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Surviving/breaking through a gate camp, how?

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Q'pala	Posted - 2010.10.25 11:59:00 - [1] I'm looking for ways to increase my odds in surviving/breaking through a gate camp. (Without the use of an extra account or bookmarked points in space to do gate scans with) I normally don't set foot outside secure space where concord responds to hostile acts. But occasionally my route brings me to or through unsecured space. The gate camps IÆm trying to break through are within faction controlled space and nowhere near true 0.0 space. I donÆt know if there is a huge difference between gate camps in true 0.0 space far away from faction controlled space and defended by corporations and alliances, but I expect them to be much harder to survive then the ones IÆve to deal with. Getting warp scrambled/jammed is my first issue. For I donÆt yet fully understand how it works. IÆve been reading up on the wiki.eveonline.com about warp strength, yet still IÆm missing something. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_strength Quote: Player A has a warp strength of +2. They get attacked by two pirates, each with a Warp Disruptor I. Player A can warp off because their warp strength is greater or equal to the warp scramble effect. (+2 warp strength -2 warp scramble = 0 warp strength) Player B has a warp strength of +2. They get attacked by two pirates, one with a Warp Disruptor I and one with a Warp Scrambler I. Player B cannot warp off because the warp scramble is greater than their warp strength. (+2 warp strength -3 warp scramble = -1 warp strength) Player C has a warp strength of +2. They get attacked by one pirate in a Heavy Interdictor with a Warp Disruption Field Generator I with a Focused Warp Disruption script. Player C cannot warp off because their warp scramble is greater than the warp scramble effect. (+2 warp strength minus infinite warp scramble = negative warp strength) In the given examples a ship has a warp strength of +2, but I assume this is due to modules or it is a fancy ship with an inherent stronger warp strength. What is the base strength of an average ship, +1 warp strength or 0 warp strength? For I canÆt find any statistic in the ship information that read warp strength. I assume it mostly depends on how many warp core stabilizer modules IÆve fitted to counter any jamming attempts, what would allow me to break through. But also surviving the damage they dish out during the period my ships aligns and prepares to warp out. Simply put, I donÆt know what to expect. So... ...Is there a ship setup that would spoil the Joe average gate camper his trap? ...How much damage should I expect, that I need to be able to survive from a Joe average gate camper ...Whats the average warp scrambling strength I should expect from a Joe average gate camper ...Are there any good gate camper (survival) guides out their for reading? (Know your enemy) ...Is mission Running/NPC (rat) hunting with a warp scrambler equipment build worth it?
Diesel47	Posted - 2010.10.25 12:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:13:46 Fill your low slots with warp core stabilizers. Heres how to think of it... A ship starts with 0 warp points. A warp Scram has a -2 warp points. A warp Disruptor has -1 warp points. If you ever go under zero your ship cannot warp. Each warp core stabilizer increases your warp points by +1. So if you have 4 warp core stabs... You will have +4 warp points and would require either 4 warp disruptors, 2 warp scrams, or 2 disps and 1 scram to stop you.
Nursultan Pyrotechnics Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.25 12:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:13:46 Fill your low slots with warp core stabilizers. Heres how to think of it... A ship starts with 0 warp points. A warp Scram has a -2 warp points. A warp Disruptor has -1 warp points. If you ever go under zero your ship cannot warp. Each warp core stabilizer increases your warp points by +1. So if you have 4 warp core stabs... You will have +4 warp points and would require either 4 warp disruptors, 2 warp scrams, or 2 disps and 1 scram to stop you. That won't save you from a Heavy Dictor. Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. ----- Nursultan's Pirate Blag
Q'pala	Posted - 2010.10.25 13:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Nursultan That won't save you from a Heavy Dictor. Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. True, but interdictors (bubbles) only work in true 0.0 space right? And I'm by far nowhere near true 0.0 space.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.10.25 13:32:00 - [5] Edited by: Abbot Laarkin on 25/10/2010 13:34:21 It depends on your reason for entering low sec tbh. If you are.... 1) Hauling large amounts: Train for transport ships or bite the bullet and get a scout alt (srry but it's the best option). Any med-Lrg camp will probably have enough DPS to kill most haulers without even needing to tackle it. (assuming they lock fast enough).WCS will not save you if enough gang members can get points before you're aligned. 2)Ratting/ missions: Use the cheapest/ fastest ship you can get away with. Fit for agility, as mentioned using the MWD+ cloak trick can help here as cloaks will not have too large an impact on ratting efficiency. Reasonably fit frigs can rat in low sec easily. Mission running battleships are generally easy meat for a camp regardless of fit (again the number of points available to the camp will make most wcs fits pointless). If you can scout ahead in a shuttle you can get a reasonable idea of what's there and how much tackle they could effectively apply. 3) Just passing through: Small and fast...seriously just get something with the lowest sig radius you can fly, then add nanofibres to it :) Unless the camp has very fast lockers (Remote boosted HIC or suicide frig/inty) they probably will not point you in time, and may not even bother to try. (smartbombing BS's may be an issue here). Shuttles also work to a degree. General advice: i) Scouting ahead ( using cheap/ fast frig if you don't have an alt) is always a good idea if moving something big/ slow/ valuable. ii) Have "effects" turned on in Esc. menu...Hold your cloak and look for Sensor booster/ remote sensor booster effects, if you see them be prepared to run back to the gate and jump out. Remember to wait until session change is almost up before doing this. iii) A remote sensor boosted Heavy interdictor is your worst nightmare..learn the names of these iv) If you go down the MWD+ cloak route...practice practice practice!! It's easy to mess up, especially when under pressure, learn to do it without having to think about it. v) Accept that really good camps can (and often will) catch anything they want to, luckily these are, in my experience, few and far between provided you stay clear of the more well known pipes/ FW areas etc. vi) Insure your ship 0.0 is the realm of bubble camps, different playground with (slightly) different rules. Best defence here is bring friends...with guns. Lot's of guns Edit. Hvy interdictor focused disruption is infinite point strength, WCS's will not make any difference at all. These are used in low sec. ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Q'pala	Posted - 2010.10.25 13:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:33:38 Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:13:46 Fill your low slots with warp core stabilizers. Heres how to think of it... A ship starts with 0 warp points. A warp Scram has a power of -2 warp points. A warp Disruptor has a power of -1 warp points. If you ever go under zero your ship cannot warp. Each warp core stabilizer increases your warp points by +1. So if you have 4 warp core stabs... You will have +4 warp points and would require either 4 warp disruptors, 2 warp scrams, or 2 disps and 1 scram to stop you. Thanks for explaining, however, I've read your example several times over now but it looks incorrect. (correct me if i'm wrong ) If it takes a negative warp strength to prevent me from jumping, then with a +4 warp strength, being jammed by 4 warp disrupters or 2 war scramblers or 2 warp disrupters and 1 scrambler would result in a end score of 0 warp strength, good enough for me to jump for its not negative.
Diesel47	Posted - 2010.10.25 13:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:33:38 Edited by: Diesel47 on 25/10/2010 12:13:46 Fill your low slots with warp core stabilizers. Heres how to think of it... A ship starts with 0 warp points. A warp Scram has a power of -2 warp points. A warp Disruptor has a power of -1 warp points. If you ever go under zero your ship cannot warp. Each warp core stabilizer increases your warp points by +1. So if you have 4 warp core stabs... You will have +4 warp points and would require either 4 warp disruptors, 2 warp scrams, or 2 disps and 1 scram to stop you. Thanks for explaining, however, I've read your example several times over now but it looks incorrect. (correct me if i'm wrong ) If it takes a negative warp strength to prevent me from jumping, then with a +4 warp strength, being jammed by 4 warp disrupters or 2 war scramblers or 2 warp disrupters and 1 scrambler would result in a end score of 0 warp strength, good enough for me to jump for its not negative. Ah yes you are correct, leme fix my post
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:14:00 - [8] Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 25/10/2010 15:19:34 This is how the MWD + Cloak trick works: You need an IMPROVED cloaking device, the cheapest version doesn't work, besides that you need ofcourse a proper sized MWD fitted. The trick relies upon activating the cloack and the microwarp at basicly the same time, the speedboost of the microwarp will kick in and last for 1 cycle while you do cloack. In order to warp after you have jumped a gate you don't have to allign your ship really, at 0 velocity you are in principle aligned to everywhere, this just leaves getting to 75% max velocity to be able to warp. When the Microwarpdrive stops after it's 1 cycle your maximum speed will drop, dew to the cloack a great deal making you instantly at 100% velocity. You are now alligned and can warp as soon as you drop the cloak, so in practice this is how it works and in almost foolproof: Have you Cloak on F1, your Microwarpdrive on F2 Select a celestial/gate you want to warp to. With your fingers over F1 and F2 hit allign to said celestial/gate (after your session timer is over but while you still have gate cloak preferably) EMEDIATLY after you've clicked that hit F1, your cloak. No more than half a second later hit F2, your MWD. Cancle your MWD and wait for it's cycle to complete, when it's stopped and you see your ship slowing down hit F1 and emediatly after Warp to 0 on your selected object. You will instantly warp away. If you do this properly you will only be visible for less than half a second, and you will be out in 10 seconds in any ship size. Before people start saying things about that you should first do MWD, you actually can first cloack (you will be visible for les long with this method) as long as you hit you're MWD no more than 1/2 - 1 second afterwards. The only chance they have of catching you is getting a ceptor to in that time double click fast enough on you in overview, fly out to where you were before you disapeared and hope he got it right to decloack you, they have to get rather lucky to do this, even when you're flying a battleship (it takes just as long to warp a heavily plated BS away as a nano'd cruiser with this method) Practise makes perfect so try it out in highsec till you have it down flawlessly and can execute it with ease at a gatecamp as well.
Khors Amtek Inc	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Nursultan That won't save you from a Heavy Dictor. Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. True, but interdictors (bubbles) only work in true 0.0 space right? And I'm by far nowhere near true 0.0 space. Heavy interdictors can load scripts in their warp disruption field generator. Making it a targeted weapon with infinite warp scramble points (doesn't shut off your mwd though). That script will still work in lowsec, bubbles will not.
Q'pala	Posted - 2010.10.25 16:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Khors Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Nursultan That won't save you from a Heavy Dictor. Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. True, but interdictors (bubbles) only work in true 0.0 space right? And I'm by far nowhere near true 0.0 space. Heavy interdictors can load scripts in their warp disruption field generator. Making it a targeted weapon with infinite warp scramble points (doesn't shut off your mwd though). That script will still work in lowsec, bubbles will not. And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper?

Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:09:00 - [11] Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 25/10/2010 17:11:08 Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Khors Heavy interdictors can load scripts in their warp disruption field generator. Making it a targeted weapon with infinite warp scramble points (doesn't shut off your mwd though). That script will still work in lowsec, bubbles will not. And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper? Fairly common, I would say. Organized gate camps are usually done by pirate corps who know what they are doing and are good at it. There are always ways to escape camps; the Cloak/MWD trick mentioned above is probably your best bet, but the only way to be absolutely safe in lowsec is to not undock EDIT:- Speeling
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:17:00 - [12] Edited by: Abbot Laarkin on 25/10/2010 17:28:24 Originally by: Q'pala And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper? In my experience, very common. Our camps will always have at least one, often more, Heavy 'dictors. Some 'dictor pilots will also go solo, Broadsword ( my favourite) works just fine solo. Not sure what exactly would make for a "Joe average" camp tbh. Guess it depends on the area you are in. Some areas are heavily camped, and likely to have bigger camps. In the area I live the "average" camp would consist of 1+ HIC (sensor boosted/ remote sensor boosted), 1+ fast frig/ inty (non-combatant for decloaking), and usually between 3-8 BC's/ BS's. Not a huge camp, but nasty if run well. Some camps, especially near 0.0 entry systems/ FW pipes etc. can be a whole lot bigger. That said solo campers are reasonably common too. Edit to add: If you really want to run around low sec a lot train cov-ops/ recons and read up on how to use them. Never lost a cheetah or rapier to a camp (well not one that I didn't actively engage anyway) Pilgrim can rat just fine in lowsec, and is very hard to catch. Also makes a great exploration ship if you enjoy that kind of thing. Bombers are also a reasonable choice for lowsec/ 0.0 ratting, and don't take a huge amount of skill time, pay-off is better in 0.0 ofc. if using cruise (more BS rats obviously). Peace. ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Q'pala	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Abbot Laarkin Originally by: Q'pala And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper? In my experience, very common. Our camps will always have at least one, often more, Heavy 'dictors. Some 'dictor pilots will also go solo, Broadsword ( my favourite) works just fine solo. Not sure what exactly would make for a "Joe average" camp tbh. Guess it depends on the area you are in. Some areas are heavily camped, and likely to have bigger camps. In the area I live the "average" camp would consist of 1+ HIC (sensor boosted/ remote sensor boosted), 1+ fast frig/ inty (non-combatant for decloaking), and usually between 3-8 BC's/ BS's. Not a huge camp, but nasty if run well. Some camps, especially near 0.0 entry systems/ FW pipes etc. can be a whole lot bigger. That said solo campers are reasonably common too. With your Joe average gate campers I'm revering to the kind that is setup only a few jumps away from 0.5 space. So between 0.5 and 0.2
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:36:00 - [14] Edited by: Abbot Laarkin on 25/10/2010 17:44:21 Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Abbot Laarkin Originally by: Q'pala And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper? In my experience, very common. Our camps will always have at least one, often more, Heavy 'dictors. Some 'dictor pilots will also go solo, Broadsword ( my favourite) works just fine solo. Not sure what exactly would make for a "Joe average" camp tbh. Guess it depends on the area you are in. Some areas are heavily camped, and likely to have bigger camps. In the area I live the "average" camp would consist of 1+ HIC (sensor boosted/ remote sensor boosted), 1+ fast frig/ inty (non-combatant for decloaking), and usually between 3-8 BC's/ BS's. Not a huge camp, but nasty if run well. Some camps, especially near 0.0 entry systems/ FW pipes etc. can be a whole lot bigger. That said solo campers are reasonably common too. With your Joe average gate campers I'm revering to the kind that is setup only a few jumps away from 0.5 space. So between 0.5 and 0.2 Sec level is largely irrelevant, amount of traffic is usually the deciding factor. Busy/ popular routes will be camped a lot, and usually as another poster mentioned, by experienced pirates who know what they are doing. These will also (in general) be bigger camps, safety in numbers etc. Become very familiar with your map, and the various statistics thereof. Identify high traffic areas, and either avoid them or proceed with extreme caution. There is a lot of lowsec that is hardly ever camped at all beyond temporary camps by roaming gangs who think they have identified a potential target. The traffic levels are too low to make it worth while. These are the best exploration systems. Again with the edit: As to missions that send you to low sec.... If it's a popular/ high lvl agent, there may be a lot of mission runners who either brave the lowsec missions, or don't notice The campers know this, they will be waiting. Again these are the agents/ missions to avoid unless you are going to run with a scout or scout your own way in. In these areas camps are only half the problem, expect to get probed out on a regular basis.
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Q'pala And how common is the use of these interdictor in low sec space, used by your Joe average gate camper? Very. A good corp that is serious about camping won't set one up without a HIC. The only alternative is a Lachesis with several points (although in some cases this is better).
Judge LearnedHand	Posted - 2010.10.26 00:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Judge LearnedHand on 26/10/2010 00:33:04 Quote: Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. You may be referring to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQpAhhO6L7Y ----------------------------------------------- Law student by day, DinoPark Tycoon by night.
Sebastian giesel	Posted - 2010.10.26 07:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Q'pala Originally by: Nursultan That won't save you from a Heavy Dictor. Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. True, but interdictors (bubbles) only work in true 0.0 space right? And I'm by far nowhere near true 0.0 space. Dont matter, the focused warp disruption scrip for hictors has inifinite point and works even in highsec.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.26 11:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Q'pala I'm looking for ways to increase my odds in surviving/breaking through a gate camp. Any ship with a covert ops cloak will do it just fine.
Kai Yuen	Posted - 2010.11.03 06:08:00 - [19] Want to survive in low sec? NEVER blind jump a low sec gate. That gets you killed. Remote boosted hictors will catch anything that isn't cov ops cloaked and if you make a mistake at that then they'll kill you too. Low sec blind jumpers, especially mission runners and FW, are my bread and butter. I've caught faction fit Navy Ravens on autopilot. Blind jumping = death. When in doubt, recite that to yourself 4 or 5 times and get a scout.
Gertrude Himmelfarb	Posted - 2010.11.05 15:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Kai Yuen NEVER blind jump a low sec gate. I think this is a little overstated. I live & scan in lowsec and blind jump everywhere in covert ops cloak-fitted ships (Helios, Viator, Pilgrim). My only ship losses have been when I was inattentive and got ganked while in an exploration or combat site. I've run many unexpected gatecamps and never been caught (knock on wood!). I don't doubt that the poster has caught lots of ships, but overall I have found the dangers of low sec to be exaggerated. Get to know your local pirates and where they hang out and you should be just fine.

Steve Celeste Overdogs	Posted - 2010.11.05 16:29:00 - [21] Originally by: Judge LearnedHand Edited by: Judge LearnedHand on 26/10/2010 00:33:04 Quote: Learn the MWD+Cloak trick instead (there was a neat video somewhere, just google it). There is no universal recipe though that will save you 100% of time. You may be referring to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQpAhhO6L7Y Way to go, you linked a video detailing the most lame tactic in Eve.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.06 23:05:00 - [22] Check map and set your statistics on the map panel to show ship kills last hour. If you are real nervous about jumping into a particular system then: create an overview setting called PODESCAPE and put only moons showing then dock up and get a shuttle. Approach the gate in question and look around for suspicious n00b alts or people just hanging aroung the gate on the empire side. Jump the gate in question, while cloaked look around, if theres a camp then just warp out to a belt or something. But if you are ever tackled and going down or ship sploded (in lowsec) then select any moon on your ESCAPE overview tab and click "warp to button" on the bar on top of the overview a billion times a second. Do NOT warp to moons with a ship or cargo of any worth, btw, but Pods are fine for this. Alternately use what all the others have said and fly a covops, recon, a bomber or whatever and use mwd/Ab cloak align deal.
Crazy Morgan Zero Taxation Corp	Posted - 2010.11.07 17:01:00 - [23] After losing 3 Hurricanes to pirates in low-sec Faction space, this thread was exactly what I needed. Thanks to all contributors. Crazy Morgan Not as crazy as he seems
NucStone	Posted - 2010.11.08 07:28:00 - [24] a tengu with covert ops cloaking device
Sagnius Amarr Caldari Scouting and Intel Group	Posted - 2011.02.06 22:24:00 - [25] "This video has been removed by the user." Quote: You may be referring to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQpAhhO6L7Y
Fulmar Muse The Clean Up Crew Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.02.06 23:31:00 - [26] some things u can do 1. Log off, come back l8r 2. Use scout alts 3. Use nub ship scouts 4. Find another way around 5. Wait until DT while using no'1 and then make ur way thru 6.7.8.9.10--->100000000. gang of 5+++--->trillion organised pilots, (5-100 brains, all woking for killmails) is very hard to get past, take it out of eve context and think of it like 50 ** guards at the end of a tunnel, whilst u trying to get out of the unnel, past the ** guads, r probably gonna get u killed, unless u get lucky, or wait until they've left of course all of this applies to 0.0, if ur in lowsec, use lots warpstabs and MWD cloak trick Drinking your reading, yum :)
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Star Rangers	Posted - 2011.02.07 09:16:00 - [27] Tip: The best way to scout lowsec is in a pod. (Though it takes a certain kind of approach to risk to actually do this)
Devil tiger	Posted - 2011.02.07 12:18:00 - [28] Nothing can save you if the camp has brought enough smarts & taclers to bear off a small squad. You warp in -you blow up before you can align + warp. And they know you warped in because they saw the gate activate and you're in the local, ergo as soon as you move you are dead and no longer jump cloaked & invulnerable. The only absolute way to avoid gate camps is to have a "suicide happy" Alt or friend/corp mate to scout & cyno for you.


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