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Nomistrav
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Posted - 2010.11.04 16:59:00 -
[1]
Perhaps a little debate on T3 weaponry, pilots? Here's my thoughts so far on T3 hybrid ammo (rather than guns) but I am actually looking for delegation among us all, as long as it remains civil. Also ideas for Projectile/Missiles/Lasers would be fantastic as those are not my field.
Using T2 hybrid ammunition as an example to start, here's a proposal that I believe is balanced to a certain extent without losing the feel of a T3 item. With the ideal that T3 is based on adaptation toward certain needs it is in my opinion that T3 ammunition shouldn't be any different.
With that in mind, a T3 hybrid charge should be able to change bonuses/modifiers on the fly given the battle situation depending on which stage is applicable. Stage 1 being your close range variant, stage 2 being your longer range with reduced damage in comparison. Of course there would be a timer because without it would be over-powered and reminiscent of Amarrian bonus of lasers instantaneous loading, so five seconds or so to switch between the stages is acceptable imo.
Accelerated Blaster Charge: Argent S/M/L
The Argent is an ammunition derived from the reverse engineering of sleeper technology. By introducing nanobodies into the molecular structure of the charge, the ammunition is capable of shifting in density on command. To this end the ammunition is experimental and comes at a cost.
Capacitor Need Bonus = Stage 1: 25% // Stage: 2 0% Range Bonus = Stage 1: -25% // Stage 2: 25% Tracking Speed Modifier = Stage 1: 0.5x // Stage 2: 0.75x Falloff Modifier = Stage 1: 0.5x // Stage 2: 1.25x
Now, please keep in mind ladies and gentleman that this is going off of the bonuses and modifiers of T2 ammunition pre-Incursion. Each size charge doing it's own applicable damage ratios but the bonuses applying similarly.
This would give incentive to use the T3 ammunition rather than the debate that is the usage of T2 ammunition or the more expensive Faction Ammunition. However it is not incredibly over powered.
Granted, this method of play would not be applied to Amarrian weaponry as it already can change instantly and would need to be looked at, but that is why I made this thread to begin with.
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Darklord Scott
Caldari Beyond Control. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.11.04 17:30:00 -
[2]
I like it! Sounds like a great place to start
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HardinSalvor
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Posted - 2010.11.04 17:43:00 -
[3]
T3 ammo would be cool (like anything else that starts t3) but I feel that this approach would limit the decisions that the player makes rather than empower them. Right now we need to choose the ammo we load and have spare, and how much of each we put in our cargohold. T3 ammo as you suggest nullifies that choice.
I would much prefer a system where t3 ammo had subsytems style components like existing t3. By choosing the subsystems, you choose the bonuses and negative modifiers of your ammo. It could be explained extremely easily - with missiles for example, you could select warhead, fuel, engine, lock on system, etc. Taking it further, you could use this opportunity to apply more exotic effects like ewar on the target. It would be a good deal of work to balance but less than creating a t3 ship class.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.04 17:57:00 -
[4]
as you have not created a missle specific catagory i figured i would T3 missiles would be loaded into the cargo bay as 3 primary parts. Warhead, body, Thruster
the Warhead should be self explanitory, it controls the damage done as well as the how much, there would be a stanard size with no drawbacks an a High Yield which does more damage but slows the missle by X amount which can be calcualted later, and a Multi missle head which is better for taking down smaller ships.
the body is the main contaner fro the other two parts it comes in standard which is cheapist, a Ranger body which doubles the range of the missle, Sleek body which doubles the missles speed, and Cloaked body which cloaks the missle so you cant see whos shooting you.
Thrusters are the componet that moves the missle , again you have a basic model , high powered thruster adds 25% to both velocity and range, multi thruster which make it easyer to hit smaller targets, and pulsar thruster , which can hit anything on grid but is increadable slow only good againts large targets.
With your preferd parts loaded you select you T3 missle launcher and load your componts into the launcher, with all three parts loaded they are assembaled each time a missle fires ( so with 30 of all three loaded and you fire 1 missle you lose 1 of each part as a new missle is asembaled)
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mchief117 Edited by: mchief117 on 04/11/2010 18:01:36 As you have not created a missle specific catagory I figured I would T3 missiles would be loaded into the cargo bay as 3 primary parts. Warhead, body, Thruster
The Warhead should be self explanitory, it controls the damage done as well as the how much, there would be a stanard size with no drawbacks ,a High Yield which does more damage but slows the missle by X amount which can be calcualted later, and a Multi missle head which is better for taking down smaller ships.
The body is the main contaner for the other two parts it comes in standard which is cheapist, a Ranger body which doubles the range of the missle, Sleek body which doubles the missles speed, and Cloaked body which cloaks the missle so you cant see whos shooting you.
Thrusters are the componet that moves the missle , again you have a basic model , high powered thruster adds 25% to both velocity and range, multi thruster which make it easyer to hit smaller targets, and pulsar thruster , which can hit anything on grid but is increadable slow only good againts large targets.
With your preferd parts loaded you select you T3 missle launcher and load your componts into the launcher, with all three parts loaded they are assembaled each time a missle fires ( so with 30 of all three loaded and you fire 1 missle you lose 1 of each part as a new missle is asembeled)
The launcher itself would have a decent fire rate
I brought this up when T3`s first came out and was laughed at...
Anyways I love this idea, the missile one is way cool. -------------------------------------------------- "If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed" -Me
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.11.04 21:00:00 -
[6]
With regard to T3 modules, I would like to see something similar to how the ships work.
Each weapon type would have 3 to 5 sub-component parts involved in its manufacture, out of a pool of say 30 such components shared between the classes.
So a railgun might have things like a power converter, embedded computer, cooling mechanism, etc. Then, you could plug in a power converter that boosts damage at the expense of range, a computer that adds to tracking speed, but increases CPU fitting requirements,and a cooling mechanism that increases rate of fire but also increases grid requirement.
That same power converter and cooling mechanism might be employed in making an afterburner, though in this case the power converter would increase maximum speed at expense of duration, and the cooling mechanism would boost duration, again at the expense of grid requirement.
Obviously the components would have way more attributes than just the two in the examples here.
With 64 bit item names, this kind of thing shouldn't pose the problem that it would have done.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Nomistrav
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Posted - 2010.11.04 21:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Nomistrav on 04/11/2010 21:51:21 After a little effort and work Hardin and I seem to have come to a rough draft on a subsystem'd ammunition. Here goes for you projectile lovers, and I'm game for feedback =3
Jacket// Positioning Transmitter: 5% sig radius increase on target 5% reduction to scan resolution on user Electromagnetic Jacket: 5% cap usage increase on target -5% cap recharge bonus on user Microstream Emitter: 5% decrease to target's max velocity 5% signature radius increase on user Frangible Chaff: -5% scan resolution on target 5% cap usage increase on user
Core// Highexplosive core: 5% explosive damage increase -5% rate of fire on user Combustable Pin: 5% increase to base armor damage -5% shield hp amount on user Fletchette Core: 5% increase to base shield damage -5% armor hp amount on user Steel Pin: 5% kinetic damage increase -5% optimal range on user
Propellant// Aqueous Fuel: 5% increase to rate of fire -5% optimal range Nitroamine Complex: 5% increase to optimal range -5% tracking speed Nitryl Ion Propellant: 5% increase to accuracy falloff 5% decrease to scan resolution Composite Propellant: 5% increase to agility -5% cap recharge rate
Guidance// Laser Designator: 5% increase to tracking speed -5% to rate of fire Range Calibrator: 5% increase to optimal range -5% to falloff Range Finder: 5% increase to falloff -5% to optimal range Automated Loader: 5% increase to rate of fire -5% to tracking speed
Edit note: Forgot to mention that considering that the Jackets do EWAR bonuses that there should be a stacking penalty so you don't have 100+ Loki's replacing their target painters with ammunition
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.05 00:25:00 -
[8]
CCP discussed this at last years fanfest and like the rest of fanfest except PI it was shelved on the to hard list
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Caldari 5
Amarr The Element Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.05 04:11:00 -
[9]
Idea for adding a Neut effect to T3 Pulse Laser Ammo If I've done the math right the Neut Effect should land somewhere between a Nos and a Neut for Frigates, and nearly equal as a Neut on Destroyers, when filling all available turret slots.
Longrange S Same as Scorch S EM damage: 10 HP Thermal damage Thermal damage: 2 HP Range bonus Range bonus: 50 % Tracking Speed Multiplier Tracking Speed Multiplier: 0.70 x Tech Level Tech Level: 3 Meta Level Meta Level: (whatever it happens to be) Energy neutralized: 1 GJ
Shortrange S Same as Conflagration S EM damage: 7 HP Thermal damage Thermal damage: 9 HP Range bonus Range bonus: -45 % Tracking Speed Multiplier Tracking Speed Multiplier: 0.5 x Tech Level Tech Level: 3 Meta Level Meta Level: (whatever it happens to be) Energy neutralized: 3 GJ
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KaiserSoze434
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Posted - 2010.11.05 04:46:00 -
[10]
Its a cool idea but my gut says this would require way too drastic code changes. Here is a counter proposal for T3 charges.
Adaptive rounds: Make the ammo about as good as faction now, maybe a little better. However, depending on the range to target it takes on the characteristics of that range ammo. So as the target moves toward you the ammo automatically acts as the best ammo for the range you're operating at. Balance with a targeting time penalty and longer reloads.
Chimera missiles: Applies damage to the lowest resist of target. Balanced via longer reloads and some other things I just can't think of right now.
There you would get the flexibility factor "Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." |
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Caldari 5
Amarr The Element Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.05 05:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: KaiserSoze434 Its a cool idea but my gut says this would require way too drastic code changes. Here is a counter proposal for T3 charges.
Lets not try to limit ourselves on potential code change complexities. Being that T3 as it currently is in Cruisers is a new concept in the way fittings work, I wouldn't be surprised if changes to modules/ammo/drones etc will go along similar lines of thought.
We could however limit ourselves to what effects are currently in the game, similar to what I have done with the Pulse Laser Ammo, using Current T2 Ammo and adding a Neut effect which is also already in the game.
Maybe we'll get Projectiles with Web Effects, due to Glue Bombs, or Missiles that increase the Signature radius of a ship due to chaff exploding near it? Who knows, just let the ideas flow :P
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.05 06:00:00 -
[12]
named faction drones have split damage types ( but still below or equal to t2) instead they go like 2/3 kin and 1/3 thermal etc
Perhaps t3 ammo could work along similiar lines 2 damage types or 3 damage type sbut reduced on each individual one. Fits in with ccps design philsophy and would probably be useless in all but sepcialised situations or at least more random
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Nomistrav
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Posted - 2010.11.05 08:46:00 -
[13]
I wouldn't say that it's too hard to implement what with PI and WiS coming out. This is just my own opinion however. I don't really like the idea of it adapting to hitting the lower resist because it's entirely over powered and there's no way to do anything about it as all race's have at least one low resist.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.05 10:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nomistrav I wouldn't say that it's too hard to implement what with PI and WiS coming out. This is just my own opinion however. I don't really like the idea of it adapting to hitting the lower resist because it's entirely over powered and there's no way to do anything about it as all race's have at least one low resist.
tech 3 enam modules could offset this perhaps with reduced firepower or lower speeds or more hits from nosing-neuting etc
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Nomistrav
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Posted - 2010.11.05 17:30:00 -
[15]
So what you're saying is that T3 ammunition will do damage based on lowest resist, and to counter it I would have to sacrifice my own firepower/speed?
This wouldn't work at all being as the T3 ammunition would cause possibly more damage because I'm moving slower, or still have an edge because I can't kill what's attacking me in the first place.
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