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Miko Nguyen
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Posted - 2010.11.09 20:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Miko Nguyen on 09/11/2010 20:00:00 What exactly is the definition of pirating. It's like everyone wants to yarr just for the sake of yarr or come as cool. But there seems to be a big gray area as to what is or isn't pirating. For example, simply being in lowsec and gatecamping isn't pirating to me. That's just, well, gatecamping.
But ransoming couriers and mining ships would constitute pirating. Ransoming another ship you are in combat is not pirating, IMHO.
Thoughts?
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Izuru Hishido
Amarr Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.09 20:10:00 -
[2]
Pirating implies that someone is trying to do it for a profit while most people out there are just doing it for the hell of it. I was in lowsec for the better part of two years and I effectively found no reason to ransom because more often than not, the ship kill itself was worth it (yes, that even extends down to destroyers and nubships.) I was out there for the hell of it, but for some time I was around a group that would scram someone who had no chance of killing them, ransom, and sometimes made a fair bit of isk.
Its all their own definition of fun. Some people think its more fun to hear people whine about being ransomed, but I'd rather just kill them and be done with it. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his." |
Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.11.09 20:11:00 -
[3]
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
In other words, it's a personal issue. See, I would view gatecamping in low sec as piracy for the most part, unless you are in factional warfare and only targeting members of the opposing faction. After all, you are attacking peopple for no other reason then fun and profit. That seems like piracy to me, but again, to each their own.
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Exploited Engineer
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Posted - 2010.11.09 20:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Miko Nguyen What exactly is the definition of pirating.
Involuntary PvP for fun and/or profit?
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.11.09 21:35:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mutnin on 09/11/2010 21:36:26
I think a lot of people take the definition of "piracy" in EVE a bit too literally.
If you look at basic game mechanics, the NPC pirates don't hold true to being "real pirates" as they don't try to ransom you in belts, they are just there trying to blow up your ship and they don't collect your loot meaning they are just KM *****s..
Then if you claim that it has to be for profit, at that point anyone whom PVP's, could literally fit that role assuming they loot the wrecks of the ships they killed.
There are many forms of piracy in EVE and yes you are correct that just sitting on a gate doesn't make one a pirate, nor does just catching some random guy in a belt/mission and killing him.
To me a pirate is someone whom is an outlaw and past -5 sec status and can no longer freely move in high sec. If you don't have the balls to go full flashy, then you aren't a pirate IMO.
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Enno Duluoz
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Posted - 2010.11.09 21:52:00 -
[6]
but but but - their loot...
pirating is pewing for profit. but for most, it's a playstyle.
---
Hi! I'm New! |
Darrk Darkness
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Posted - 2010.11.09 21:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Darrk Darkness on 09/11/2010 21:54:23 Let me clear up a few things about eve terminology.
Pirate - a player or group of players that coerces other players to do things for the pirate's benefit. Example: lock scramble a fully fitted nightmare doing a mission or moving from system, pay me(us) what that ship is worth or well blow it up. Nightmare says heres 1.5b pirate(s) unlocks and goes on his way. Pirate can also destroy said nightmare and ransom pod and therefore becomes known generally as a F*g(s).
Privateer - Pirates hired subtly by a nation mainly to harass and ransom another nation's assets. Not referred to as mercenaries.
Bountyf*gs - Players that play solely to gain reputation as ruthless destroyers. Generally not willing to negotiate will do the most to grief to get as much bounty posted from you as possible. Generally something you wan't to avoid.
Mercenary - Group of players, not necessarily pirates but can be; hired by a nation, corp, or alliance to act as part of their military force.
Griefer - Generally people that will ninja loot your items to get you to shoot at them, salvage your wrecks, try to can flip you or plain suicide your bestower filled with expensive crap. Generally unavoidable, mostly people that get off on making people miserable.Griefers generally constitute 50% of the population of trade hubs and trade lanes.
Spy - extremely untrustworthy person remember this person is a spy and will do anything to save his own ass, but first you have to find out.
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Mopsy Six
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Posted - 2010.11.09 23:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Miko Nguyen Edited by: Miko Nguyen on 09/11/2010 20:21:23 What exactly is the definition of pirating. It's like everyone wants to yarr just for the sake of yarr or come off as cool. But there seems to be a big gray area as to what is or isn't pirating. For example, simply being in lowsec and gatecamping isn't pirating to me. That's just, well, gatecamping.
But ransoming couriers and mining ships would constitute pirating. Ransoming another ship you are in combat is not pirating, IMHO.
Thoughts?
imho being a pirate means you kill or grief for money, ransom whenever you can get a good sum, etc., you live out of what lowsec gives you, and you go all the way to -10, gatecamping is pirate stuff if you do it for the money
what being a pirate isn't is being an ******* to people, killing or camping ratters/newbies/mission runners only for the killmails and killboard stats and having 10 alts pumping you isk so you can go do whatever, care free, this is like 90% of people that go around shouting "yarr" like it means something, or speak about "carebear tears" on forums, **** like that, bad manner
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ThrashPower
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.11.10 00:55:00 -
[9]
Pirate is anyone with a global criminal countdown or -5 security status or lower.
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Lord Zekk
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2010.11.10 02:59:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lord Zekk on 10/11/2010 03:03:05 The general consensus in eve is anyone that attacks a person in low security space (ie 0.1 to 0.4) space therefore receiving a security standings loss and a GCC (15 minute global criminal countdown) is a pirate.
Personally I disagree with that. I believe being a pirate more to do with the intent you PVP with. The above definition in my opinion would be definition of criminals and outlaws. One can be a criminal and outlaw for a variety of reasons, even pirates are criminals and outlaws.
If you do not have the required security standing to enter a high sec system, I believe the warning you receive is that "Criminal will not be tolerated" or something to that effect if I'm not mistaken.
So that brings us to what are pirates? Well pirates would be a subset of criminals/outlaws that attempt to derive their lively hood from/through illegal means, usually ransom. When that is not viable they will attempt to destroy their target and gather whatever loot they can find.
Pirating also has an aspect of roleplaying to it. The extent of roleplay differs from person to person. Sometimes it is even involuntary. I don't necessarily mean an eye patch and a parrot type roleplay. Since this is sci fi it's more a similarity in term of the mindset that the pirates from history and those of today have. Eye patches for pod pilots just don't make sense. The roleplay could be as simple as inviting the target to a "Save your ship" channel and asking them pay a ransom or full blown IC chat etc.
Obviously, low sec being the way it is I'm sure most pirates can't derive their sole income from ransoming and looting an require to supplement their income.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.10 07:08:00 -
[11]
A pirate is one who pvp's for profit as opposed to for km's or ****'s and giggles. Pirates ransom at every possible opportunity to maximize profit. Not all outlaws are pirates obviously since many just run around low sec as serial killers. A low sec serial killer is not a pirate. I've done both and find the serial killer play style more entertaining even if I do have to do some carebearing to support it.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Xorv
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Posted - 2010.11.10 09:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: King Rothgar A pirate is one who pvp's for profit as opposed to for km's or ****'s and giggles.
Yeah the for profit factor is key in my view. Which ironically would exclude many of those in Lowsec, as I believe a good portion of them fund their PvP adventures in lowsec by means other than PvP. Empire Wardecers, suicide gankers, can flippers and the like are the true pirates of EVE.
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KrustyKrab
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.10 09:57:00 -
[13]
Piracy is a lot of things in Eve. It really isn't the standard definition what most of us think it is in the real world. Since Eve is a sandbox, I think there can be many different types of 'pirates'.
King Rothgar kind of nails it on the head in my opinion. I always joke to my fellow pirates that we really aren't pirates, as for the most part we are serial killers. We sometimes ransom a pod if the ship it came from (that is now dust and loot) seems worthy...like a marauder or faction ship as it takes a decent chunk of isk to acquire such ships, so it is usually reasonable to believe that the pod pilot has the means to pay up since he had the means to get such an expensive bit of hardware to fly around in.
In the time I've been 'pirating' I have to say I've not made anywhere near the isk that I could being a carebear or being a nullbear. Sure, I might be doing it wrong, but I doubt it. We do get some nice loot, which is usually sold and the profits split between the members who were in the gang at the time of the kill. In that sense, we are pirates just as much as someone who constantly ransoms pods.
For the most part though, it isn't really about the isk (and yes, almost all of us have some carebear character(s) that funnel isk, supplies, etc to us...nothing wrong with this at all, it pays the pew-pew bills). For me, it isn't even about the km prostitutioning (prob can't say whoring without it being censored). It is about the adrenaline rush of the fight. The isk is far distant second.
Being flashy red isn't necessarily an indicator of being a full-on pirate either. We know lots of pirates that manage their sec status properly to be able to move around through highsec without faction navies trying to blast us the instant we decloak or undock.
I don't think there's a true definition of piracy in Eve. It is whatever you want it to be, which is why Eve is such a fun game. I tried highsec ninja looting and baiting but it just wasn't any fun, and that is just my opinion. We all play the game for our own reasons, and I don't believe there is any one right or wrong way to play other than to enjoy what you are doing.
Gatecamping is boring but nets decent isk from loot/ransoms here and there, so it is worth doing sometimes.
Killing ratters/missioners/random pilots is enjoyable, but not as fun as good gang-vs-gang or even 1v1 or 2v3 etc fights, but still worthy of enjoyment.
griefing noobs or mission runners isn't fun so I don't do that, but I respect that many others like to do it.
spying sounds boring but I imagine if you can end up in the Eve news for breaking apart a large alliance, hell, even a small one, then it was worth it for you to do right?
hauler/freighter ganking is pretty fun (unless you the one getting ganked with 2+ billion isk I suppose). It is pretty boring while wasting hours looking for the right target, but when you pop a hauler and scoop up a couple Machariel bpc's + a set of Virtue implants, a couple of T2 ships, and a pile of deadspace/faction modules, it made it worth it.
merc/highsec wardec stuff sounds kind of fun. Never did it, but it is on my list of things to try in Eve. I might hate it like I do baiting/griefing carebears, but won't know until I try it.
Basically just do what seems fun, and if you are all right with being -5 or lower, then that's great too ;) |
Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.11.10 14:10:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 10/11/2010 14:10:10 Anything that causes another player to fight you involentarily or in when in rage can be called pirating.
Examples: Can flipping, griefdecs, and lowsec pvp w/ carebears.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.10 15:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cearain on 10/11/2010 15:12:24
Originally by: Exploited Engineer
Originally by: Miko Nguyen What exactly is the definition of pirating.
Involuntary PvP for fun and/or profit?
Well this would cover any pvp where one side would like to gtfo. This can happen in Straight up faction warfare or major fights in null sec. Hencce anytime you ended up in an engagement when you were outgunned you were ôpiratedö? I think itÆs a bit broad.
I think itÆs piracy if a ransom is offered otherwise itÆs just pvp. You could say if one side has a pve fit and the other has a pvp fit. And I think a decent case could be made here. But then again if no ransom is offered itÆs likely just griefing or pvp.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 10/11/2010 14:10:10 Anything that causes another player to fight you involentarily or in when in rage can be called pirating.
Examples: Can flipping, griefdecs, and lowsec pvp w/ carebears.
Sad but true. The whole concept has moved from the "Yarr" of the pirate to the "Aargh" of the homicidal maniac.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:32:00 -
[17]
I'm sure the definitions are as many as the posters in the thread.
The most common ways to describe a pirate in EVE is likely...
1. Someone who is flashy red. 2. Someone who restricts his PvP mainly to lowsec. 3. Someone who (for RP reasons-) look to ransom you over killing you.
I think the best applicable definition is "someone who tries to make a living solely through PvP (without political agenda or outside funding)". That encompass most appropriate variations since nothing is mutually exclusive. You can pirate and still look for PvP in different locations, the term 'make a living' does not necessarily mean you are just out to make ISK from PvP, since it may involve PvP for fun, statistics or griefing for entertainment. Though it's often common that anyone who considers himself a pirate try to keep his resources afloat from PvP as much as possible.
If you join FW, take on contracts or join a SOV-warfare oriented alliance you are generally not considered a pirate though, even if PvP is your thing. That's because it involves outside funding, having a political agenda or in other ways relying on corporate effort to 'make your living'.
Obviously, nothing written here is absolute truth - it's just another illustration :).
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.11.10 21:55:00 -
[18]
there is no such thing as pirating. Pewing people is what everyone does who likes pvp.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.11.10 22:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Noisrevbus I'm sure the definitions are as many as the posters in the thread.
The most common ways to describe a pirate in EVE is likely...
1. Someone who is flashy red. 2. Someone who restricts his PvP mainly to lowsec. 3. Someone who (for RP reasons-) look to ransom you over killing you.
I think the best applicable definition is "someone who tries to make a living solely through PvP (without political agenda or outside funding)". That encompass most appropriate variations since nothing is mutually exclusive. You can pirate and still look for PvP in different locations, the term 'make a living' does not necessarily mean you are just out to make ISK from PvP, since it may involve PvP for fun, statistics or griefing for entertainment. Though it's often common that anyone who considers himself a pirate try to keep his resources afloat from PvP as much as possible.
If you join FW, take on contracts or join a SOV-warfare oriented alliance you are generally not considered a pirate though, even if PvP is your thing. That's because it involves outside funding, having a political agenda or in other ways relying on corporate effort to 'make your living'.
Obviously, nothing written here is absolute truth - it's just another illustration :).
The problem with the whole piracy thing in EVE, is everyone judges piracy by romantic novels and Hollywood movie standards. Hence the reason so many seem to think that you can't be a pirate if you don't earn 100% of your ISK from PVp or if you sometime PVP for fun rather than ransoms.
Simple fact is most pirates never ransomed ****. They killed the crews of the ships they captured or sold them off to slavery. There was no "oh we will let you go if you pay a ransom".
There was no e-honor they were cold cut killers and did anything from ransack coastal towns and selling kids to slavery to killing just to kill.
In short they killed a lot and blew up **** then looted what ever was left over.. The last thing they were gonna do was sit around 6 months with a hostage waiting for a ransom or worst yet a trap.
It's really only a modern invention with today's fast transfer of money and easy communication that pirates such as the ones off the coast of Somalia are doing ransoms.
Personally, I typically offer ransoms to expensive ships or noobs/ships that will likely not be a challenging fight. I play this game for fun, not to make PVP my ISK grind and if every PVP opportunity turned into a ransom for ISK, it would be come boring very fast.
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Kuan Yida
Minmatar Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:41:00 -
[20]
I define piracy as PvP where one side (at least to all appearances) had no interest in PvP, when initiated against neutral targets. Neutral gets tricky, but generally if you are operating within the constraints of some reasonably strict Rules of Engagement, or are a carebear trying to avoid PvP, anyone who attacks you without cause can be considered a pirate.
As a lifelong low-sec anti-pirate, we defined valid pirate targets as:
1) Any unknown pilot reliably witnessed initiating an attack on a neutral or carebear. This happily make them red and flashy 2) Any unknown criminally flagged pilot (sec status < -5) 3) Any member of an alliance with members who have been witnessed pirating and therefore the entire alliance was set to negative standings
These were and are our rules of engagement--pretty much NRDS, with Red being applied only to known pirate alliances, corps, and individuals in NPC corps. Obviously this can be simplistic and there are always exceptions, but these are my corps' strictures. Ironically, these rules when applied in low sec can also make an anti-pirate quickly lose sec status, making him appear quite piratical himself.
http://kuanyida.tumblr.com/ |
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Deen Wispa
Gallente GHF Corperation
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Posted - 2010.11.11 03:00:00 -
[21]
Now this, THIS is a good example of how to profit from piracy. I give kudos to The Tuskers from profitting the concept. Few pirate corps can do this.
By the way, do pirate corps really need to declare wars on other corps? With it being lowsec, I figure there is no need? -----------------
GHF- Looking for fun players in industry and PVP |
Jaxley
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.11.11 09:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deen Wispa By the way, do pirate corps really need to declare wars on other corps? With it being lowsec, I figure there is no need?
First, thanks for the advertisement.
The benefit of declaring war on a corp with lots of non-flashies would be that the pirates could engage them at gates and stations without being shot at by sentry guns.
Can't think of any instance where we ourselves would have felt the need for a war dec, though. In addition, it's always hilarious to see other corps declaring war on us.
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Lord Zekk
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2010.11.11 11:54:00 -
[23]
The Tuskers are one of the finest pirate corps out there. And if I'm not mistaken there hasn't been a single incident where a Tusker has dishonoured a ransom.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.11 14:19:00 -
[24]
Pirating is the acquisition of someone else's ship or ship contents without the permission of the ship owner. It generally involves the destruction of the ship and the loot-aging of the ships contents again without the permission of the owner of the ship.
Pirating is generally not done by offering candy or other sweets as an incentive to take off ones underpants. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.11.11 16:38:00 -
[25]
a true pilot ransoms, and then kills, then ransoms the pod, and kills again. Leave no one alive.
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Lady Thanatos
Nomadic Shadows
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:34:00 -
[26]
I know I am one of the few (there are others), that makes a profit and aims at making a profit every time I pirate. I give nearly every victim a chance to save their pod OR ship with some sort of isk transaction or in some cases I will allow their pod to be freed if they eject from their ship (You would be surprised at the number of ships I have brought in through this method).
There are PVP'ers, and there are pirates. Pirates are a dieing breed, few ransom anymore, and even fewer honor it. Honoring the ransom is each players choice. However, I honor mine (more chance for repeat business).
Those that enter low sec and 'pirate' just to PVP have an alt supporting their PVP habits, or will only be in low-sec for a short period of time.
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Darrk Darkness
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Posted - 2010.11.11 17:50:00 -
[27]
If were all going to be redunant here... i might as well join in.
Lemme pirate while you pirate so we can pirate while he gets pirated dawg.
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Roosterton
Unlawful Combatants
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Posted - 2010.11.11 18:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Darrk Darkness If were all going to be redunant here... i might as well join in.
Lemme pirate while you pirate so we can pirate while he gets pirated dawg.
You ****ed up that meme.
Sup dawg, I heard you like pirating so we put a pirate in your system so you can be ransomed while you get ganked. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Rvlxnx
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:23:00 -
[29]
Ye True enough piracy, privateers and the like are all mentioned here in "A" PVP sense.
The ones which are NOT mentioned are the ones who will PVP, but are Contraband runners in the PVE/PVP sense.
Though Remember PVP does not always mean fighting and dying, there are a few forms of PVP that initially do not involve such "activities".
So Props to ye Pirates/Privateers who PVP/PVE in the background under the Radar beyond seeing eyes. HAVE FUN, GOOD LUCK, FLY WELL, FLY SAFE! |
Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2010.11.14 04:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider a true pilot ransoms, and then kills, then ransoms the pod, and kills again. Leave no one alive.
And the few like this are the reason most people avoid low sec.
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