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Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
13
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Posted - 2012.08.18 09:47:00 -
[151] - Quote
Syler Puuntai wrote:War isn't cheap.
Unless you're an 8000 man alliance and want to grief a small empire corp. But woe betide if they want to do the same thing in return... |
Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Still Censored
37
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Posted - 2012.08.18 09:49:00 -
[152] - Quote
It should be 500m no matter who you dec. Though 500m might be abit steep, maybe 300m. |
Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
168
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Posted - 2012.08.18 10:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote: So... if an 8000 man alliance and want to wardec a 10 man corp, it costs them almost nothing.
But... if the small corp wants to exactly the same thing in return, it costs the 10 man corp 500m.
Please explain how that makes any sense.
Because CCP wants you to pay more for shooting more targets. More targets = More money. Fewer targets = Less money. Your basically crying because you want to shoot at 8000 people, but don't want to fork over an amount of cash equivalent to that, nor do you want to leave the safety of high sec (ahahahahahahahaha safety!).
So you have two choices available. Continue to whine about how life, the universe, and everything are 42 kinds of unfair. Or brush the sand out of your mangina and go to null sec where no one gives a damn about what you do, or why. One of these choices involves you being hydrated, the other requires you have balls. Space Balls. They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
Lord Zim
1161
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Posted - 2012.08.18 10:41:00 -
[154] - Quote
Or we could make it so alliances who live in nullsec can't be wardecced by alliances/corps in hisec, and vice versa. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1221
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Posted - 2012.08.18 11:10:00 -
[155] - Quote
Would be cool if say your corp/alliance has really good standings with a specific faction, you can get the war dec at a discount, but it is only valid in the space that faction controls. But I guess that is pretty much what treaties are for. Point is there should be a way to isolate specific parts of space for the war dec. Maybe you don't care about how some group operates on the other side of high/low sec. You want to inflict pain closer to home. You don't like them doing that trade route where you spin ships, it is distracting and you lost count. Meanwhile that corp now has to take a longer way around high sec to avoid the 'danger zone' where they can be shot legally.
Just give us a lot more options CCP. This entire war dec really feels like another light switch mechanic. Either it is 100% legal anywhere in the game, or it is 100% illegal to shoot that corp/alliance. Give us different ways to do the war decs. Maybe if i kill enough of a corps ships in a controlled Gallente low sec area, I get to war dec that same corp at a 50% discount and it is only valid in Gallente controlled space. Or maybe if I kill enough directors of that corp it opens some more options.
Maybe those are specifically bad mechanics for a more dynamic war dec system, but I hope you all get the point I'm making. Perhaps some of you have some interesting goals or factors that could happen to allow certain things in a war dec to take place.
I'm tired, heading to bed.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1069
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Posted - 2012.08.18 11:21:00 -
[156] - Quote
It encourages small groups to band together and become larger groups for the perceived protection of added cost to being wardec'd.
The fact that it is deterring you from declaring war on the goons, despite your elite monocle status, is evidence that it works as designed.
It just so happens that it also protects large groups that are popular targets. Such is life.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
14
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Posted - 2012.08.18 14:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Because CCP wants you to pay more for shooting more targets. More targets = More money. Fewer targets = Less money. Your basically crying because you want to shoot at 8000 people, but don't want to fork over an amount of cash equivalent to that, nor do you want to leave the safety of high sec (ahahahahahahahaha safety!).
If that is the stated reason, it's fatally flawed.
1) Large 0.0 entities don't hang out much in highsec - so you're not paying for more targets. You'll get more targets griefing a mid-sized empire mining corp for a lot less money if all you care about are number of targets. But that brings us nicely onto...
2) War declarations are used for a wide range of reasons - to destroy highsec POS, to avoid security hits in lowsec, for revenge, etc. Assuming the same reason for everyone ('lulz they just want moar targets') is lazy and, in many cases, simply wrong.
3) The same war should not be vastly cheaper for a larger entity to initiate. That is quite obviously ludicrous. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
141
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Posted - 2012.08.18 15:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:Why do you need to wardec Goons anyway? They live in nullsec, where you can shoot them no matter what, and not even lose sec status. that's right, they never set foot in empire or use trade hubs.... So bring the fight to them instead of being lazy and waiting for them to wander into high sec.
They don't care about 0.0. They just outblob you.
They do care about high sec where they're so used to doing whatever they want with 0 consequences. Taking that away from them is what this is about - Giving them a taste of their own medicine. I really wonder why so many people are opposed to this ;p |
Lord Zim
1161
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Posted - 2012.08.18 15:44:00 -
[159] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:They do care about high sec where they're so used to doing whatever they want with 0 consequences. Completely unlike literally every hisec "PVP" corp, who relies heavily on neutral repping buddies, of course. |
Antisocial Malkavian
211
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Posted - 2012.08.18 15:44:00 -
[160] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:And yet it is one player affecting another player.
which makes everything you do in game PVP (as it is according to the devs) because youre always affecting other players
Lord Zim wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Lord Zim wrote:And yet it is one player affecting another player. PvE effects other players. It's a persistent universe. Since when did PVE start affecting (no, not effecting, affecting) other players directly?
Since there was a market? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
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Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
14
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Posted - 2012.08.18 16:50:00 -
[161] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:[quote=Shukuzen Kiraa]
They do care about high sec where they're so used to doing whatever they want with 0 consequences. Taking that away from them is what this is about - Giving them a taste of their own medicine. I really wonder why so many people are opposed to this ;p
Well, this is about much more than just Goonswarm (they are an obvious example that many people would like to wardec, and not just because they want more targets).
It's really about a game mechanic which favours large entities and punishes small ones. It's wildly and blatantly biased in a way it clearly should not be. You are financially punished if you are the smaller corp and initiate the wardec, when of course the larger entity should (in theory) be much better equipped to deal with the wardec - financially or otherwise. It's a system that makes no logical sense.
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Lord Zim
1161
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Posted - 2012.08.18 17:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Since there was a market? PVE doesn't affect other players directly, you get isk or some modules. What you do with that can affect other players afterwards, which means that for the most part all PVE is exactly that, PVE, whereas ganking someone affects them directly, which is directly PVP. The only way PVE turns into PVP is when someone decides to stick their nose in while the other guy is doing PVE, at which point it turns from PVE to PVP. |
Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
114
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Posted - 2012.08.18 18:31:00 -
[163] - Quote
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,
Ever heard of one man corps?
< One man corp. |
Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
14
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Posted - 2012.08.18 20:23:00 -
[164] - Quote
Hiyora Akachi wrote:To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,
Ever heard of one man corps?
< One man corp.
One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point. |
Lord Zim
1161
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Posted - 2012.08.18 20:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,
Ever heard of one man corps?
< One man corp. One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point. You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps. |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1691
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Posted - 2012.08.18 21:27:00 -
[166] - Quote
*lol*
This is about people wanting to wardec the goonswarm ?
Hell, i'm sure the goonswarm would be happy to call any enemy mutual so their enemy saves money on the wardec.
Just ask them ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1221
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Posted - 2012.08.18 21:52:00 -
[167] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,
Ever heard of one man corps?
< One man corp. One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point. You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps. How much does it cost to war dec a one man corp? Like 50 million ISK? Still it offers up some options as opposed to now.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
151
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Posted - 2012.08.18 22:04:00 -
[168] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:You used to be able to dog pile on goons but they saw that fixed quickly.
yeh i came back and played for bit, then they changed it and i lost interest again. qfmjt-1 |
Lord Zim
1161
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Posted - 2012.08.18 22:07:00 -
[169] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,
Ever heard of one man corps?
< One man corp. One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point. You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps. How much does it cost to war dec a one man corp? Like 50 million ISK? Still it offers up some options as opposed to now. Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1221
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 23:17:00 -
[170] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them. I'll trade 50m for a freighter kill mail any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Even if it wasn't transporting enemy goods.
Wouldn't you?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
14
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Posted - 2012.08.19 11:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them.
This is hardly an impossible task, especially if you have spaiz. So it's still a lot better than not being able to dec them at all. |
Lord Zim
1162
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 12:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc. |
Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
14
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:07:00 -
[173] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc.
Or you could just move players into a NPC corp which it is possible to declare war against after 6 or 12 months. Either that or people can join a corp or start their own. No hiding from wardecs then. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc. Maybe it should .... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Antisocial Malkavian
211
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Posted - 2012.08.19 19:16:00 -
[175] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Since there was a market? PVE doesn't affect other players directly.
When you sell the mods you get... NPCs buy them then?
Or the minerals those mods grind into
Or the ninja salvager that comes into your mission
etc. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lord Zim
1163
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:19:00 -
[176] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Since there was a market? PVE doesn't affect other players directly. When you sell the mods you get... NPCs buy them then? Or the minerals those mods grind into Or the ninja salvager that comes into your mission etc. Key word: Directly. |
Mr Clean Man
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:39:00 -
[177] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:It cannot be logical for an 8000 man alliance to pay vastly less to start the same war as a 50 man corp. It makes absolutely no sense.
You're right, I see no reason why it should cost more to properly prepare a group of 50 people to take on a sovereign state's army of 8,000. Oh wait.
It's like asking why a midget would have to do more work to punch Shaq in the head. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2012.08.20 15:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Ashrik Tyr wrote:I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.
So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot. Your ignorance is absolutely legendary. What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were. A five-man corp is going to have the goal of shutting down a supply line? RFOLMAO!!!
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?
Sounds logical. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2012.08.20 15:17:00 -
[179] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Ris Dnalor wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?
Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.
So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.
In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens) if you can't afford 500m easily, then wardeccing goonswarm would be rather pointless. I can afford it, it just seems poor value for money compared to the old system. What I want to know is why this change was necessary, as it seems to benefit no-one. Everyone likes wardecs except large renter alliances like Solar Citizens.
Poor value? Your five people can camp a gate and have a decent chance of finding one of their guys coming along on the way to high sec. They could do the same to you, but not many of your five people are likely to visit their camp. You have a much higher chance of finding a target than they would. So it should cost you more. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1224
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Posted - 2012.08.20 16:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc. Not only will logistics be drastically slower using the ships you mentioned above, but the cost to suicide gank one is dramatically less compared to a freighter.
"most common ratting ship type for L4s" Seriously??
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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