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Therus Krei
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:19:00 -
[1]
Just an idea but why not give the mega the same special abilities as the thorax but for heavy turrets i.e. 5% less penalty to max cap for mwd/lvl and 5% bonus to large turret damage\lvl. This would also go some ways towards remedining the recent dual mwd nerf which now means that in pvp to get enough speed up to avoid being killed before getting within blaster range i have to run a mwd constatly which leaves me on about half cap before i've even fired a shot.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:21:00 -
[2]
Not much new about that idea.
But you forgot to add that the curretn average 20% (lvl4 skill) tracking binus should get incorporated into all large turrets at the same time, if you don't want your blasters to miss half the time once you got into range with your new cap.
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Lugash
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:24:00 -
[3]
short question you realy don`t want the tracking bonus ?
do me a favor and test the dominix without a tracking mod and then say it again.
mega needs the extra tracking especialy on the range it works best.
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Therus Krei
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:25:00 -
[4]
ok then - get rid of the damage ability instead and increase the large turret specialisation skill bonus to 5%.
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Therus Krei
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:27:00 -
[5]
Make that the large blaster specialisation skill
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:29:00 -
[6]
Lol, hell no.
It would make the mega utterly impopular since it wouldnt function untill you have large hybrid 5 and med and small spec 4 each 
No, give the guns 20% mroe tracking standard, no ship bonus.
Add 10% per level reduced cap use for MWD's (reduced penalty sucks imo), and leave the damage bonus.
Oh, and lessen the cap use of large rails and blasters by alot . An MWD bonus alone isnt gonna make it with the upcoming HP increases.
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Therus Krei
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:41:00 -
[7]
I could live with that
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:45:00 -
[8]
Megathron cap is fine IMO
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
 Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:05:00 -
[9]
err no its not.
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Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:06:00 -
[10]
2 cap 800 charges on mwd approach, then 2 more to keep guns active. Thats great cap imo.
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Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
BuRnEr
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:13:00 -
[11]
Megathrons cap is not fine!
I believe that the tracking bonus is there to stop apoc pilots from useing 8 425mm rails.
Give mega MWD cap and damage bonuses per BS lvl, increase tracking on rails.
Remove 10% cap bonus on apoc and give it a damage bonus.
increase cap useage on pluse lasers and nerf range/L radio crystals (50km optimal + falloff on short range weapons?????)
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:15:00 -
[12]
Edited by: jamesw on 06/01/2005 23:15:48
I think pplz run into cap problems if they use the ship carelessly - A 60km MWD trip towards a Raven is not what a Megathron is for. Personally, I would rarely bother with more than 30km.
Keep guns active with 1 heavy nos, and you power your large rep with the cap 800's.
Edit: If Mega gets a MWD cap bonus, I revise my 60km opinion 
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: jamesw
Edited by: jamesw on 06/01/2005 23:15:48
I think pplz run into cap problems if they use the ship carelessly - A 60km MWD trip towards a Raven is not what a Megathron is for. Personally, I would rarely bother with more than 30km.
Keep guns active with 1 heavy nos, and you power your large rep with the cap 800's.
Edit: If Mega gets a MWD cap bonus, I revise my 60km opinion
I think 'pplz' run into cap problems if they mistakenly purchase a megathron and attempt to fly it. It uses more cap for its weapons then any other ship, it is almost mandatory to knock off 25% of an already-lowish cap, and the slot layout and weapon range more or less precludes using cap relays/rechargers in sufficient quantities to matter.
Right now, Cap Charge 800s are the only reason that the ship is flyable in any way whatsoever. Once the HP changes are made, a blasterthron will just be a loot can waiting to happen.
Oh, and MWDing in at anything with 2-3 damage mods from 60k means that you will not make it. You will not even make it to 20k.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I think 'pplz' run into cap problems if they mistakenly purchase a megathron and attempt to fly it. It uses more cap for its weapons then any other ship, it is almost mandatory to knock off 25% of an already-lowish cap, and the slot layout and weapon range more or less precludes using cap relays/rechargers in sufficient quantities to matter.
Right now, Cap Charge 800s are the only reason that the ship is flyable in any way whatsoever. Once the HP changes are made, a blasterthron will just be a loot can waiting to happen.
Oh, and MWDing in at anything with 2-3 damage mods from 60k means that you will not make it. You will not even make it to 20k.
I pretty much agree with everything you said there - especially the bit about it being flyable if you use Cap 800's. I have not had my Megathron all that long, and I am still perfecting my setups for it, however so far I have not run into cap problems, even fighting high damage ships.
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.01.06 23:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 06/01/2005 23:54:29
Then you havent fought anyone worth his ship yet.
Believe me, I've been flying Mega's alot for a year and a half and it does have a cap problem.
Try approaching a raven from as far as 25 km with oyur injector and nos and live. It only has to have one large neutraliser and you die from lack of cap, skills or no skills. (and my skills are about as high as they get for the specific use of the megathron).
Cap is problem nr.1 for a megathron.
nr.2 is the fact you have to use specific setups for any one task or situation to be able to come out on top. Raven not Apoc needs that as much as the Megathron.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.01.07 00:16:00 -
[16]
I have fought a couple of Ravens starting at 20 - 25km, (killed one, had to warp out from the other). Neither of them were running Cap Neutralizers, and at no time did I have cap problems (I had armour problems instead!!!).
I do see your point how cap neutralizers can ruin your day, however I would venture to suggest that they are a problem for a lot of ships, not just the Megathron.
I was even thinking I might install one 
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2005.01.07 00:45:00 -
[17]
far too many people think that if you fly a megathron then automatically assumes you use a mwd and that everyone else out there does as well.
Well i use a megathron but i dont use mwd or blasters, i use a railgun setup, and i would be gutted and peeved off major if the thron was given mwd bonus, because id never use it or have the need for it, it would be a wasted bonus for rail users.
Tracking is definatly needed end of story and other magical insane bonus people conjure up are not required 1 bit, with 2 repairers (standard tank etc) and all guns firing my cap holds at 35% average and stays there indefinatly.
People who fit mwd on any ship who then proceed to complain about their cap should be shot in the face with a blunderbuss filled with dogsh-it.
Megathron is fine as it is.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.01.07 00:55:00 -
[18]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 07/01/2005 00:55:36
IMO, rails on a megathron are useful in fleet operations and nothing else. They cant track well enough to fight inside warp scrambler range, they dont have the damage of megapulse or torps, and they suck down cap like a two dollar hooker.
The only really useful setup for them is a gankathron, and a gankageddon does that better (And cheaper).
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2005.01.07 02:15:00 -
[19]
hey dutch
got a few things to add..
Quote:
Oh, and MWDing in at anything with 2-3 damage mods from 60k means that you will not make it. You will not even make it to 20k.
Well actually..i've mwd'ed 60 km to get to a geddon with 8 dmg mods and survived easily..however i did burn a few 800 charges on the way..but its not impossible with the right setup/skills
On the note of the thron having weak cap : I've found that if your using electrons or ions it is necissary to carry at least a medium cap injector with 400's to support your cap, however with neutrons i havent found the need to as they are less heavy on cap. As well as when your using a blasterthron its best to have at least 1 heavy nosf equipped to help sustain your cap in orbit ( i use 2 tbh..but thats cuz my t2 ions suck mad cap) anyways..the only problem with the thron, if any would be the cap drain from its weapons, and even then its a minor that is easily solved
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Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2005.01.07 07:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 07/01/2005 07:51:56
Edited by: Luc Boye on 07/01/2005 07:50:39
corp mate and I did test blasterthron vs tanked apoc. We have similar skills for respective ship/gun types, ie. BS 5, all needed gunnery 5 (I only have traj analysis at 4, rest is 5), maxed out energy and mechanic skills, etc etc.
I was using 7 named electrons with 2 dmg mods.
I had 4 cap charges in injector, 6 in cargo bay.
- me landing on top of him (<10km) = dead apoc (6 cap charges).
- me approaching him from 20 when hes standing still = dead apoc (8 cap charges).
- me approaching him from 20 when hes moving away (with afterburner) = mega out of cap.
Now in combat, the chances of landing within 10km from someone or that same person standing still, are pretty slim, unless you are hunting with wingman in frigate that you are warping to. For that mega is perfect.
Also, keep in mind the usefulness of the ship. Lets say you are in space with close range setup, and there is a chance of fleet battle. You have to refit half the ship. Raven switches ammo. Apoc & Geddon switch crystals. 
Also, once I engaged 1 enemy, I have to go to base and refill with cap charges, or I need to fly 2nd account in an indy and haul cap charges for my main account. Not very practical.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
perl
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Posted - 2005.01.07 10:46:00 -
[21]
A normal blasterthron is totally dependent on 800cap charges. when fighting solo this is enough for one maybe two fights if youre really lucky. Thats with a total of ~10 charges witch basicly is youre whole cargospace. And thats the real issue, your effective operation radius is close to zero.
Any non blaster pilot think it sounds sane to be able to do one fight and then then off to base to resupply capboosters and ammo?
i stongly doubt a mwd bonus would change this at all. Not to mention a mwd bonus would have to replace either damage or tracking bonus and both those are really needed.
Another thing that bugs me a bit is the fact that gallente was the race intended for ecm and caldari where supposed to be masters of eccm. Right now they are both. Why not give gallente the eccm bonus? :p
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.01.07 10:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: BuRnEr
Megathrons cap is not fine!
I believe that the tracking bonus is there to stop apoc pilots from useing 8 425mm rails.
Give mega MWD cap and damage bonuses per BS lvl, increase tracking on rails.
Remove 10% cap bonus on apoc and give it a damage bonus.
increase cap useage on pluse lasers and nerf range/L radio crystals (50km optimal + falloff on short range weapons?????)
pulses are not short range weapons and never have been, there your argument has fallen apart
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:00:00 -
[23]
And the fix is simple, the devs have already said they have it in the pipeline and that is to lower the size of cap charges to something that makes sense.
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perl
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:05:00 -
[24]
lower how much? enough for two battles, three maybe? considering there are ships out there that rarely need to resupply...
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: perl
lower how much? enough for two battles, three maybe? considering there are ships out there that rarely need to resupply...
they havent said by how much, but they do know that there is a problem with the size of the charges
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Arud
Originally by: perl
lower how much? enough for two battles, three maybe? considering there are ships out there that rarely need to resupply...
they havent said by how much, but they do know that there is a problem with the size of the charges
If they reduce the size to much then people will use cap boosters over passive cap chargers. And I am sure someone will be able to make some new uber OMGHAXSWTF ship setup (lets hope its Gallente or Minmatar )
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BuRnEr
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Posted - 2005.01.07 12:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arud
pulses are not short range weapons and never have been, there your argument has fallen apart
I take it that you dont agree with me that the apoc is overpowered atm eigher?
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.01.07 13:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Edited by: Luc Boye on 07/01/2005 07:51:56
Edited by: Luc Boye on 07/01/2005 07:50:39
corp mate and I did test blasterthron vs tanked apoc. We have similar skills for respective ship/gun types, ie. BS 5, all needed gunnery 5 (I only have traj analysis at 4, rest is 5), maxed out energy and mechanic skills, etc etc.
I was using 7 named electrons with 2 dmg mods.
I had 4 cap charges in injector, 6 in cargo bay.
- me landing on top of him (<10km) = dead apoc (6 cap charges).
- me approaching him from 20 when hes standing still = dead apoc (8 cap charges).
- me approaching him from 20 when hes moving away (with afterburner) = mega out of cap.
Now in combat, the chances of landing within 10km from someone or that same person standing still, are pretty slim, unless you are hunting with wingman in frigate that you are warping to. For that mega is perfect.
Also, keep in mind the usefulness of the ship. Lets say you are in space with close range setup, and there is a chance of fleet battle. You have to refit half the ship. Raven switches ammo. Apoc & Geddon switch crystals.
Also, once I engaged 1 enemy, I have to go to base and refill with cap charges, or I need to fly 2nd account in an indy and haul cap charges for my main account. Not very practical.
Just a question - when the apoc was running away on A/B were you able to get in range and web him?? Surely you could have caught up to him then... or were you able to catch him, however ran out of cap later in the fight??
Also - nice point there on the cap charges & cargo....
I was thinking that reducing the cargo volume of cap charges could be a good idea. Say, halve the volume (Cap 800's become 40m3) and halve the Cap Injector capacity (Heavy cap injector becomes 160m3). That way, a Megathron can carry more charges without changing the fighting dynamics too much.
As for fleet battles, its not really my area of expertise so I couldn't comment there.
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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