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It needs to be said, don't nerf the Drake

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Jimmy Duce Navy of Xoc	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:25:00 - [1] There are many reasons these include. 1) It is not overpowered, it has a mean tank and weak dps that is a fair tradeoff 2) It is not the issue, the issue is missiles. ANY missile ship would cause the lag problem, fix the part that missiles cause lag. 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what?
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:35:00 - [2] Strength of a drake (and some other popular ships) is in being coherent around job it does, it has just enough slots, cpu and pg, no-nonsense bonuses and fits perfectly to realistic combat situations. While dozens other ships either have some flaw forcing pilot to go for serious tradeoffs or having some meaningless bonus.
Lsohviet	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Jimmy Duce 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what? They use a CNR, and actually finish the mission in less than 12 hours.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Jimmy Duce There are many reasons these include. 1) It is not overpowered, it has a mean tank and weak dps that is a fair tradeoff 2) It is not the issue, the issue is missiles. ANY missile ship would cause the lag problem, fix the part that missiles cause lag. 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what? The Drake doesn't have weak DPS, and it most certainly doesn't have weak DPS for the range it does it at. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Oneiros IV Strength of a drake (and some other popular ships) is in being coherent around job it does, it has just enough slots, cpu and pg, no-nonsense bonuses and fits perfectly to realistic combat situations. While dozens other ships either have some flaw forcing pilot to go for serious tradeoffs or having some meaningless bonus. I think Eve would be a better place if there were more ships like the Drake. The severe lack of fittings on some ships is horribly frustrating (Hi Omen!) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Jimmy Duce Navy of Xoc	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Jimmy Duce There are many reasons these include. 1) It is not overpowered, it has a mean tank and weak dps that is a fair tradeoff 2) It is not the issue, the issue is missiles. ANY missile ship would cause the lag problem, fix the part that missiles cause lag. 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what? The Drake doesn't have weak DPS, and it most certainly doesn't have weak DPS for the range it does it at. -Liang Liang, the range is MISSLES DAMN BENEFIT. At closer range the drakes dps sucks compared to anything none drake. Ofcourse at range is has the best dps, that what equal damage over all ranges does.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Jimmy Duce At closer range the drakes dps sucks compared to anything none drake. Who told you that? A Drake is more than capable of taking on the other BCs close range, slightly lower eft dps is a non-issue with almost twice the EHP, more so as tracking is a non-issue as well. In short, trading in 15% of dps for 4-5x range and a 100% EHP gain? Sign me up...
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2010.10.26 22:59:00 - [8] Quote: I think Eve would be a better place if there were more ships like the Drake. The severe lack of fittings on some ships is horribly frustrating (Hi Omen!) -Liang Indeed, that's a role vs diversity problem. (Epic CCP videos of brave frigate following dreadnaughts into battle come to mind, looks cool but doesn't really happens since merlin won't help to reinforce some structure faster and dread won't help on frigate's job) Let's take Ashimmu - ok pirate ship, awsome, let's give it neut amount bonus because we already have curse with neut range bonus, we love diversity. Result was supposed to be a "better curse" or at least "curse with different flavour" but in realistic combat it appears that drain amount is vastly inferior to drain range. FC: We need some neuting ship x ashimmu/curse FC: Take curse At the end we got ship totally outclassed in it's supposed niche wich doesn't fits to any other.
Artemis Rose Clandestine Vector	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:02:00 - [9] Quote: 1) It is not overpowered, it has a mean tank and weak dps that is a fair tradeoff Wrong. DPS is respectable enough with HAMS, it just loses the superior damage projection it has when it fits them. Quote: 2) It is not the issue, the issue is missiles. ANY missile ship would cause the lag problem, fix the part that missiles cause lag. They won't change it because of lag/server performance. Quote: 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what? Either L2P or upgrade your ship. If you think they wouldn't change a game mechanic because of the effect it would have on lvl 4s, you must have forgotten when they nerfed Torp range. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 26/10/2010 23:06:29 Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 26/10/2010 23:06:11 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Jimmy Duce There are many reasons these include. 1) It is not overpowered, it has a mean tank and weak dps that is a fair tradeoff 2) It is not the issue, the issue is missiles. ANY missile ship would cause the lag problem, fix the part that missiles cause lag. 3) When random mission runner logs on and his drake can no longer tank lvl 4's or kill that stupid BS at the end of Vengeance then what? The Drake doesn't have weak DPS, and it most certainly doesn't have weak DPS for the range it does it at. -Liang It has enemic dps and it's reliable projection is the only hallmark it carries (note: HML FIT, don't try to quote HAM dps with HML range) other than being a brickwith an em hole.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Oneiros IV FC: We need some neuting ship x ashimmu/curse FC: Take curse At the end we got ship totally outclassed in it's supposed niche wich doesn't fits to any other. Then again, for most purposes a domi or phoon would do the same. Neuting on itself is not the ashimmus niche, and neuting on its own isnt the curses niche either. Think TDs and webbing, in fact their niches are completely different.
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:12:00 - [12] It's outclassed by rapier on webbing field (Hello range) and TD is a rare thing out of solo pvp for killing lone turret carebears and it's benefits getting smaller as gang size increases. TD is too situational.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:25:00 - [13] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 26/10/2010 23:27:29 Originally by: Oneiros IV It's outclassed by rapier on webbing field (Hello range) and TD is a rare thing out of solo pvp for killing lone turret carebears and it's benefits getting smaller as gang size increases. TD is too situational. Again, the rapier does fill another role, no sense in comparing these two. In fact, the rapier does not fill the ashimmus specific webbing role very well, same vice versa naturally. TDs are actually quite useful in well designed hit-and-run gangs, a great force multiplier. I've seen small groups of HACs and Recons absolutely demolish a superior force of BCs on multiple occasions due to the clever use of range dictation and TDing.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Liang Nuren The severe lack of fittings on some ships is horribly frustrating (Hi Omen!) -Liang Hey Liang the link in my sig is an Assembly hall thread on the Omen please give your support for better fitting. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Liang Nuren The severe lack of fittings on some ships is horribly frustrating (Hi Omen!) -Liang Hey Liang the link in my sig is an Assembly hall thread on the Omen please give your support for better fitting. Gotcha. TY. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Footoo Rama Gallente Beyond Control.	Posted - 2010.10.26 23:38:00 - [16] OMFG CCP already denied this... It was a misread of the forum admin.... ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:10:00 - [17] ITT: "Derp, possible change, must be a nerf." It's cute, really. They might lose range and gain damage, or lose tank and gain better explosion velocity, etc.. if they change it, it won't be 'make the drake useless'. CCP doesn't do that. Have you even been playing EVE? So the Drake might lose out on being a mission boat for lazy people who want to run them really slowly and people who think low slots filled with shield recharge mods (rather than BCUs) might QQ. The people who actually know how to fly drakes, if there is a change, will probably be pleased. The only QQers will be drakeblob FoTM whiners and incredibly lazy mission runners.
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:30:00 - [18] People need to stop pretending the Drake isn't overpowered. Just because everyone and their mother flies one doesn't make it balanced.
Dario Wall	Posted - 2010.10.27 02:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Berendas People need to stop pretending the Drake isn't overpowered. Just because everyone and their mother flies one doesn't make it balanced. The reason everyone has started to fly Drakes has more to do with the balance of other ships in EVE, not the Drake itself. Drake blobs became popular because they were the only viable counter to other fleet setups that have been far more popular lately. Instead of crying for a nerf to the Drake, people should actually take a look at balancing out the ships that forced people in to Drakes.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 02:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Berendas People need to stop pretending the Drake isn't overpowered. Just because everyone and their mother flies one doesn't make it balanced. The reason everyone has started to fly Drakes has more to do with the balance of other ships in EVE, not the Drake itself. Drake blobs became popular because they were the only viable counter to other fleet setups that have been far more popular lately. Instead of crying for a nerf to the Drake, people should actually take a look at balancing out the ships that forced people in to Drakes. The Drake was always a good choice, it's just that it took something pretty extraordinary to get past people's biases. Also, I think you'd be better off looking at what the counters are and why people aren't fielding them. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Ryan Starwing Gallente Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.10.27 02:25:00 - [21] Drakes are not op. Drakes are very easy to skill for and use, and most people know how to fly caldari for pve and thus can use a drake. Missles dont have to worry about tracking and are almost always garunteed some dps to almost any target in range, and they can do reliable (still lousy dps) to hacs. Null sec alliances recently learned that if you call for drakes you can get like over two times as many of them as you can any other ship, and thus used drakes in blobs. With their numbers, durability, and low but reliable dps(Very Important) makes them a great choice in numbers against the dominant hac fleets. Also 0.0 fleet drakes use hm not hams. Drakes however are very weak against amarr bs and they have very large sigs. If a drake fleet fought an amarr bs fleet the drakes will die horribly, but if that same bs fleet went against a hac fleet chances are the bs fleet will die. Now to summerize drakes are durable noob friendly ships with low dps, and thanks to caldari popularity allows them to be used in very large numbers. Also drakes sheild tank and harbingers armor tank, and FC's do not want mixed logi in fleets. Bruitix suffers from hybrids and myrm armor tanks (normaly) and uses drones(not viable in 0.0 blobs). The cane is fine it is very deadly in sheild nano gank form, but thats more for hit and run tactics not for seiging a system(hmmm sounds like mini play style); the cane still sees some sue for it can sheild tank though in larger fleets. PS:I dont fly a drake
Dario Wall	Posted - 2010.10.27 02:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Berendas People need to stop pretending the Drake isn't overpowered. Just because everyone and their mother flies one doesn't make it balanced. The reason everyone has started to fly Drakes has more to do with the balance of other ships in EVE, not the Drake itself. Drake blobs became popular because they were the only viable counter to other fleet setups that have been far more popular lately. Instead of crying for a nerf to the Drake, people should actually take a look at balancing out the ships that forced people in to Drakes. The Drake was always a good choice, it's just that it took something pretty extraordinary to get past people's biases. Also, I think you'd be better off looking at what the counters are and why people aren't fielding them. -Liang Like I said in another topic last night about the current Drake situation, it's all mostly because of the SuperCarriers. If they were balanced so they don't just dominate normal capitals and battleships, then we'd start seeing fleets of them used once again. But because they are too good at killing capitals and sub-caps alike, people started to fly HACs and smaller ships in fleets. So to counter that, others started to use the Drake because it has enough of a buffer to survive the volley damage, while being able to apply its own damage on target due to missiles. TL:DR version: Nerf SuperCarriers or boost other sub-caps to be effective again.
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Dario Wall Originally by: Berendas People need to stop pretending the Drake isn't overpowered. Just because everyone and their mother flies one doesn't make it balanced. The reason everyone has started to fly Drakes has more to do with the balance of other ships in EVE, not the Drake itself. Drake blobs became popular because they were the only viable counter to other fleet setups that have been far more popular lately. Instead of crying for a nerf to the Drake, people should actually take a look at balancing out the ships that forced people in to Drakes. The Drake was always a good choice, it's just that it took something pretty extraordinary to get past people's biases. Also, I think you'd be better off looking at what the counters are and why people aren't fielding them. -Liang Like I said in another topic last night about the current Drake situation, it's all mostly because of the SuperCarriers. If they were balanced so they don't just dominate normal capitals and battleships, then we'd start seeing fleets of them used once again. But because they are too good at killing capitals and sub-caps alike, people started to fly HACs and smaller ships in fleets. So to counter that, others started to use the Drake because it has enough of a buffer to survive the volley damage, while being able to apply its own damage on target due to missiles. TL:DR version: Nerf SuperCarriers or boost other sub-caps to be effective again. Wasn't there a dev blog saying FBs will be nerfed to only affect Cap+ Ships?
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 03:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Noun Verber Wasn't there a dev blog saying FBs will be nerfed to only affect Cap+ Ships? No; FBs are going to become affected by tracking (because they're causing enormous lag), and will deal poor damage to battlecruisers. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Dario Wall	Posted - 2010.10.27 05:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Noun Verber Wasn't there a dev blog saying FBs will be nerfed to only affect Cap+ Ships? No; FBs are going to become affected by tracking (because they're causing enormous lag), and will deal poor damage to battlecruisers. -Liang http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=809 Quote: This does mean their damage output now varies like a turret does rather than be constant like old missiles (they can wreck or lightly hit now for example). The damage is comparable but we have been more stringent on bombers being more focused on being a threat to capital ships rather than melting regular sub-capital ship classes. Fighter Bombers will be much less effective against sub-capital class ships now and in this scenario you should switch to using fighters. Hopefully once they change the fighter bombers, we'll start seeing the old fleet styles of battleships and regular capitals as the main fighting force for large alliances. Once that happens, Drakes should start to get pushed aside and we shouldn't be seeing any problems with them like people are talking about now.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.10.27 06:38:00 - [26] OMG, ship X is overpowered and unbalanced. choice 1) Whine about it in forums. Choice 2) Train it and fly it.
DjDangle Shoot Without Any Thinking Marm1te	Posted - 2010.10.27 08:19:00 - [27] Alas I hear the Nerf Hammer already... About time :) (Oh the memories........)
Haseo Smith Minmatar Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.27 08:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Xina Tutor OMG, ship X is overpowered and unbalanced. choice 1) Whine about it in forums. Choice 2) Train it and fly it. meh, I dont want another race. that being said whine: I agree that with moms being as effective against BS's as they are. they are cutting out the "rock" of the rock-paper scissors game of BS->Drakeblob->armorhac Therefore making drakeblob far less contested. and moms cant always fill the "rock" role. thus Drake is now FOTM. However, if these new changes to fighterbombers will make BS support fleets more viable now, like mentioned above, then hopefully the Rocks (not rokhs ew) will be seen back in the game more often.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:57:00 - [29] Quote: They won't change it because of lag/server performance. Hi, welcome to reality. You may experience a withdraw from denial as we inform you that this is in fact what is happening. It is not the ship that is OP, its the exploit. I am eagerly awaiting to see what CCP does. If they nerf the drake and dont address the exploit I will be forced to admit they are as bad as the haters say.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:09:00 - [30] Two biggest (false) arguments why the Drake shouldn't be nerfed: Yeah, it's tanky, but it has sucky DPS! HAM Drake does nearly 700 DPS out to 20km. HML Drake does more DPS than any other BC at long ranges. OK, so it has amazing Tank and DPS. But because you use your mid-slots for shield tanking, it doesn't have tackle or utility! Wrong again. Drake has 6 mid slots. That means you can fit a prop mod, 3 tank mods, and still have 2 utility slots. In other words, MWD, point, web, and still have over 80k EHP. Try doing that with another battlecruiser. Hurricane has 4 mid slots, and people still prefer to shield tank it.

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