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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:41:00 -
[1]
...what happened to the infiniband project? been ages since I last saw some posting about it. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.31 15:16:00 -
[2]
SoonÖ happened
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:21:00 -
[3]
yes, but at the very least some sort of status update about it would be nice.
is it still going? is it on hold? or did they said "ah **** it" and went for greener pastures? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:25:00 -
[4]
infiniband project?
what is this?
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:36:00 -
[5]
Something to do with Linux, according to a brief search.
Like most linux projects, the developers probably had to get real jobs and left it unfinished.
I kid
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Selinate infiniband project?
what is this?
CCP, in their atempt to fight the lag monster, thought once about introducing infiniband for the clusters, making it "possible" for seamless node reinforcing/load balancing, by alowing said nodes to communicate between themselves using a multigigabit, ultra-low-latency network connection called "infiniband", which would pretty much transform TQ into a powerfull Bewowulf-type cluster where you could, in theory, send threads from one node to another.
it was approached in a very theorycrafting mode a couple (3?) years ago by CCP, but we haven't heard anything ever since.
read about infiniband ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:41:00 -
[7]
Hmm, well the name is taken by something else, so perhaps it's still going under another title?
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grimpak yes, but at the very least some sort of status update about it would be nice.
is it still going? is it on hold? or did they said "ah **** it" and went for greener pastures?
Something like that yes. If I remember correct the main dev dealing with this left CCP like a year ago.
However now when CCP finally seems to have a long term plan to get the SOL nodes multithreaded they might have a go at it again.
Selinate, the infiniband talk is referring to this blog btw.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Hmm, well the name is taken by something else, so perhaps it's still going under another title?
I said infiniband project because it didn't really had a name.
they just said something like "oh hey, we're thinking about transforming EVE into a HPC cluster using infiniband!" or something like that. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:48:00 -
[10]
Yay, some searching around and I found the old infiniband thread. Lots of good stuff there and some dev talk.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:48:00 -
[11]
Ahh, Infiniband is a type of network Architecture. I follow now.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:01:00 -
[12]
looks expensive.
Maybe that's why they haven't done it? with the economy and all...
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Grimpak ...what happened to the infiniband project? been ages since I last saw some posting about it.
They decided fake missiles would be the better solution to fight lag.
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Xercodo
Amarr INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:32:00 -
[14]
did anyone else come here and thought it had something to do with this? XD
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
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ceaon
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Grimpak ...what happened to the infiniband project? been ages since I last saw some posting about it.
+1 i want some updates about also
Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
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Fishsticks Fred
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Posted - 2010.10.31 18:42:00 -
[16]
From vague memories I have on the subject, I think they dropped it because of either cost or complexity (or both) compared to the performance boost they would get out of it. I could be completely wrong.
But now that they're talking about dynamic system load balancing now, we might see Infiband come up again.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2010.10.31 20:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: KaarBaak on 31/10/2010 20:29:30 From here
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Within "HPC" we've done quite a few things but Infiniband specifically is still being considered. It wouldn't give any huge benefits today just by switching to Infiniband (none even I think), it's more that it opens up new possibilities between physical machines with the associated software changes.
But the first step, and greatest future potential, is to get things to fully capitalize on multi-processor and multi-core. Like spanning a solar system over multiple cores.
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 09:30:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/11/2010 09:32:21
Originally by: KaarBaak Edited by: KaarBaak on 31/10/2010 20:29:30 From here
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Within "HPC" we've done quite a few things but Infiniband specifically is still being considered. It wouldn't give any huge benefits today just by switching to Infiniband (none even I think), it's more that it opens up new possibilities between physical machines with the associated software changes.
But the first step, and greatest future potential, is to get things to fully capitalize on multi-processor and multi-core. Like spanning a solar system over multiple cores.
so if I understood correctly, not priority but something for the future? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Feilamya
Pain Elemental
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Posted - 2010.11.01 09:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/11/2010 09:32:21
Originally by: KaarBaak Edited by: KaarBaak on 31/10/2010 20:29:30 From here
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Within "HPC" we've done quite a few things but Infiniband specifically is still being considered. It wouldn't give any huge benefits today just by switching to Infiniband (none even I think), it's more that it opens up new possibilities between physical machines with the associated software changes.
But the first step, and greatest future potential, is to get things to fully capitalize on multi-processor and multi-core. Like spanning a solar system over multiple cores.
so if I understood correctly, not priority but something for the future?
No, the point is that Infiniband is pointless if they can't even distribute a solar system over multiple processors. This means that any investment in better hardware is almost completely wasted, because the EVE cluster isn't scalable where scalability is needed most.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 11:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/11/2010 09:32:21
Originally by: KaarBaak Edited by: KaarBaak on 31/10/2010 20:29:30 From here
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Within "HPC" we've done quite a few things but Infiniband specifically is still being considered. It wouldn't give any huge benefits today just by switching to Infiniband (none even I think), it's more that it opens up new possibilities between physical machines with the associated software changes.
But the first step, and greatest future potential, is to get things to fully capitalize on multi-processor and multi-core. Like spanning a solar system over multiple cores.
so if I understood correctly, not priority but something for the future?
No, the point is that Infiniband is pointless if they can't even distribute a solar system over multiple processors. This means that any investment in better hardware is almost completely wasted, because the EVE cluster isn't scalable where scalability is needed most.
by "something for the future" I implied them managing to multithread a solar system.
I remember when they talked about infiniband, and that was the wall they crashed into. After they managed to to develop a seamlessly scalable multithread system, they would need a ultra-high speed ultra-low latency network infrastructure to cope with the ability of actually linking physical processors throughout the entire cluster.
so no, not saying that infiniband isn't the be-all-end-all, but it would still be an important component of the "HPC" project.
or so, I was lead to believe in that thread made a couple of years ago. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.11.01 12:44:00 -
[21]
Well at least its an option. Still waiting on better fourms though. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEPT10
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CCP Yokai
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:32:00 -
[22]
Infiniband is some pretty awesome stuff. There's nothing wrong with it and in many cases it can make a dramatic increase in performance for cluster of servers.
While it's not a dead project at CCP to review Inifiniband and what impact it may have on Tranquility; it also is very unlikely to actually make a difference.
Sub microsecond latency does not really help when you are communicating to devices that can't really do anything with that data that fast. Infiniband was really intended to be an interconnect to shared memory, really fast low latency memory.
So, while not dead, Infiniband is not a top project today.
Always happy to talk about it, get more suggestions, etc.
Hope this helps clarify where we are today and why.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:46:00 -
[23]
/me fluffles CCP Yokai --
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 03/11/2010 10:48:54
Originally by: CCP Yokai Infiniband is some pretty awesome stuff. There's nothing wrong with it and in many cases it can make a dramatic increase in performance for cluster of servers.
While it's not a dead project at CCP to review Inifiniband and what impact it may have on Tranquility; it also is very unlikely to actually make a difference.
Sub microsecond latency does not really help when you are communicating to devices that can't really do anything with that data that fast. Infiniband was really intended to be an interconnect to shared memory, really fast low latency memory.
So, while not dead, Infiniband is not a top project today.
Always happy to talk about it, get more suggestions, etc.
Hope this helps clarify where we are today and why.
Gotta lova every little piece of tech-**** :D It's one of the strongest reasons I play eve :D
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Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
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Posted - 2010.11.03 11:08:00 -
[25]
Wasn't infiniband the technology that would remove session change timers? I'm pretty disappointed that this has been dropped.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2010.11.03 12:38:00 -
[26]
I use an Infiniband SGI cluster with CentOS. The interconnections scale up to 64 - 128 processors very well, the overheads remain small, so it is very nice for massively parallel simulations. I use MPI which would be really bad for Eve tho - when one process dies the *all* die :) Very egalatarian!
I suggest Infiniband, or equivalent whenever, will benefit Eve when you are allocating 8-16 or more cores per solarsystem as the low overheads and latency will start to win when the average query time comes down.
Daan --------------------------------- Internet Submarines is Serious Business ---------------------------------
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.03 13:22:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 03/11/2010 13:24:00
Originally by: Daan Sai I suggest Infiniband, or equivalent whenever, will benefit Eve when you are allocating 8-16 or more cores per solarsystem as the low overheads and latency will start to win when the average query time comes down.
Well at the moment, they can allocate only a single core to a single solar system at most
Okay, they have some services "outsourced" to other CPUs (like the new "character nodes" they introduced in summer). But these are not performance critical as far as I understood it.
@CCP Yokai: In the old Infiniband thread, there a few interesting concepts discussed, such as the idea of dynamically shifting systems from node to node depending on load. I.e. one node handles 12 empty systems, then a hotdrop happens in one, CPU use spikes, and the node goes to shunt the other 11 systems off to less busy nodes so they don't lag.
The other was the idea of making it possible to break up solar systems and give grids their own CPU, assigned dynamically when the grid is loaded. Even if a huge fleet fight was lagging out one grid, the rest of the system would still be fine - and instead of having 2500 people fighting in a system like now, you could have 2500 people fighting at each of the four SBUs in a contested system, for a total of 10,000 in local
I know that CCP never promised anything like this, but I recall it discussed as "this could maybe be possible with Infiniband technology". Let's just assume that it would be possible to implement - would that make it worth the investment for CCP?
Signature? What signature? |
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