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Oya Grozny
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Posted - 2010.11.03 02:31:00 -
[1]
I'm at a crossroads on my main right now and my corp is trying to get me into a carrier for fleets. I've got perfect drone skills as well as support skill so training into one wouldn't be much of a problem; however, I haven't got any experience with them and i'm not sure what good can come of it (aside from fulfilling the wishes of my CEO).
I'm not really looking for fits so much as the thoughts other cap pilots have at the moment: was your carrier worth the train? Do you use it that often? If so, what do you use it for the most?
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 03:19:00 -
[2]
-NO, I don't. -Yes, It was worth it. -I use my thanny farmer in anomalies daily and my SC alt (Aeon) weekly, but sometimes he rots when fleets thin out or i'm busy. *shrug* -Thanny farms anoms, aeon fleet support, pretty strait forward, and both are on alt characters.
Not sure i'd even fly caps on my main, but if you are worried a thanatos will be useless to you then you need to get your head examined. Upgraded space + thanatos = license to bathe in isk.
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Enduros
Desard's Nation Cha0s Theory
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Posted - 2010.11.03 03:58:00 -
[3]
If you live in 0.0 or at least frequent often it's one of those swiss army knives. Not the best at anything but pretty decent at a lot of things. Very very useful if you move around and need more then one ship with you. Basically, unless used in fleets it's a huge domi that can haul.
+ 10,000m3 hangar+hullspace + Can store 2 battleships or a bunch of smaller things + Jumpdrive + Provides refitting for other ships + Good at repping stuff + At lvl4 skills fighters deal 1200+ dps (+20% for gallente) + Costs the same as a marauder and performs almost as well for shooting rats + Usually safe from small pvp groups + You don't loose drones on disconnect... they warp with you
- Can't use gates - Jumping takes fuel - SC/titan magnet if not in secure space - Very very very fat and slow to align - Capital mods take like 4000m3 space - Fighters don't auto aggro rats - Skillbooks are expensive
As for mine... was well worth it. For the time being it's my main ship. Usually I use it to shoot rats or haul stuff. - This one time, at gate camp, I shot a shuttle... |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.03 09:57:00 -
[4]
A personal carrier is essential to survive in 0.0. -----------
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.11.03 10:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa A personal carrier is essential to survive in 0.0.
This.
Dreads have been made slightly obsolete by super carriers for POS bashing, still used by people who don't have the char/skills/cheddar for a super carrier, but look at any large alliance and that's not many, I believe more people fly super carriers than black ops or electronic attack ships.
So definitely train for a carrier, for a dread maybe, if your alliance needs you to.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:20:00 -
[6]
Wouldn't say it's essential (god knows how many drones out here don't have one yet), but it's certainly useful. Dreads on the other hand are ****. I don't care what anyone says, supercaps do it better, and they're not terribly uncommon (i know lowsec corps who have a few). Stick with the carrier and be sure to pick amarr if you plan on doing much with a fleet.
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xxxak
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:20:00 -
[7]
Carriers are very useful, but not very often. When you need one, you NEED it.
The rest of the time, it sits there.
For some people, they use it more. For example, if your alliance does not have a good jump bridge network, you will use it more. Or if you do a lot of supply/trade work, you will use it more.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: xxxak For some people, they use it more. For example, if your alliance does not have a good jump bridge network, you will use it more. Or if you do a lot of supply/trade work, you will use it more.
Or if you're PvP nomads.
Personally what concerns me is that your CEO is putting pressure on you to get one, while you don't know why you need it. Generally you should have an idea why you'll need one from the way your corp already uses them. If your corp doesn't use them and you have no experience of using them you'll probably lose your first one or two as learning experiences for the whole corp.
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World Director
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:13:00 -
[9]
Quote: + Usually safe from small pvp groups + You don't loose drones on disconnect... they warp with you
1) really 2) it's very wrong to carebear with fighters
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Oya Grozny
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Personally what concerns me is that your CEO is putting pressure on you to get one, while you don't know why you need it. Generally you should have an idea why you'll need one from the way your corp already uses them. If your corp doesn't use them and you have no experience of using them you'll probably lose your first one or two as learning experiences for the whole corp.
Yeah, that's a concern for me aswell. My corp has several carrier pilots and some in our alliance have supercarriers, but I personally have only flown dominix/ishtar/various recons for the most part and never actually bothered reading up much on them. I suppose i'll have to do a little more digging and get my facts strait before I make the investment (although honestly they aren't that terrible expensive compared to what i've plunked down on faction modules for pimping my pve dominix). Also, it's corp policy for me to get a good deal of compensation for loosing the carrier in corp related activities so if I do have a "learning experience," somewhere early on i'd hope that it wouldn't hurt me personally all that much.
Thank you for the feedback everyone.
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El Liptonez
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:45:00 -
[11]
I've had a Chimera sitting in my hangar for 1 1/2 years now, I still can't use it, I won't be able to till at least next year, and it sucks really hard.
A Carrier is frankly one of the best things to have. While I wouldn't rat anoms with it, it gives good fighter support for your main ratting and... It's the best transport ship ever.
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TheKalila
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:01:00 -
[12]
**** yes I regret it.
Once you get over the tediously boring sov warfare aspect of the game and instead start focusing on having fun with small group of friends in small gang PvP - you will regret it too!
Start a carrier alt and keep your main pure for as much PvP flexibility as possible. Being able to fly Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar has really paid off as things change and tactics change. Also missiles, shields and armor can be used in all 3 races in various ways, helps to have it all!
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TheKalila **** yes I regret it.
Once you get over the tediously boring sov warfare aspect of the game and instead start focusing on having fun with small group of friends in small gang PvP - you will regret it too!
Start a carrier alt and keep your main pure for as much PvP flexibility as possible. Being able to fly Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar has really paid off as things change and tactics change. Also missiles, shields and armor can be used in all 3 races in various ways, helps to have it all!
Agree that caps on a main are not something i'd get into (at least not before getting well into cross training), but small gangs are pretty ambiguous things. You're also going to fight up-hill the whole way with that playstle and even the best small gangs want cap support at times. Regretful carrier pilots are usually just ones who moved back to highsec.
Originally by: El Liptonez I've had a Chimera sitting in my hangar for 1 1/2 years now...
That's because you chose the wrong carrier. Chim has a really short and narrow list of things it does well. If shield tanking becomes more broadly utilized at some point, that might change, but i doubt it.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:47:00 -
[14]
I bet xxxack regrets it :S ---
☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
RC Denton
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Posted - 2010.11.03 19:57:00 -
[15]
Pretty much what Enduros said. That plus the fact that there are only a few throwaway skills to get to a carrier. Most of the skills will be useful in other aspects of your eve life. If you fly primarily gallente (though these days why you'd do that....) then definitely get a carrier because the drone skills alone will be worthwhile.
There's some other somewhat boring but very useful things a carrier can do:
1) Super logistics - Repping POS, repping ships in 10/10 escalations (the ones without gates), repping fellow cap ships in fleet battles, etc.
2) Really nice for empire runs and for use as moving vans in general.
3) You can solo class 4 wormholes with them, and do class 5 and 6 wormholes with many fewer people leading to more isk.
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El Liptonez
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Posted - 2010.11.03 23:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: TheKalila **** yes I regret it.
Once you get over the tediously boring sov warfare aspect of the game and instead start focusing on having fun with small group of friends in small gang PvP - you will regret it too!
Start a carrier alt and keep your main pure for as much PvP flexibility as possible. Being able to fly Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar has really paid off as things change and tactics change. Also missiles, shields and armor can be used in all 3 races in various ways, helps to have it all!
Agree that caps on a main are not something i'd get into (at least not before getting well into cross training), but small gangs are pretty ambiguous things. You're also going to fight up-hill the whole way with that playstle and even the best small gangs want cap support at times. Regretful carrier pilots are usually just ones who moved back to highsec.
Originally by: El Liptonez I've had a Chimera sitting in my hangar for 1 1/2 years now...
That's because you chose the wrong carrier. Chim has a really short and narrow list of things it does well. If shield tanking becomes more broadly utilized at some point, that might change, but i doubt it.
No, it's because I won't waste half a year of training time for a ship that can move my stuff every 6 months, rep forcefields/stations and hotdrops once a year.
Who cares about the tank type on a ship that melts in 30 seconds with a proper fleet shooting it.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.04 00:16:00 -
[17]
In the words of the great Northen Coalition, Never Stop Ratting in Carriers! I think they named a station after it. Somewhere in Deklein. Fighters are useful for iskgrinding, the problem is when ******s actually put the carrier in the anom, or leave POS/within 2.5km of station.
Originally by: Templar Dane Tanking is not a role.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 00:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: El Liptonez Who cares about the tank type on a ship that melts in 30 seconds with a proper fleet shooting it.
Generally your fleet shoots back, and since a typical carrier fit costs about as much as a marauder... who gives a damn if it melts?
You're clearly bitter about picking one of the **** carriers and I have some sympathy for you, but the carrier is a lot nicer when you have something to do with it other than POS rep and play u-haul.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.11.04 00:51:00 -
[19]
as it's been 3 years i want a thany and never trained for it while it was my dream... do you think it's usefull on npc 0.0, without a fleet able to help you ? i'm mostly thinking about the "sc magnet" that someone wrote before. ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Wrecker Red
Signal Seven
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:01:00 -
[20]
First off, it's not as if you undock a carrier and suddenly WTFSUPERCARRIERGANKSYOU.
Carriers are, to the displeasure of those who don't have one, and CCP, epic PvE solo pwnmobiles. The only reason call it stupid is because there are a lot of stupid people in EVE, so when you get a lot of people in carriers ratting, a lot of them will be stupid and put themselves in a situation where they could be condemned by a frigate with a warp disruptor.
So how do you not be stupid? Never move out of a POS shield or out of docking range to your station, and ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS fit for PvP. Since you're not going to be in the anom tanking damage anyway, you shouldn't have to refit from your typical setup. In the anom, assign fighters to an alt in a cruiser or af or something. Something cheap that doesn't even need to tank.
========== WRECKER RED GONNA WRECK YO HEAD |
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:06:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 04/11/2010 01:10:50 In the absense of cynojammed space with anomalies to grow fat on the pve side of the carrier is much less appealing(though I hear some people run the odd ungated lvl 5 with one, i've never bothered). You'd be useful to your fleet, but yeah, without your own supercaps to support it you're in over your head quickly when the SCs come knocking. It takes about a minute for a blob of SCs to drop in and spank a generic carrier.
I'd say if you aspire to caps you need to look into sov. or at the least find a corp that operates with a number of them currently so you aren't a lone target in a pack of subcaps.
Also, Wrecker, hiding a carrier (not a super) inside a pos shield all day is for ****s. If you're that risk averse you should be in highsec with a raven.
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Wrecker Red
Signal Seven
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Also, Wrecker, hiding a carrier (not a super) inside a pos shield all day is for ****s. If you're that risk averse you should be in highsec with a raven.
Having your carrier blown up while ratting, also for ****s. There's risk adverse, and then there's, hey lets not risk my ship when there's absolutely nothing to gain from doing so.
========== WRECKER RED GONNA WRECK YO HEAD |
Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 04/11/2010 01:30:16
Originally by: Wrecker Red
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Also, Wrecker, hiding a carrier (not a super) inside a pos shield all day is for ****s. If you're that risk averse you should be in highsec with a raven.
Having your carrier blown up while ratting, also for ****s. There's risk adverse, and then there's, hey lets not risk my ship when there's absolutely nothing to gain from doing so.
Yeah, you're right, why risk actually flying a ship when you can sit like a ponce inside a station/pos shield and smack local? I've had my alt's carriers detonated several times, big woop. I've also escaped gankage many more times and got to enjoy the rush. It's paying for all of my accounts and then some currently with the isk revenue it generates while I pay almost no attention to it, so I think that's worth the risk, don't you?
Personally, i'd never bother with the carrier if I had to monkey with assigning fighters to more alts all night. One dedicated carebear alt is all I have. The other toons are generally scouting for my main or assisting my main in pvp. The beauty of carrier whoring isk is the fact it's nearly set and forget minus checking intel and being ready to get evasive now and again. I've gone weeks at a time without much interruption (and no, i'm not in the NC). I have no idea why you think it's so dangerous to fly a cap around.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:43:00 -
[24]
Edited by: William Cooly on 04/11/2010 01:46:18
Originally by: Wrecker Red herp.
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk derp...
Originally by: Wrecker Red herp?
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk derp!
it's funny because you're the stupid **** he's talking about.
Originally by: Templar Dane Tanking is not a role.
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 04/11/2010 01:51:27
Originally by: William Cooly it's funny because you're the stupid **** he's talking about.
Oshi-!
Why do I have to be derp?
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KA StarLifter
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Posted - 2010.11.04 01:48:00 -
[26]
You could regret it if you don't have the ISK to place the cap ship in situations that you could lose it, or the capability to buy fighters again.
Dread wise, much the same.
For your group to get you to train them up, your group has to have an established ISK-making system down to replace the ship, or for you to be able to make the ISK to replace the ship, in short order.
For a while my group was using Dreads, but not carriers. Then my dread didn't get used for over two years until I joined a 0.0 alliance.
I could easily see how some people regard caps as a waste as the playing styles they, and the people they hang out with, don't warrant the training and use of them.
But... once you're 0.0, and in with a good aggressive group, it kinda is worth it.
---
It really isn't worth fielding a high-skilled carrier unless you have another high-skilled carrier there to remote rep and energy transfer each other. If you don't have Capital support for caps, it's generally not worth it.
But the drone skills you'll train up for a carrier is worth it.
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Dimitrios Ypsilanti
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Posted - 2010.11.04 02:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Oya Grozny was your carrier worth the train?
Guess that depends on what else you'd use the training time for. Hot to cross-train another race so you can get into faction ships? Need to diversify into production? If so, maybe hold off on capitals.
But if you're like me you'll still be playing this game in a year so, why not train for a carrier? You'll eventually fill out your skill set anyway. It just comes down to a decision of which skill to pick up first.
On a side note: I'm fully trained for carriers and dreads and I never use them. I thought fleet warfare was boring until I tried cap fleet warfare. Now it's a new kind of boring where you can't leave anytime you want because you've got to make sure you're ready to cyno back with the rest of the fleet.
Today I just use caps that my corp provides rather than investing in my own.
But at least, now that I'm trained up, I've got the option of participating or not.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.04 02:27:00 -
[28]
I live in low sec and having a few personal carriers makes life infinitely easier. Aside from making the transport of combat ships to new hot zones a breeze, they are powerful ships in their own right. Mine is used almost daily for soloing lvl5 missions and regularly sees pvp usage as well. In pve, they are dps/tank where normal BS's just aren't up to the task. In pvp, they are a super-sized domi. They can bring some serious neuting power with decent BS dps (talismans and a full rack of faction heavy neuts is nasty).
Alternatively, they can be fitted for logistics and with triage, they instalock basically everything and can give a t1 cruiser as much active tank as the carrier itself. As with the domi, those aren't mutually exclusive either, you can make them a mix of dps, neuts and logistics. Just remember that they aren't invincible. Going after BS's in a carrier is a lot like going after BC's in a BS. You can take on a few solo but can quickly get overwhelmed.
All this said, if you don't know why you need a carrier then you probably don't need one.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
El Liptonez
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Posted - 2010.11.04 17:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Originally by: El Liptonez Who cares about the tank type on a ship that melts in 30 seconds with a proper fleet shooting it.
Generally your fleet shoots back, and since a typical carrier fit costs about as much as a marauder... who gives a damn if it melts?
You're clearly bitter about picking one of the **** carriers and I have some sympathy for you, but the carrier is a lot nicer when you have something to do with it other than POS rep and play u-haul.
You're not very smart, are you.
I could train for any of the carriers and buy them all, still I won't waste my training time for any of them.
The only way to use a carrier in combat is hotdropping other stuff (aside from ninja-shooting poses), which, unless done with supercap support/being in a supercap heavy alliance, will generally result in a dead carrier the second time you do it.
Or are you implying that carriers aggressing in 0.0 are not prone to being hotdropped by 5+ supercaps?
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Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: El Liptonez
Or are you implying that carriers aggressing in 0.0 are not prone to being hotdropped by 5+ supercaps?
I'm stating (not implying) that you fly one of the less flexible carriers. You clearly don't have a cap-supportive corp/alliance with which to use one. You also sound bitter about the these things.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:09:00 -
[31]
I do regret it often to be honest. I don't have an alt usually, so I must be completely trusting in corpmates, and completely dependent. I cannot jump without them, I cannot login at dead of night to sneak a jump.
They are a huge asset, that I would rather have as liquid isk. So usually I sell them and waste the skillbooks.
However at a couple points in my career they have been needed, and in those moments they were extremely useful. If I was permanently in a huge alliance, I imagine I would always find a use for them - but alas small gang corps usually don't use it.
If I could, I would dump the SP into another BS 5, or logistics 5 instead. I'll just keep hoping to run into an abandoned POS with carrier sitting in it to steal.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:23:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 04/11/2010 18:34:27 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 04/11/2010 18:29:33 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 04/11/2010 18:25:04 I dont know what everyone else said but ill give you the truth.
1. Dont bother with caps unless you have atleast another account.
2. Carriers are epic for logistics and will give you unheard of peace of mind for moving your assets. This is especially true if you are a 0.0 dweller. They are wonderful throw away vessels for combat as well.
3. Supercarriers have their purposes but arent as flexible for exposure due to cost. Even after the patch they will replace dreads because of bombers and their nice logistics capability as well. "but they cost sooo much more dude, dreads still have their niche!"....when people are making the isk they are in the game now and from the numbers ive seen of how many supercaps are in play, i lean towards doubting that. In my opinion they are cool for people wanting that power play but cant quite afford a titan. ECM invuln is pretty epic of course.
4. Dreads just suck atm. Cheap bashers is all they are and they simply are for those that still cant handle SC costs.
5. Titans, regardless of dd, are simply epic. Jump portal abilities, clone bay, nice guns and just sheer carrying load make them a necessity for anyone in 0.0. Naturally ECM invuln is the cherry on the whipped cream.
6. Rorqs have their niche and arent bad. For those that properly use them they are a staple. Their hauling capability if honor tanked cant be ignored either. Afterall it was carriers first, then rorqs that did logistics before JF's were added.
Thats about it. There are a few little nit picks like dont fly what you cant afford and needing place holder characters for the supercarriers/titans. Other than that its just what you want to do.
My opinion...they are, other than dreads, outstanding vessels for noncombat support roles that they fill superbly. |
Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jovialmadness Edited by: Jovialmadness on 04/11/2010 18:25:04 I dont know what everyone else said but ill give you the truth.
1. Dont bother with caps unless you have atleast another account.
2. Carriers are epic for logistics and will give you unheard of peace of mind for moving your assets. This is especially true if you are a 0.0 dweller. They are wonderful throw away vessels for combat as well. Supercarriers have their purposes but arent as flexible for exposure due to cost. Even after the patch they will replace dreads because of bombers and their nice logistics capability ad well. In my opinion they are cool for people wanting that power play but cant quite afford a titan. ECM invuln is ptetty epic of course. Dreads just suck atm. Cheap bashers is all they are. Titans, regardless of dd, are simply epic. Jump portal abilities, clone bay, nice guns and just sheer carrying load make them a necessity for anyone in 0.0. Naturally ECM invuln is the cherry on the whipped cream. Rorqs have their niche and arent bad. For those that properly use them they are a staple. Their hauling capability if honor tanked cant be ignored either. Afterall it was carriers first, then rorqs that did logistics before JF's were added.
Thats about it. There are a few little nit picks like dont fly what you cant afford and needing place holder characters for the supercarriers/titans. Other than that its just what you want to do.
My opinion...they are, other than dreads, outstanding vessels for noncombat support roles that they fill superbly.
Well said.
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