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Veri-Veha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.05 22:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've heard a ton of static between MWD's and AB's, but I want mainly tacklers opinions on the matter (since I'm training to be a tackler myself).
Which is better and why? |
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
49
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Posted - 2012.08.05 23:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's not always as simple as 'one is better'. If it was like that, one of them wouldn't be in the game. Microwarpdrives can be very beneficial, in ships with small native signature radius, or ships with a bonus to radius reduction. However, the bloom can sometimes be a huge issue. Interceptors are a good example, since they can fit microwarpdrives without attaining a gigantic signature radius. Afterburners give a smaller speed boost, but sometimes have the same net effect, since they don't boost signature radius by a great deal - this means that you can zip along at a slower velocity, but be a smaller target. All-in-all, it's something to consider on a ship-by-ship basis. There's never one choice that always works.
"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins |
Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
404
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Posted - 2012.08.06 00:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fit both. Heretic Army Warlord and Diplomat Host of Frigfest http://judelloyd.blog.com/ http://kbarmy.heretic-army.biz/
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Paikis
Red Phoenix Incorporated
106
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Posted - 2012.08.06 01:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
For tackling, fit both, or if you can only fit one, make it an MWD. |
Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.08.06 01:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Also , warp scramblers completely shut off MWD's , while not affecting afterburners , but on the other hand , if you are in scrambler range , you are also in webifier range , which afterburners are much more vulnerable to than MWD's. |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV I Know Right
41
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Posted - 2012.08.06 05:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Depends on your ship, tackle is about being fast so MWD when ever possible.
ABs are more for keeping range once you've landed tackle... |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
67
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Posted - 2012.08.06 05:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Veri-Veha wrote:Which is better and why?
If you need to go somewhere quickly and it doesn't matter to you if you're stuck there (due to being warp scrambled): MWD.
If you want to speed tank, or be able to escap from a scrambling opponent: AB. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
24
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Posted - 2012.08.06 06:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Veri-Veha wrote:So I've heard a ton of static between MWD's and AB's, but I want mainly tacklers opinions on the matter (since I'm training to be a tackler myself).
Which is better and why?
Neither is better, or rather, it depends on the situation. As a general rule of a thumb, you'll always miss the one you don't have :p
Personally, I usual prefer to use ABs, except if my ship is "in ur face" configuration (such as Blaster Ferox), if I have a heavy kiter (podla Drake) or if I am a dedicated fast tackler (which also means Warp Disruptor, not Scrambler, because I'm there to prevent the target from running until my team gets there, not to actually keep it slow). |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
107
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Posted - 2012.08.06 08:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote: Personally, I usual prefer to use ABs, except if my ship is "in ur face" configuration (such as Blaster Ferox), if I have a heavy kiter (podla Drake) or if I am a dedicated fast tackler (which also means Warp Disruptor, not Scrambler, because I'm there to prevent the target from running until my team gets there, not to actually keep it slow).
Except in plexes where fleet can't warp to you so shutting target 's mwd down would let them catch up with you and finish guy off. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Aamrr
278
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Posted - 2012.08.06 08:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Generally speaking, afterburners are better suited to armor tanked ships -- particularly when you're expecting to be shot at by a ship larger than your own. If either of these factors isn't at present, an MWD will usually be a better choice.
This is why, for example, drakes fit MWDs. Their signature radius is already enormous, so there's not much benefit to fitting an afterburner. Similarly, battleships also use MWDs -- the only gun platform larger than them can barely hit the broad side of a barn anyway.
But if you fit a microwarpdrive to a guardian, you're doing it wrong ;) |
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Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
286
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Posted - 2012.08.06 09:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Its quite simple, you need a MWD to actually get tackle on people who try to run away. AB is only a luxury tool when you can use it to gain more tank but a web is more useful in most cases (and takes less PG). |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2012.08.06 09:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
MWD is for mobility, AB for signature tanking or dictating range in web range. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
111
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Posted - 2012.08.07 07:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:MWD is for mobility, AB for signature tanking or dictating range in web range. For tackling, always use a MWD
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Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians Iberians.
30
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Posted - 2012.08.07 09:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
It depends on what do you want to be, a kiter or a brawler.
If you want to kite your opponent, fit a MWD and a warp disruptor(and take care not to fall into scram range due to yo-yo or loop maneuvers) A slicer, LM crow or rail taranis are an example of this (althout the tharanis is usually fit with dual prop)
If you want to get personal, fit an aft, web and scram. (and take care to learn how to do loop and yo-yo maneuvers to reel kiters) Blaster boats and rocket boats usually fit in there.
Also, there are some ships which work with dual prop (taranis, dramiel, some hookbill fits), so you have the advantages of both, without the drawbacks. But your only tank is usually speed. If you get dual webbed, you are history.
For tackle, get a tackling interceptor (ares, stilleto, raptor...) fit a MWD and a long point. fit close range weapons for defence against drones and if you can, fit some kind of extra tank (MSE or tracking disruptors)
I have most of my kills in raptors and crows, so I can assure you the inty way is a fun one.
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Veri-Veha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.07 14:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wow, thanks so much for all the feedback.
I realize now that I actually didn't give very much etail to the nature of my question. It wasn't exactly which was better more which was better for what I wanted to do.
So here's what I'm going to want to run and what I'm wanting to do.
I'm wanting to run a Jaguar as a speed tanking/tackler with good combat capabilities. Meaning I can hold my own against someone and not be just a fly to someones face. A good fitting that someone sent me is: -High Slots- 3x 150mm Light AutoCannon II 1x 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher I -Medium Slots- 1x Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner I 1x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I -Low Slots- 1x Damage Control II 1x Nanofiber Internal Structure II 2x Gyrostabilizer II
I'm willing to sacrifice certain things for others but the aspects of my ship that I care about the most are: Speed Tanking, Tackling, and Damaging.
I hope this clarifies the situation a bit more.
I also want to apoligize for my first forum post being so vague and dumb. Thanks again! |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
189
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Posted - 2012.08.07 15:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
That is a bad fit, for everything, not just tackling. |
Veri-Veha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.07 15:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:That is a bad fit, for everything, not just tackling.
Would you suggest something more to what I'm wanting then? The gent was just sending me something he had saved. Either that or I got it off some website. Can't quite recall.
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Veri-Veha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Slight bump |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
131
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Posted - 2012.08.14 08:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have never really been a fan of the Jag, wierd slot layout and a strange bonus for a Minny boat, however the Wolf is fantastic.
[Wolf, Rawr] Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Co-Processor II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Faint Warp Disruptor I Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Basically two shots Ceptors, easily takes Sabres and the like.
Go forth and Kite all the things. |
Lavitakus Bromier
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.14 22:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Use both.
I use mwd+disruptor for long point. I also use ab+scrambler for short point and to mess with dumb mwd that get to close.
Do keep your self to one. |
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Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
18
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Posted - 2012.08.15 00:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Veri-Veha wrote: -High Slots- 3x 150mm Light AutoCannon II 1x 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher I -Medium Slots- 1x Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner I 1x Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I -Low Slots- 1x Damage Control II 1x Nanofiber Internal Structure II 2x Gyrostabilizer II
This looks like a reasonable fit, depending on pilot skill.
It's going to pop like a soap bubble if you get webbed, however.
The AB, Scram, and Web are all saying "I plan to be REAL close to my target" which isn't a bad thing. But if that target happens to have a web or two of their own, and can cut down your speed (and thus reduce your transversal) then you have nothing between you and empty space except a DC.
I'd consider a plate or something at least. Just a few more HP between you and incoming fire. Armor Layering doesn't slow you down like a traditional plate does. Doesn't add much either, but it's an idea... |
Garresh
Opposite of Low
21
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Posted - 2012.08.15 04:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm pretty much exclusively a solo pilot, but here's my failfit I threw together in pyfa in the last 10 minutes. As a general rule though, tacklers aren't supposed to be doing massive amounts of damage. A good tackle fit is just supposed to hold a point and keep them in place while the cavalry arrives. That said, I designed my fittings to be able to take a supplementary damage role once your friends land. Just don't expect them to woo the crowd too much.
[Jaguar, Short Range Tackle]
Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Gyrostabilizer II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I 1MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
This one is supposed to close in fast on a target and then stay mobile *enough* to take a beating while your friends get there. If they have a web they might slip, but the fitting is fast enough that your friends*should* arrive before you lose them. Overheat your scram and AB until someone else lands a point, then turn it off and proceed like a normal combat ship. The nos is there so if you're getting neuted heavily you can still maintain your point long enough. Or, if you're facing a much larger ship it allows you to ignore their neuts and maintain orbit and somewhat speed tank long enough for backup to arrive.
[Jaguar, Long Range Tackle]
Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 50 Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
This one is a more "traditional" ship in that it is designed to hold a tackle from 18-22 km out. You establish a safe orbit and proceed from there. The presence of a cap booster allows you to keep a point even on a battleship with heavy neuts, and the autocannons are for popping drones. Depending on what you're expecting to do, I would switch the guns down to 125mm if you expect to take a lot of drone fire and have very slow friends. Otherwise, stick with the 200mm. When the real fight starts you'll want to close in and provide supporting fire, and the 200mm give better range projection and damage.
Both of these fittings provide a great deal of tank and some cap drain immunity so you can survive while your mates arrive, and both have upwards of 160 dps for when the fireworks start. I put ancillaries on both of them because the module is OP atm, and I don't fully know what you expect to be doing. A pure tackle ship might opt for webs to better kill drones, or dual prop + web to maximize range dictation ability. But, I'm operating on the hunch here that you want a tackler that can transition into a brawler as things heat up. Also, I'm hestitant to run artillery on a jaguar because, frankly, it doesn't have the damage of a thrasher, and it's much MUCH better for close range scenarios most of the time. It can arti just fine, but I just like it with autocannons. |
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