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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.07 23:12:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Stupid CCP and their stupid giving their customers what they want. If they keep at this EVE will surely die.
Exactly ! How dare they give us something a lot of people requested that doesn't really have any drawbacks !
Originally by: Dianalexia CCP should add the option to aquire the "Power of Two" offer with plex into account management just like they did for character transfer and portrait swap, rather than using petition.
For next year, it'll probably be there. For now (there's only 6 days left of it, and the Incursion expansion is probably taking all available coder manpower) it's up to the GMs via petitions (GMs don't code). _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.11.07 23:26:00 -
[92]
CCP choosing to charge 34.95 IN-GAME by requiring 2 plex's for character transfer where you can pay 20$ outside of game not using plex to do the same thing...
100$ pure profit no matter how you look at it either way since it costs no money to transfer a pilot for ccp, its all done automatically.
It just isnt right. A company should not treat its base like that.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.07 23:28:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius It just isn't right. A company should not treat its base like that.
Excuse me, is anybody forcing you to use 2x PLEX instead of paying 20$ directly ? The only reason to use 2x PLEX is if you don't want to spend RL cash at all, in which case, RL cash value of a PLEX is not the primary concern, only ISK value of a PLEX is. And since all ISK belongs to CCP technically anyway... Yeah, you don't really have much of a point. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Corozan Aspinall
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.07 23:59:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Zeke Mobius It just isn't right. A company should not treat its base like that.
Excuse me, is anybody forcing you to use 2x PLEX instead of paying 20$ directly ? The only reason to use 2x PLEX is if you don't want to spend RL cash at all, in which case, RL cash value of a PLEX is not the primary concern, only ISK value of a PLEX is. And since all ISK belongs to CCP technically anyway... Yeah, you don't really have much of a point.
^^ This
For me personally - I'd categorically never buy a GTC to realise it as ISK. They just don't represent value for money in my opinion.
However .. I will gladly buy and use plex with ISK for all manner of microtransactions. ISK has absolutely no monetary value to me; it just represents time spent playing EvE.
Plex was a brilliant idea. Plex as currency for microtransactions is genius. Probably the cleverest business/mmo strategy I have ever seen tbh. Its all win as long as CCP doesn't get too greedy and compromise the game balance further down the line ..
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Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
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Posted - 2010.11.08 00:37:00 -
[95]
I think the most worrying thing about this is I'm sure it will add ammo to those seeking to tax such transactions.
In the case of PLEX it's actually not even controversial: Person A pays a subscription fee (or character transfer fee, or portrait change fee, etc.) on behalf of person B in exchange for some labor by person B. This is a pretty clear-cut definition of employment (or, more generously, a financial gift), even if that "labor" is merely spending time to cause some numbers in a database to change. Considering we pay people to run around fields carrying/kicking/throwing balls, I don't see much difference from "hiring" someone to operate a computer program in such a manner.
While in general I'm wholly against the concept of taxation of "virtual property", I'm not nearly as opposed to employment or income tax. Incidentally, treating redemption of PLEX as income (which it absolutely is) would probably do more to stop RMT than any private effort.
Note that while I see such things as PLEX as taxable, I don't see trade of purely "virtual" goods (e.g., paying in-game currency for in-game items) as taxable since that is purely part of the entertainment for which someone is already paying; you're not *actually* trading anything as it's like time for like time, with no net economic change. Any time you add exchange of real-world assets into the picture, however, things become much more complex. Treating PLEX as income is probably the simplest way to deal with it: pure in-game transactions and assets are not taxed until they are converted to real-world goods. This avoids the problem of having to pay "property tax" on virtual goods.
(Yeah, I guess this is my rambling soap-box rant for the evening.)
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2010.11.08 00:48:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Akita T How dare they give us something a lot of people requested that doesn't really have any drawbacks
Someone steals account details, transfers chars off that account using the plex payment instead of a (possibly stolen) credit card.
How does the legitimate owner prove it wasn't them? What security measures are in place?
Remember, this is the "secure" part of the website where code was put in "by mistake".
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 00:51:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Shirley Serious Someone steals account details, transfers chars off that account using the plex payment instead of a possibly stolen credit card. How does the legitimate owner prove it wasn't them? What security measures are in place?
The same way he does now. Quick petition for being hacked, investigation, request by CCP for account creation details or yada yada, and eventually maybe refund if he's lucky. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Don ZOLA
Caldari TunDraGon Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.08 01:19:00 -
[98]
I hope they enable buying from eve store with plex. But for realistic prices, not some ripoff!
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RutilusUnus
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Posted - 2010.11.08 02:43:00 -
[99]
If PLEX were to get too crazy with price then I'd just cancel my sub.
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Tather Demaleon
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Posted - 2010.11.08 05:10:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Don ZOLA I hope they enable buying from eve store with plex. But for realistic prices, not some ripoff!
I believe they're already selling their stock for cost or below. I do not have any proof of this however except for some mumbling from ccpers I know.
[td]
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.11.08 05:35:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Cor Aidan I think the most worrying thing about this is I'm sure it will add ammo to those seeking to tax such transactions.
In the case of PLEX it's actually not even controversial: Person A pays a subscription fee (or character transfer fee, or portrait change fee, etc.) on behalf of person B in exchange for some labor by person B. This is a pretty clear-cut definition of employment (or, more generously, a financial gift), even if that "labor" is merely spending time to cause some numbers in a database to change. Considering we pay people to run around fields carrying/kicking/throwing balls, I don't see much difference from "hiring" someone to operate a computer program in such a manner.
While in general I'm wholly against the concept of taxation of "virtual property", I'm not nearly as opposed to employment or income tax. Incidentally, treating redemption of PLEX as income (which it absolutely is) would probably do more to stop RMT than any private effort.
Note that while I see such things as PLEX as taxable, I don't see trade of purely "virtual" goods (e.g., paying in-game currency for in-game items) as taxable since that is purely part of the entertainment for which someone is already paying; you're not *actually* trading anything as it's like time for like time, with no net economic change. Any time you add exchange of real-world assets into the picture, however, things become much more complex. Treating PLEX as income is probably the simplest way to deal with it: pure in-game transactions and assets are not taxed until they are converted to real-world goods. This avoids the problem of having to pay "property tax" on virtual goods.
(Yeah, I guess this is my rambling soap-box rant for the evening.)
I used to buy old appartment buildings.. and rehab them entirely.. enw plumbling electaical lines, repari foundations etc... I'd take a building worth 300k and make it worth 600k.. none of that work was taxable until I sold the property... I held many of the properties for 10 years... only ... (i often borrowed against the 600k equity.. maybe pulling out 500k enough .. but the borrowing wasn't a taxable event.
What Im saying it, all in game assets are sweat equity.. there is no taxable even until they are sold.
If you want a hobby equivlent .. thing of growing a 10k$ prize koi fish.... you might have it as an asset but growing a koi fish isn't taxable, onlyt the asale of it.
In game assets are in game... when you convert the in game asset to cash, realizing the profit it is then taxable.
I do agree with the peopl making a different case fo rt-shirts though. The barter laws might apply there, because you are bringing the value of an in game asset to an out of game asset. Sure its all complicated stuff, (and there's stuff barter rules vs tax exempt "like kind exchanges" and all sort of stuff. And there are all sorts of different countries andn local diffrences in laws.
Still, the notion of an in-game asset vs an out of game asset would only apply when in game assets can be used to buy out of game assets. using out of game assets to buy in-game assets iss a one way step and just a payment to ccp for entertainment or what-have you.
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Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.08 05:51:00 -
[102]
I have serious doubt that CCP will ever sell raw SPs for PLEX.
Allow purchase of faster training for SPs with PLEX? Yes Allow purchase of existing characters for PLEX? Yes Allow purchase of raw SPs for PLEX? No
This is similar to being able to use RL money to buy lots of stuff "EXCEPT" top end armor and weapons in WoW (gargles acid to purge the evil taste...).
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Dianalexia
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Posted - 2010.11.08 08:33:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Dianalexia on 08/11/2010 08:44:43
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Dianalexia CCP should add the option to aquire the "Power of Two" offer with plex into account management just like they did for character transfer and portrait swap, rather than using petition.
For next year, it'll probably be there. For now (there's only 6 days left of it, and the Incursion expansion is probably taking all available coder manpower) it's up to the GMs via petitions (GMs don't code).
It should not take long since CCP has a web development team and all the necessary code is already there: the part for automatically creating an account for the "power of two" offer (account - power of two) and the part for plex looking and using (character portrait and account swap).
In conclusion, the web development guys need to add the already existing "Plex as payment method" code.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 08:49:00 -
[104]
Maybe those guys are also busy with something else related to the Incursion expansion. Maybe they're tinkering with EVE-Gate a lot, maybe they're updating something else, a lot of maybes. Sure, they could put that up too, but... meh. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.08 09:38:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot I have serious doubt that CCP will ever sell raw SPs for PLEX.
Allow purchase of faster training for SPs with PLEX? Yes Allow purchase of existing characters for PLEX? Yes Allow purchase of raw SPs for PLEX? No
This is similar to being able to use RL money to buy lots of stuff "EXCEPT" top end armor and weapons in WoW (gargles acid to purge the evil taste...).
You neglected to mention allowing for skill remap/respec meaning you have/buy a character then dump x skills/skillpoints and get to redistribute them based for whatever you want. That essentially is buying SP but because the SP exists and you only 'pay' for the respec it isn't that bad as some will say and since some people want it CCP will have no problem doing it. With such a system there really isn't a need to sell direct SP because much like PLEX it essentially does the thing without doing the thing through facilitation, PLEX's thing having been (past tense) buying ISK with real $.
--Welcome to EVE where 'Commit to Excellence' means trying to squeeze another dime out of the player base.-- |
Ur235
TAKEN. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.11.08 09:50:00 -
[106]
Bad move im completley agaisnt all of this using plex to buy account time a neural remap etc. But hey at the end of the day its the money that counts for them
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.08 09:56:00 -
[107]
Seeing as character transfers, facelifts and gametime isn't new changes to the game, this makes much more sense than PLEX for remaps.
It's quite obvious that CCP is bent on using PLEX as an ISK sink, while it also serves as endorsed alternative to direct but unsanctioned RMT. I'd prefer they do it this way rather than selling SP, ships or other game-affecting items.
This is a very slippery slope, though.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:05:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Illwill Bill It's quite obvious that CCP is bent on using PLEX as an ISK sink.
PLEX isn't an ISK sink, no ISK is removed from the game but only moved between players. So no, no ISK sink.
Instead CCP is bent on making more money. Every plex not being used for gametime = extra profit for CCP.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:11:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Illwill Bill on 08/11/2010 10:13:54
Originally by: Jennifer Starling no ISK sink
You're right, of course. I meant using this as a PLEX sink.
My bad, I apoligize.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
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Cryptkiller
Minmatar Ebola Allstars
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:26:00 -
[110]
How the heck are you guys getting the Power of Two payment options to display Plex as a payment option? When I tried 2 days in a row now, it just shows pay by Credit Card or Debit only
This some kind of Euro exclusive thing?
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Dianalexia
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:46:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Akita T Maybe those guys are also busy with something else related to the Incursion expansion. Maybe they're tinkering with EVE-Gate a lot, maybe they're updating something else, a lot of maybes. Sure, they could put that up too, but... meh.
Yeah, sure... but the truth is this should not take more than 10-15 min to put in. This is important as it will free up GM time for this and future promotions. Waiting for GM's is... meh.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:59:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/11/2010 11:00:10
Originally by: Dianalexia the truth is this should not take more than 10-15 min to put in
The truth is that fixing a typo in an item description should take a few seconds. Yet sometimes it takes a couple of years.
Originally by: Cryptkiller How the heck are you guys getting the Power of Two payment options to display Plex as a payment option? When I tried 2 days in a row now, it just shows pay by Credit Card or Debit only This some kind of Euro exclusive thing?
Look at the third picture closer. You have to PETITION it.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Alexia Diana
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Posted - 2010.11.08 12:32:00 -
[113]
For those of us not subscribed to EVE newsletter , could you please specify the petition category and subcategory? tyvm
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Buhle
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Posted - 2010.11.08 13:04:00 -
[114]
Can I train another toon on same account for a plex please?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 13:08:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/11/2010 13:11:02
Originally by: Alexia Diana For those of us not subscribed to EVE newsletter , could you please specify the petition category and subcategory? tyvm
Details you need : http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1299/3plex.jpg
Petition link : https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/NewPetitionInfo.aspx?categoryID=95&utm_source=offer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=po2 That link is simply "Billing&Account" -> "Time Codes and PLEX" with a few qualifiers that can probably be left out.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Alexia Diana
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Posted - 2010.11.08 13:16:00 -
[116]
Sweet, thank you very much for the link!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.08 14:34:00 -
[117]
I wonder how many ^2 accounts will be created with PLEX this week _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.11.08 14:55:00 -
[118]
I got that mail.... it was very tempting. Very tempting indeed.
But then I decided I really didn't need a 5th account.
Then was tempted some more, then decided I didn't need any more again.
But..... SO TEMPTING!!! *** Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! |
Alexia Diana
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Posted - 2010.11.08 15:06:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Akita T I wonder how many ^2 accounts will be created with PLEX this week
Not too many m8. Still waiting for the petition to be processed. The process should have been automated, rather than waiting for GM's
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Cyrus Doul
Infinite Covenant
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Posted - 2010.11.08 15:08:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 08/11/2010 15:13:34 I almost want to make a fourth account. But I would A) Go crazy. and B) probabally close it after month 6 Cause I'm a broke college boy.
As to getting rid of the paper trail for char swaps. I could just go to CVS, Walgreens, your local corner pharmacy, buy one of those internet gift card things, and boom, no paper trail as they are not linked to any name. I am guessing it would accept it because unlike paying your sub with one and having it complain that it can not do recurring things Char Swap is a one off.
Plex for stuff in store can not happen though. Doing so would mean ccp would have two options. Price stuff at cost and make no money. Or price stuff at ripoff so you have to blow >1 plex for 1 plex of goods. Also doing this would be a direct form of RMT as i would buy the item, recieve it, then ebay my shiny new raven model and get currency out of the deal.
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