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Kyang Tia
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Posted - 2010.11.13 10:24:00 -
[91]
Absolutely supported. I like the Omen very much for its design and have tried using it several times in PvP. The only thing it can really do is kill frigates.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.13 10:25:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 13/11/2010 10:27:58
Originally by: Spugg Galdon 300 DPS isn't to be laughed at when you can completely out range blasters and dropping 50 DPS when switching to scorch (in only one second!) and hitting out to 20 km is an epic achievement.
Can you post your Arbitrator fit so I can compare please?
Standard Arby Fit
4 Small Nuets
1 TD 1 Warp Disruptor or Scram 1 Stasis Web 1 MWD or AB
1 1600mm Plate 2 EANM 1 DCU II
5-10 Hammerhead II's 5-10 Warrior II's 0-5 EC-300 or EC-600's
With the tracking you will have trouble hitting anything, Optimal makes Scorch useless, and a Vexor can get similar DPS with out blasters then that fit.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.11.13 11:22:00 -
[93]
Yeah the Arbi is a great ship but those TD's are useless vs a missile boat, small neuts have no range and when flying in a fleet EWAR boats are the primary targets.
My argument is that you can fit an Omen competitively in its class. Better skills allow for better fits. A low SP player shouldn't be able to easily fit their ships. Hell, high SP players struggle. I don't put top tier guns on any of my BC's!
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.13 11:26:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Spugg Galdon A low SP player shouldn't be able to easily fit their ships. Hell,
Unless they are any other race then Ammar
Originally by: Spugg Galdon
high SP players struggle. I don't put top tier guns on any of my BC's!
Not really, and this isn't about top teir guns in the least. It is about a little more fitting leway for a ship very few people fly.
As of yet you have not posted one good fit that isn't rediculously expensive, complete or had fitting mods to fit the smallest sized guns.
Ethier way compared to the rest the fitting on this ship is really poor.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.11.13 11:31:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/11/2010 11:31:25 Omen is fine
Not supported
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.13 12:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Spugg Galdon Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 13/11/2010 10:04:34 [Omen, Omen] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II 400mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 400mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Hobgoblin II x3
See what I did there? Its cheap, has no rigs, and good stats vs cost. Requires low skilling.
There is nothing wrong with the Omen. Try more intuitive fittings instead of "I must fit an 800mm plate and a MWD and super powerful weapons". T.I.E. brother. That's what makes it so great.
Selinate, What is it you're trying to achieve with a beam laser + MAR fit?
That would get killed by most of the games cruiser line up to be honest as it has a fairly terrible buffer and fairly terrible dps
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Cer'ana
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.11.14 03:13:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Cer''ana on 14/11/2010 03:12:41 Not letting this off the first page.
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Berendas
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.14 03:45:00 -
[98]
Omen is in desperate need of a buff, you can't fit anything resembling a tank or solid dps on it at the same time. It's really unfair to newbie Amarr players that if they want a solid t1 cruiser, they need to train drones/ewar early on for the Arbi. |
Kryptos Sanguar
SOLAR KNIGHTS of the NEW DAWN
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Posted - 2010.11.14 03:49:00 -
[99]
Supported, Omen is long overdue for some love. |
Matah Hari
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Posted - 2010.11.14 03:53:00 -
[100]
I agree, I skipped the omen during my early life because of this issue |
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Zaboth Garadath
Ore Extraction Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.14 13:53:00 -
[101]
I loved the omen when I was a noob- the only reason I changed to a maller was bacause I could not find what I wanted with the omen :(
_____________________________________________
'If you really want to make someone hate you, explain to them, logically and politely, why they are wrong' - J. Baylock |
Botrias Pirabus
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Posted - 2010.11.15 03:13:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Bagehi If you think the Omen has problems fitting T2, you should try flying almost any other cruiser.
[Caracal] Reactor Control Unit II x2
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage x5
Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
13,799 EHP and 275 DPS @ 27.2km
[Omen] 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Reactor Control Unit II x3 Adaptive Nano Plating II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Cap Recharger II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch x5
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
12,378 EHP, 221 dps @ 23+5km
Similar priced fits, both are equally tight fits. Caracal can't get all the damage on a cruiser though (120 for exp radius and 139 exp vel isn't going to do much to a cruiser). Javs do 193 dps @ 45km and standards do 215 dps @ 30km, so despite the numbers, the Omen would win. Honestly don't see the stated problem with the Omen (Bellicose is a silly tight fit for less dps and Vexor has destructible dps).
And how fast are they compared to each other? Can the Omen with it's armor tanking mods get inside of it's range, and stay there? Or can the Caracal kite it with impunity? I'm purely an Amarr pilot, so I don't know the answer to this question. I do know, however, that when I was first able to fly an Omen for PvE, fitting it usefully was so difficult that I got into a mining ship and mined for enough money to change to a Maller instead. And 3 RCUs with a very light omnitank for resists and one plate makes for a deceptive ehp. Just use anything but EM and you'll be doing very close to full damage against it.
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KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2010.11.15 06:10:00 -
[103]
Jesus, how many times does a single person have to disagree with a point in a single thread? We get it, man, you think the Omen is perfect and needs no changes what-so-ever. |
Nauplius
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.11.16 04:39:00 -
[104]
Supported.
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Gallians
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Posted - 2010.11.16 05:05:00 -
[105]
Very supported, Omen is easily the worst cruiser as it is now. Fix the Amarr bonuses while at it.
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Starlight Twilight
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Posted - 2010.11.21 23:04:00 -
[106]
Omen is the reason why I switched to using an arbitrator (omen sucks btw), and now my drones are more of a primary weapon against frigates, secondary against cruisers if my guns can't hit them. and the omen isn't good enough or worth enough to consider rigging normally (rigging it would cost more than the ship, and for that price a drone boat would be more effective)
Star Light Star bright, The first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, Have the wish I wish tonight. I wish for chocolate! |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:40:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Bagehi If you think the Omen has problems fitting T2, you should try flying almost any other cruiser. Bad Omen Bad Caracal
Is that 3 RCU's...
That is the most ******ed fit I have ever seen, you seem to be EFT'ing with max skill caracters. Which tells me you didn't even read the OP or ignored it.
The Vexor can push that much DPS with it's drones and fit over 20kEHP. Stabber Kitting fits would eat both of those and the Caracal needs a boost as well. But now it can fit an Assault Missile Anti Frig fit...
Try reseting those skill levels to below 2.5mil skill points and engineering and Electronics 4 then make a fancy EFT fit. Use below Meta 2 and make it cost under 10mil w/o rigs. You can do it fine with the others. Then make a MWD, Buffer, Armor setup try not to use 400mm destroyer plates.
Three RCU's and less then 15EHP on a Cruiser... Thats a level of Pathetic that is hard to top!
You seem to have skipped the first sentence in my post, and thus the entire purpose of the post. I put it in bold this time for you. The point I'm making is that no T1 cruiser is designed to easily be fit with T2 weapons.
400mm plates are the equivalent to medium shield extenders (HP-wise). 800mm plates are the equivalent to large shield extenders (HP-wise). 1600mm plates are one of the many reasons why armor tanks are better buffer tanks than shield.
Quote: Use below Meta 2 and make it cost under 10mil w/o rigs. You can do it fine with the others.
Oh really? A specious argument. The only two ships I'm aware of that can accomplish this are the thorax and the vexor. Thorax is a complete EFT warrior ship as the medium blasters + 800mm plate mean it never gets into range of anything. Vexor is alright, but drone damage isn't a good choice for most PVP situations when flying cruiser-sized ships.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.22 16:26:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 22/11/2010 16:36:29
Originally by: Bagehi You seem to have skipped the first sentence in my post, and thus the entire purpose of the post. I put it in bold this time for you. The point I'm making is that no T1 cruiser is designed to easily be fit with T2 weapons.
LSE+425mm Kiting Stabber fits fine with Tech 2 Weapons. So does the 425mm, 800mm plate Rupture and the 180mm, 1600mm plate Rupture. The Vexor and thorax can be fit all Tech 2 as well. So can the LSE Blaster Moa and the LSE Assualt Missile Caracal.
Originally by: Bagehi
400mm plates are the equivalent to medium shield extenders (HP-wise). 800mm plates are the equivalent to large shield extenders (HP-wise). 1600mm plates are one of the many reasons why armor tanks are better buffer tanks than shield.
And what do all the 800mm 1600mm and LSE modules have in common. They fit on the:
Stabber Rupture Thorax Vexor Moa Arbitrator Assualt Caracal Bellicose Blackbird.
Without Power Grid and CPU.
Originally by: Bagehi
Oh really? A specious argument. The only two ships I'm aware of that can accomplish this are the thorax and the vexor. Thorax is a complete EFT warrior ship as the medium blasters + 800mm plate mean it never gets into range of anything. Vexor is alright, but drone damage isn't a good choice for most PVP situations when flying cruiser-sized ships.
The others fit at low skill without need to use as much High Meta, the fitting demands on the Omen are to much. It is something to say when a ship that has everything going for it: Slot Layout, Weapons, Drone Bay, Dmg Bonus.
And yet it is the least used Direct Combat Cruiser in the game do to terrible fitting issues.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Mishikaii
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Posted - 2010.11.22 17:49:00 -
[109]
Posting to confirm the Omen sucks.
Supported.
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Eve Orwell
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.23 10:33:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Eve Orwell on 23/11/2010 10:32:49 supported, but i think the boosts are too high, id say 10-15 cpu and maybe 30-50 powergrid
its hard to fit, but it still fits stuff. Not as easy as say, a thorax. If you've been trying to fit heavy pulses on it, theres your problem, have you tried fitting a thorax with a full rack of neutrons? its not gonna happen, cant expect the same thing on an omen.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.23 18:32:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm LSE+425mm Kiting Stabber fits fine with Tech 2 Weapons. So does the 425mm, 800mm plate Rupture and the 180mm, 1600mm plate Rupture. The Vexor and thorax can be fit all Tech 2 as well. So can the LSE Blaster Moa and the LSE Assualt Missile Caracal.
The others fit at low skill without need to use as much High Meta, the fitting demands on the Omen are to much. It is something to say when a ship that has everything going for it: Slot Layout, Weapons, Drone Bay, Dmg Bonus.
And yet it is the least used Direct Combat Cruiser in the game do to terrible fitting issues.
You saw what has to be done to a caracal to fit LSE+MWD+T2 HAMs. You and I both agree it is a bad fit. That with max fitting skills.
A Moa, with max fitting skills, has to use 2 RCU to fit T2 Neutrons+LSE+MWD and nothing else. That is a bad fit. Using high meta, and max fitting skills, you still have to fit an RCU.
Rupture can do 425mm+LSE+MWD, but you are talking about a 4 weapon setup (no missiles?) as compared to the 5 weapon setups of non-Minmatar ships. Stabber and Belicose are more of the same.
Vexor can fit heavy tank and MWD because no one worries about dps from the guns, so they stick some piddly guns on and rely on drones for dps. Otherwise, you can't even fit a full rack of neutrons and a MWD without running into a grid wall.
Thorax, with max skills, runs up with the grid wall just putting a rack of neutrons on it. The only reason no one complains is because they don't put the high end guns on a thorax and accept that they will have to fit grid module(s).
All the cruisers are tight fits if you stick an MWD and a full rack of T2 weapons on them.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.23 18:59:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Alara IonStorm LSE+425mm Kiting Stabber fits fine with Tech 2 Weapons. So does the 425mm, 800mm plate Rupture and the 180mm, 1600mm plate Rupture. The Vexor and thorax can be fit all Tech 2 as well. So can the LSE Blaster Moa and the LSE Assualt Missile Caracal.
The others fit at low skill without need to use as much High Meta, the fitting demands on the Omen are to much. It is something to say when a ship that has everything going for it: Slot Layout, Weapons, Drone Bay, Dmg Bonus.
And yet it is the least used Direct Combat Cruiser in the game do to terrible fitting issues.
You saw what has to be done to a caracal to fit LSE+MWD+T2 HAMs. You and I both agree it is a bad fit. That with max fitting skills.
A Moa, with max fitting skills, has to use 2 RCU to fit T2 Neutrons+LSE+MWD and nothing else. That is a bad fit. Using high meta, and max fitting skills, you still have to fit an RCU.
Rupture can do 425mm+LSE+MWD, but you are talking about a 4 weapon setup (no missiles?) as compared to the 5 weapon setups of non-Minmatar ships. Stabber and Belicose are more of the same.
Vexor can fit heavy tank and MWD because no one worries about dps from the guns, so they stick some piddly guns on and rely on drones for dps. Otherwise, you can't even fit a full rack of neutrons and a MWD without running into a grid wall.
Thorax, with max skills, runs up with the grid wall just putting a rack of neutrons on it. The only reason no one complains is because they don't put the high end guns on a thorax and accept that they will have to fit grid module(s).
All the cruisers are tight fits if you stick an MWD and a full rack of T2 weapons on them.
You can fit a full rack of tech 2 medium weapons and mwd on a rupture, moa and thorax without fitting mods. Same with the stabber, caracal has problems but alara mentioned the assault fit only for his example of fitting t2 weapons on it.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.23 19:12:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Korg Leaf You can fit a full rack of tech 2 medium weapons and mwd on a rupture, moa and thorax without fitting mods. Same with the stabber, caracal has problems but alara mentioned the assault fit only for his example of fitting t2 weapons on it.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. Hybrid cruisers go with the smallest medium blasters already. Minmatar can stick the big ACs on. The Omen can easily be fit with T2 focused medium pulse though. If the argument is that Minmatar cruisers can fit heavier weapons than the other races' cruisers, the flaw in that is that Minmatar are simply fitting 1-2 less guns to accomplish this.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Uronksur Suth
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Posted - 2010.11.24 03:12:00 -
[114]
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.24 03:38:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Bagehi I didn't say it wasn't possible. Hybrid cruisers go with the smallest medium blasters already. Minmatar can stick the big ACs on. The Omen can easily be fit with T2 focused medium pulse though. If the argument is that Minmatar cruisers can fit heavier weapons than the other races' cruisers, the flaw in that is that Minmatar are simply fitting 1-2 less guns to accomplish this.
First off it can not fit focused without heavily diminishing tank and even with this buff it would still need to use adaptive plating. It will not overpower the the ship in the least but let it be fit as effectivly as the others. with the prescibed buff it won't even be able to fit heavies, just a small usable tank and Focused Pulse as well as be more friendly to newer players.
As for the Rupture you are overlooking 3 things.
*Those 4 Guns get a double dmg bonus covering the loss of one gun giving it an effective 6 of the largest AC's
*It still has room for two Energy Nuetralizers and double the drone bay.
*The Omen's second Bonus is to Weapons Cap while AC's are cap free and it uses Nuets.
As for the Stabber it's second Bonus goes to a Kiting tank and it fits the big guns as well.
The Moa is usually fit with Ions not wasting a Mag Stab Slot getting 400 DPS with a 30000EHP Tank
The Vexor can jam a 1600mm plate and deal over 200 Drone DPS and a 800mm with between 400 and 500 DPS.
The Thorax is ok but fitting should allow Ions in my Opinion and the Caracal I would love to see a good Brawler fit available.
In all they all have effective fits and even though I am not happy with the overall standards of the cruiser line up this buff will in no way overpower such a rarely used ship. All I am asking is a small and well agreed apon fitting buff so it doesn't slip through the cracks and will see mainstream use again.
So please give your support for such a cool ship and breeth just a bit of life into it.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:48:00 -
[116]
There are a whole load of ships that need rebalancing, such as the Enyo, Caracal, Vexor, Thorax, Moa, Brutix, Omen etc.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.24 09:34:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 24/11/2010 09:34:50
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Korg Leaf You can fit a full rack of tech 2 medium weapons and mwd on a rupture, moa and thorax without fitting mods. Same with the stabber, caracal has problems but alara mentioned the assault fit only for his example of fitting t2 weapons on it.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. Hybrid cruisers go with the smallest medium blasters already. Minmatar can stick the big ACs on. The Omen can easily be fit with T2 focused medium pulse though. If the argument is that Minmatar cruisers can fit heavier weapons than the other races' cruisers, the flaw in that is that Minmatar are simply fitting 1-2 less guns to accomplish this.
The argument is that the omen and caracal cant fit cruiser weapons, tank and mwd unlike the other major cruisers in each race.
Edit. Bomberlocks what wrong with the vexor, I can see the thorax due to hybrids being crap but the vexor is good
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Gallion
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:14:00 -
[118]
No. no problem running Desired fits.
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The Renner
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:35:00 -
[119]
Omen really needs a fitting buff, supported.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.02 06:31:00 -
[120]
The Omen is the ONLY tier 2 *combat* cruiser that is NOT able to fit a full rack of it's biggest bonused DPS guns. It requires a fitting mod to achieve this.
However it also has an extra fitting slot to balance this out:
Stabber-- 6/3/3 = 12 slots Vexor---- 5/3/4 = 12 slots Carcal--- 5/5/2 = 12 slots Omen----- 5/3/5 = 13 slots
You can't ask for a bonus without having this removed, since it would make it stand head and shoulders above all the other cruisers. it has excellent range with its weapons and the highest hi-slot base damage of all the tier 2 cruisers.
The way i see it, you ask for teh low slot to be removed and get +20% base PG, or 10% PG + CPU.
The omen rocks and with 5mil PG rigs it is amazing. It's a fantastic ship but everyone just seems to forget it exists. -------
[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
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