual Comment, this will change too, since in the CSM minutes has been stated at page 133 Offgrid boosts will get removed, so i'm pretty sure will Rorqual Offgrid boost getting affected by this removal in the Future too, meants the Rorqal will have to be in the belt or somewhere on the Gridd in INDUCORE Mode to give maximum Boost.......Lets see how this will went if this change hits TQ as well.
Sincerly
Carola Kessler |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 10:26:00 -
[169] - Quote
Carola Kessler wrote:Jagoff Haverford wrote:[quote=Sofia Wolf]
And Miner B isn't really solo. His Alliance has a fleet going at all times, with boosts coming from an off-grid Rorqual that, for reasons of safety in 0.0 space, is never going to visit the belt to drop off crystals for anybody.
Regarding your Rorqual Comment, this will change too, since in the CSM minutes has been stated at page 133 Offgrid boosts will get removed, so i'm pretty sure will Rorqual Offgrid boost getting affected by this removal in the Future too, meants the Rorqal will have to be in the belt or somewhere on the Gridd in INDUCORE Mode to give maximum Boost.......Lets see how this will went if this change hits TQ as well. Sincerly Carola Kessler
there's no way people are going to put some thing as expensive and vulnerable as a rorq on grid for boosts. you're gonna have orcas that are perma aligned, which will be drifting away from the mining ships which means re-supplying crystals is going to be an absolute pain in the *******.
these changes get worse, and worse. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1787
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:01:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote: They might not make it any more exciting
I suggest this will be the focus of a future expansion. Making a most boring profession equally profitable for all ships, does not really mean it's the improvement that miners are waiting for since many years.
Ogogov wrote:All the barges are getting their tanks adjusted to favor shields rather than structure hit points
Meanwhile, Gallente combat ships still favor structure hit points. HURRRRRRR.[/quote]
Because Gallente ships have 2 low slots... oh wait. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Freibuis
Legion of Lost Souls The Lego Cartel
1
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Posted - 2012.08.04 11:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
Quote:The barges are primarily mining ships, which means that regardless of what else they do, they have to be good at mining. The difference between the lowest and highest mining output was way too much, so the first thing we did was to bring the mining outputs of the different barges closer together. Hulk is still the king of yield, but the others are not so far behind as to be redundant.
I like what I am hearing, but!!!!!!
So let me get this right, since there is almost no out put difference between a hulk and a retriever (since outputs now are closer then pre this patch) why would you spend 264M Isk when you can buy the almost the same ship for 13M isk
are we going to see a re balance in price? are we going to see inputs for the retriever more to compensate the fact that it will be better then it is now?
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Jagoff Haverford
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort Get Off My Lawn
23
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Posted - 2012.08.04 11:03:00 -
[172] - Quote
Carola Kessler wrote:... in the CSM minutes has been stated at page 133... How on earth did you stay awake through 133 pages of that stream of transcripted diarrhea to find this one nugget of useful information? I am deeply impressed.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:10:00 -
[173] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Tallest wrote: They might not make it any more exciting
I suggest this will be the focus of a future expansion. Making a most boring profession equally profitable for all ships, does not really mean it's the improvement that miners are waiting for since many years.
let's look at the whole sentence
Quote:They might not make it any more exciting, but at least miners will have to make some meaningful decisions before they undock.
crystals aren't a meaningful choice, at all. choice of ship is meaningful, however crystals are not.
even more so when it only causes an issue for 1 role rather than all of them. the worst part is it makes mining less interesting, it's really that simple. nobody wants to waste time faffing around with crystals that's why we just put all of them in our cargo bay and off we went and it was fine until ccp decided in their infinite stupidity to make it an issue. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jimmy Watson
Section 5
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 11:12:00 -
[174] - Quote
Well I don't like it......I don't like it at all!!
Page 9 on a mining dev blog and NO Chribba?
Isn't anyone else getting worried......WTFIC! (where the **** is chribba)
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
358
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:15:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jimmy Watson wrote:Well I don't like it......I don't like it at all!!
Page 9 on a mining dev blog and NO Chribba?
Isn't anyone else getting worried......WTFIC! (where the **** is chribba)
he mines in a dread, exhumers aren't on his radar :P Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Duvida
The Scope Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:17:00 -
[176] - Quote
Chribba! Oh Chrrrriiiiibbbbaaaa..... !
Oh, I had a question too, will the size of the packaged ships remain the same? (If I missed it in the notes, it was because I was looking for Chribba) |
suun Leeh
Black Core Federation Black Core Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:33:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ok so maybe im missing something. :
The hulk will now have a cargo hold m3 space of 350m3 and is suppose to hold 4 sets of mining crystals
This is where i am having a proble understanding how that is possible. A T1 veldspar mining crystal is 30 m3 1 set is 30m3x3=90m3x4 sets =360m3? 360 does not equal 350 and that is just the t1. Now if we do t2 A t2 veldspar mining crystal is 50m3 1 set 50m3x3=150m3 x 4 sets well thats is 600m3
Are the sizes of the mining crystals being changed? or am i just completely whacky? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
360
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:35:00 -
[178] - Quote
suun Leeh wrote:Ok so maybe im missing something. :
The hulk will now have a cargo hold m3 space of 350m3 and is suppose to hold 4 sets of mining crystals
This is where i am having a proble understanding how that is possible. A T1 veldspar mining crystal is 30 m3 1 set is 30m3x3=90m3x4 sets =360m3? 360 does not equal 350 and that is just the t1. Now if we do t2 A t2 veldspar mining crystal is 50m3 1 set 50m3x3=150m3 x 4 sets well thats is 600m3
Are the sizes of the mining crystals being changed? or am i just completely whacky?
they are counting a set of crystals already loaded in the strips. also crystals are 15m3 and 25m3 for t1 and t2 respectively. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Octoven
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:47:00 -
[179] - Quote
Overall good changes, barges definitely needed revamped but one major issue I have is on SISI currently, the hulk and mackinaw are dead even in terms of mining ice, the hulk doesnt win in that regard mainly because the mack has a better tank.
However, how many miners do you see out in the ice fields mining solo? Typically mining ice is for POS fuels and typically there is more than one individual involved in said structure's fueling such as a whole corporation. Most of the time I don't see macks out mining ice anymore, I see hulks and orcas and this is BEFORE the change even has happened. The mackinaw is great for solo mining in the ore fields but even then most of the people who do that as well will use a retriever simply because its cheaper.
Even if mackinaws start showing up a bit more in ore belts, by making the hulk superior in ore AND ice you pretty much kill the need for even needing the mackinaw in the ice fields. To be honest, I think the way SISI has it set up now is fine. Leave the hulk and mack equal in regards to ice or at the very least make ice bonuses to be slightly more than the cov but less than the hulk. Its no longer just an ice vessel I agree, but these new changes based on the last minute decision on CCP's part pretty much eliminate macks out of ice belts period. |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 11:49:00 -
[180] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Sofia Wolf wrote:The way you describe it pilot B is solo miner so he should be using Mackinaw or Retriever instead of Hulk. That's clearly where CCP is going with this, I agree. But again, why should this limitation apply only to those who mine in 0.0 and wormhole space? Those in Empire are completely unaffected by this cargohold problem, and can continue to use the ship with the highest output. They can stay in their NPC corps and solo mine in a Hulk as much as they every did, with no need to think about things prior to undocking.... here.
You have a point there but I personalty would still prefer Mackinaw to Hulk for high sec solo mining because I donGÇÖt risk someone stealing/fliping my ore canister. |
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