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Dead Jesus
Gallente PeaceMakers.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:27:00 -
[31]
This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
Nothing wrong with Arguing, It is to lessen the ammount of people who use alts to pretend to be someone else.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:32:00 -
[33]
it won't change things a lot, but that's an easy change that will improves things a bit ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Disembodied Torso
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
I'm afraid that you are completely incorrect. This Proposal would in no way limit someone's ability to freely express themselves. If someone has a stance on an issue they should not have an issue with expressing it universally.
Why would anybody post a contradictory argument to themselves or even the same argument with multiple characters in a thread unless it was for trolling or subversive purposes?
There is no good reason not to support this Proposal.
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Dead Jesus
Gallente PeaceMakers.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:59:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Dead Jesus on 02/11/2010 16:01:14
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
I'm afraid that you are completely incorrect. This Proposal would in no way limit someone's ability to freely express themselves. If someone has a stance on an issue they should not have an issue with expressing it universally.
Why would anybody post a contradictory argument to themselves or even the same argument with multiple characters in a thread unless it was for trolling or subversive purposes?
There is no good reason not to support this Proposal.
You are proposing great limits on peoples ability to express themselves, thats the very nature of your proposal. You surely accept, for instance, that one legitimate and effective way to undermine an argument is to 'subvert' it, derail it, or otherwise reduce to nonsense the 'seriousness' of that arguments supporters. If that is a chosen tactic of some, then I see no reason to impose a 'law' preventing it.
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Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
I'm afraid that you are completely incorrect. This Proposal would in no way limit someone's ability to freely express themselves. If someone has a stance on an issue they should not have an issue with expressing it universally.
Why would anybody post a contradictory argument to themselves or even the same argument with multiple characters in a thread unless it was for trolling or subversive purposes?
There is no good reason not to support this Proposal.
Anonymity.
Due to the same reason why we all have an avatar and a made up in game name to post on the forums.
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Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Baaldor
Anonymity.
Due to the same reason why we all have an avatar and a made up in game name to post on the forums.
only afterwards, u'd still have an avatar and an alias to post on the forums? --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Disembodied Torso
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dead Jesus Edited by: Dead Jesus on 02/11/2010 16:01:14
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
I'm afraid that you are completely incorrect. This Proposal would in no way limit someone's ability to freely express themselves. If someone has a stance on an issue they should not have an issue with expressing it universally.
Why would anybody post a contradictory argument to themselves or even the same argument with multiple characters in a thread unless it was for trolling or subversive purposes?
There is no good reason not to support this Proposal.
You are proposing great limits on peoples ability to express themselves, thats the very nature of your proposal. You surely accept, for instance, that one legitimate and effective way to undermine an argument is to 'subvert' it, derail it, or otherwise reduce to nonsense the 'seriousness' of that arguments supporters. If that is a chosen tactic of some, then I see no reason to impose a 'law' preventing it.
They would still be perfectly able to express themselves. If they need to use accounts full of sockpuppets to undermine an argument they should not be participating.
Originally by: Baaldor Anonymity.
Due to the same reason why we all have an avatar and a made up in game name to post on the forums.
I cannot conceive of a reasonable situation where you would need to post anonymously in a thread with a character from an account which has a character you've already posted with.
Remember, this Proposal is not about denying anyone anonymity or the ability to troll or alt post - it is about improving the quality of posting while reducing the quantity of posting.
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Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
I cannot conceive of a reasonable situation where you would need to post anonymously in a thread with a character from an account which has a character you've already posted with.
Remember, this Proposal is not about denying anyone anonymity or the ability to troll or alt post - it is about improving the quality of posting while reducing the quantity of posting.
Knee jerk much?
Christ it was an observation you tard.
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Disembodied Torso
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
I cannot conceive of a reasonable situation where you would need to post anonymously in a thread with a character from an account which has a character you've already posted with.
Remember, this Proposal is not about denying anyone anonymity or the ability to troll or alt post - it is about improving the quality of posting while reducing the quantity of posting.
Knee jerk much?
Christ it was an observation you tard.
I was going to ignore your post but decided to address it in case you misunderstood my intentions. I apologize for my selfish and oafish behavior.
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Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 18:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: Disembodied Torso
I cannot conceive of a reasonable situation where you would need to post anonymously in a thread with a character from an account which has a character you've already posted with.
Remember, this Proposal is not about denying anyone anonymity or the ability to troll or alt post - it is about improving the quality of posting while reducing the quantity of posting.
Knee jerk much?
Christ it was an observation you tard.
I was going to ignore your post but decided to address it in case you misunderstood my intentions. I apologize for my selfish and oafish behavior.
You missed what I did there.....
Anyway getting rid of alts post will not improve the quality. As an example, I post with my main, and it obviously has not improved your "quality" one bit, nor would you ever expect it to.
So to get what you want, you will have to get the forum Nzais (<-- you get who I am reffereing to) involved. And as much as most folk enjoy Gustopo style enforcement of conformity....well you get the idea.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.11.02 18:28:00 -
[42]
it's funny how threads like this seem to attract the trolls out, who want to keep their anonymity just so they can further screw with people, since the majority doesn't really agree with them.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.11.02 18:41:00 -
[43]
Oh, it's this proposal again...
- There is low correlation between quality of posts and if poster is main or alt, rendering your proposal pointless. - What AH needs are better tools for rating/organizing/filtering proposals, this will enable AH to easily deal with both bad and good posts appropriately.
Personally I post with this alt (actually another main) because I'm mainly active in AH and don't want the proposals to be stigmatized just because I'm in alliance _whatever_, not because I do ****posts. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Aineko Macx Oh, it's this proposal again...
- There is low correlation between quality of posts and if poster is main or alt, rendering your proposal pointless. - What AH needs are better tools for rating/organizing/filtering proposals, this will enable AH to easily deal with both bad and good posts appropriately.
Personally I post with this alt (actually another main) because I'm mainly active in AH and don't want the proposals to be stigmatized just because I'm in alliance _whatever_, not because I do ****posts.
1. good posts don't need alts. bad posts do to project a better appearance. 2. the mere fact that u acknowledge it's a stigma because of your proposal and on whose behalf u're pushing it through for means that it is good to force ppl to post with their main. 'cause then, we'd all know u're only trying to nerf others and buff yourselves...just like what u're doing now. --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:35:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Baaldor
You missed what I did there.....
Anyway getting rid of alts post will not improve the quality. As an example, I post with my main, and it obviously has not improved your "quality" one bit, nor would you ever expect it to.
So to get what you want, you will have to get the forum Nzais (<-- you get who I am reffereing to) involved. And as much as most folk enjoy Gustopo style enforcement of conformity....well you get the idea.
so letting the alts post does somehow improve the quality? i guess this notion is why many others do just that, huh?
the only person crying "facist" is u. no one once said u can't post at all (besides the other ones against this that r making **** up from outta nowhere)--u just can't do it over several chars because u know your posts r so bad u need imaginary "friends" to support u. is any of this getting through to u? --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Baaldor
You missed what I did there.....
Anyway getting rid of alts post will not improve the quality. As an example, I post with my main, and it obviously has not improved your "quality" one bit, nor would you ever expect it to.
So to get what you want, you will have to get the forum Nzais (<-- you get who I am reffereing to) involved. And as much as most folk enjoy Gustopo style enforcement of conformity....well you get the idea.
so letting the alts post does somehow improve the quality? i guess this notion is why many others do just that, huh?
the only person crying "facist" is u. no one once said u can't post at all (besides the other ones against this that r making **** up from outta nowhere)--u just can't do it over several chars because u know your posts r so bad u need imaginary "friends" to support u. is any of this getting through to u?
Now now, no need to get your panties in a twist.
The author of this thread stated he wanted to improve the quality. I simply stated what needed to be done to achieve that.
Now say your sorry.....
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Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:46:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Anna Lifera on 02/11/2010 19:49:56
Originally by: Baaldor
Now now, no need to get your panties in a twist.
The author of this thread stated he wanted to improve the quality. I simply stated what needed to be done to achieve that.
Now say your sorry.....
who's getting their panties in a twist? obviously, the one crying "facist". but thx for trying. yes, i know--your sorry. --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Anna Lifera Edited by: Anna Lifera on 02/11/2010 19:49:56
Originally by: Baaldor
Now now, no need to get your panties in a twist.
The author of this thread stated he wanted to improve the quality. I simply stated what needed to be done to achieve that.
Now say your sorry.....
who's getting their panties in a twist? obviously, the one crying "facist". but thx for trying. yes, i know--your sorry.
Oh right, I see what you did there....You sir are a master of **** posting.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dead Jesus This is a repression of Free Speech, people who don't like the arguments of others always revert to censorship, not supported.
Actually your right to free speech stopped at the login button. It's a private computer system - CCP can (and do) censor what gets posted here at will (and on a regular basis).
That said, what does your inability to post from two characters in the same thread have to do with your ability to say what you like? You can still use all of the letters on your keyboard regardless of which avatar you happen to attach to the post, right?
Right?!? --Vel
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Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Baaldor
Oh right, I see what you did there....You sir are a master of **** posting.
took u that long to think of and respond with that much, huh? figures. actually, i had a valid argument, which u conveniently ignored and just continued to mudsling and blow out of proportion...over a forum change. we all know u don't want this because the **** posting u're demonstrating would look even more pathetic if u weren't doing it with your imaginary "friends" to appear that u're not alone. and we all know what type of post u're gonna go with next so in advance: Quote: Now now, no need to get your panties in a twist.
btw, u do realize that in your effort to not use alts to try and "debate" this proposal, u're now gonna using your main in razor? of course u didn't but way to represent your alliance with your **** posting. it didn't stop u from doing so but we all know who it's really from, which is this proposal is really about. see what u did there? if not, plz continue making your alliance look stupid--i'd really love to see it. --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
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Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Right?!?
It baically insults their e-honor (the op and his henchmen) when confronted by a faceless alt that can not be linked to the actual main character they would never really confront in game anyway.
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Disembodied Torso
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:17:00 -
[52]
A lot of people are not understanding exactly what my intentions are with this Proposal.
I will simplify it as much as I possibly can:
A) I have one account and three characters. There is a thread I would like to post in with the intention of offering my opinion.
Using my main character, I post my opinion in this thread and engage in a discussion, making several posts and replies.
There is a thread I would like to post in with the intention of trolling.
Using my trolling alt, I post my troll in this thread and engage in trolling, making several troll posts and off-topic replies.
B) I have three accounts and 9 characters...
I am only put at a disadvantage by this Proposal if...
My characters are posting in the same thread.
It's a tactic or practice used too excessively these days. These forums need this Proposal to be enacted to reduce the quantity of self-serving and pointless troll posting and increase the quality of posting made by necessity.
Support this Proposal.
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Disembodied Torso
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Baaldor
Originally by: De'Veldrin Right?!?
It baically insults their e-honor (the op and his henchmen) when confronted by a faceless alt that can not be linked to the actual main character they would never really confront in game anyway.
You do not correctly understand the proposal. You also failed to observe the sarcasm I responded to you with previously.
I do not have any issue at all with being confronted by faceless alts.
I have a qualm with being confronted by several alts puppeted by the same individual, all with contradictory stances and opinions.
It will always be present in Eve and accept that, but with my Proposal it would, by its nature, reduce the amount of posting of that nature by 67%.
The trolls still get to troll. The posters still get to post. The only people disadvantaged by this are the people who need to have their errant behavior curtailed, it's gone on long enough.
Support this Proposal!
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Tyranis Marcus
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Posted - 2010.11.03 04:23:00 -
[54]
It wouldn't really matter. People who really wanted to troll would just log to another account. God knows, half the people I know in-game have 3 or more.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.11.03 15:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: hjgjgfgfgsj on 03/11/2010 15:25:41 Supported. This is my alt. You can post with an alt, but not in the same thread. It makes perfect sense.
Edit - you know what, they're right, people are just gona use a different account anyway. I guess just live with it.
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Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.03 15:52:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tyranis Marcus It wouldn't really matter. People who really wanted to troll would just log to another account. God knows, half the people I know in-game have 3 or more.
the point of this proposal still remains--placing restrictions on alt posting. it's not gonna eliminate it completely but 1 alt per extra account is much better than 2 alts in the main account plus 3 per extra account. so if the trolls wanted to restore the number of alts they could've previously used, they'd have to pay triple the total subscription for it. hell, u can even tie it to the credit card number that everyone has to submit upon creating an account. and if the occasional troll, for some reason, still feels the need to troll a forum badly enough to pay that much, then it's their money, which goes to ccp as an incentive for other improvements. --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.11.03 15:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tyranis Marcus God knows, half the people I know in-game have 3 or more.
exactly why this game isn't even half as popular as people on these forums make it out to be
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.11.04 06:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Aineko Macx Oh, it's this proposal again...
- There is low correlation between quality of posts and if poster is main or alt, rendering your proposal pointless. - What AH needs are better tools for rating/organizing/filtering proposals, this will enable AH to easily deal with both bad and good posts appropriately.
Personally I post with this alt (actually another main) because I'm mainly active in AH and don't want the proposals to be stigmatized just because I'm in alliance _whatever_, not because I do ****posts.
1. good posts don't need alts. bad posts do to project a better appearance. 2. the mere fact that u acknowledge it's a stigma because of your proposal and on whose behalf u're pushing it through for means that it is good to force ppl to post with their main. 'cause then, we'd all know u're only trying to nerf others and buff yourselves...just like what u're doing now.
1. Letting your standing to the originator of a proposal bias your opinion on it is petty to say the least. 2. I never pushed a proposal on anyone's behalf (in fact I have voted against bad proposals from members on multiple occasions). You demonstrate exactly what I'm trying to avoid: Just because I'm alliance _whatever_ people assume I MUST be pushing personal agendas, it's inconceivable that I'm actually trying to make the game better ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Anna Lifera
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Aineko Macx
1. Letting your standing to the originator of a proposal bias your opinion on it is petty to say the least. 2. I never pushed a proposal on anyone's behalf (in fact I have voted against bad proposals from members on multiple occasions). You demonstrate exactly what I'm trying to avoid: Just because I'm alliance _whatever_ people assume I MUST be pushing personal agendas, it's inconceivable that I'm actually trying to make the game better
1. fyi, the op and i don't even know each other. and u don't have to take my word for it because even if i was lying, that would be more reason to support this proposal anyway. 2. so how is it conceivable that u're making the game better by trying to block this proposal? u honestly think if u posted on your alt rather than your alliance main, it's better because of the stigma avoided? here's the thing--regardless of whether or not there's an ulterior motive behind something, if u give good support (aka quality not quantity) and refute the opposition (aka not ignoring them), it won't matter because even if u had an agenda, the argument would still be valid. therefore, good posts give the associated party a good outlook, while **** posts reflect a bad outlook, aka the stigma. and that's why the only reason u would not post on your main is because u know it's a **** post with no valid arguments that would stigmatize your affiliation, which can only lead back to the conclusion that u're trying to nerf others and buff yourselves with more trolling alts. and we all know it as well so u can stop pretending it's anything else.
at least with your main, u'll be held accountable and we'll know who the idiot/troll really is. maybe then u'll think twice before making your affiliation look stupid and risking your removal from it. the only thing demonstrated here is exactly why this proposal will make the game forums better. and your continued self-defeating attempts, as well as others, to derail this proposal (accusing me of ****-posting and working in collusion with the op) only furthers it. but plz, continue to block an anti-trolling proposal with more trolling--it's really convincing...on our behalf. --- You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks. - Draek |
Baaldor
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:38:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Anna Lifera Hijacking Proposal.
I do believe the orgianl proposal:
Originally by: Disembodied Torso Solution: Remove the ability to post with more than one character on an account in a single thread.
It has nothing to do with what you are ranting on about.
So please stay on topic with the OP's proposal, you have done nothing but troll and derail this thread.
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