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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:39:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Sertan Deras Edited by: Sertan Deras on 10/11/2010 16:01:00 CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.
Awww, is didums scared of the big bad sansha?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 11:00:00 -
[2]
Originally by: TeaDaze
As I've said already it will provide potential PvP flashpoints where people go to gank those running the site, but that is to the exclusion of anything else in that system. Soundwave says he dislikes an opt out system, but that is precisely the option on offer here. Get on the Incursion train or GTFO.
Whilst that might be true, up to a point, EVE has always had 'environmental' effects be they roid spawn rates and composition or NPCs on gates. Its simply that those environmental effects have always been present so they become part of the background noise and we barely notice them as being a constraint.
You can suffer the effects of an Incursion, just as you can suffer the effects of only low end ores in high sec so it's not quite the black and white picture you're implying.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 13:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Cailais Whilst that might be true, up to a point, EVE has always had 'environmental' effects be they roid spawn rates and composition or NPCs on gates. Its simply that those environmental effects have always been present so they become part of the background noise and we barely notice them as being a constraint.
I agree with you to a point, but in those examples the environmental effects are totally isolated from each other.
The roid spawn rate has no impact on the NPC gate presence. The number of missions being run has no direct impact on the amount of belt rats. The number of NPC spawns has no impact on logistics etc.
In the Incursion mechanism the effects apply to everything in system no matter what players are doing.
Originally by: Cailais You can suffer the effects of an Incursion, just as you can suffer the effects of only low end ores in high sec so it's not quite the black and white picture you're implying.
In reality you can't suffer the effects as described because they are all encompassing. You have the illusion of choice but it isn't practical. E.g. you could continue to do normal PvE content, but with DPS/Tank nerfs and war tax what is the point? There is added risk for reduced reward, isn't that the wrong way round?
Your one and only real choice if you don't have a fleet available to clear the incursion is to "opt out" by just leaving the system (though to some that might not be an option in which case they'll logoff and do something else).
You make some valid points - but fundamentally you seem to be saying that the pressure to flee an invaded system is a inherently "bad thing" but I'm not convinced that's the case. Your 'one and only real choice' is only applicable if the player refuses to accept that fate, deus ex machina, (however you wish to describe it) has dealt him or her a bad hand.
Should the universe really be a wholly static entity whose topography is only altered by players? After all our own 'RL universe' is subject to a myriad of changes that aren't man made but occur naturally. Those environmental changes create 'cause and effect' conditions which, whilst not always welcome to the individual typically move a system from a state of stasis and into one of flux.
EVE has become surprisingly predictable not least because players can predict with pretty high levels of confidence the short term future as there are relatively few external fluctuations (with the notable exception of patches). Every now and again I think it is good that a system receives a mild shock to instigate change. We may not like change, but it is necessary.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 13:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Typhado3
Quote: You'll get quest text that says "I'm being attacked by these horrible things", it's not actually happening, in the game world these horrible censored are standing around in a field and you get a quest to kill 10 censored. We don't think thats OK. You see what's happening, you see censored running through the trading post knocking the walls down burning and killing the merchants.
Well sounds like the sansha are actually moving around now going through the belts and gates and they are actually having an effect on the locals..... the problem is it isn't direct the sansha are still sitting around in belts and deadspace just waiting to die, just as all of our rats have been since as long as I can remember. As a group this is a huge step up for the sansha's but as individual rats they are still the same as they have always been. Having rats in eve actually do something rather than orbit their way around belts is one thing we really, really need to see.
I think there are at least some comparisons with Guild Wars 2's approach to PVE content although I believe WAR introduced the concept first - at least on a basic level. I think what we're seeing is a selection of MMO devs attempting to move away from the traditional "!" quest giver of WOW (and countless emulators) to something like dynamic content.
Id agree that CCPs approach could have a little more dynamism applied, but it's not a bad start. Where I think CCP have missed a trick is that GW2 espouses non-grouped collaborative play (i.e the individual happens across an event and then is joined by other to form an impromptu 'group') where as the current Incarna mechanics seem to almost require a group from the get go - and dont scale up as more people pile into the event.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 14:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: TeaDaze
A static universe is dull yes. The problem is that this doesn't actually change anything. It is as Trebor puts it a temporary rainstorm which will eventually pass leaving no changes.
But it will leave changes if, as you suggest, players will flee or migrate from (or too) invaded systems. Theoretically we could quite easily see player migrations, refugees for want of another term - from the invaded areas and that in itself could have lasting and long reaching ramifications. Large scale migrations of players will cause player densities to increase / reduce in various areas which is likely to produce frictions (such as the market) perhaps resulting in more player collaboration, perhaps in conflict.
I see your point that the "stick" approach feels unwarranted but without that stick you wouldn't have that migratory pressure being applied. Perhaps we'll see players migrate to nullsec, or w-space from empire: its very hard to tell until we see the frequency and depth of the invasions. We can probably be assured that it will cause trauma in localised markets and those effects are very often further reaching than we might expect.
Also I think a lot of players have failed to appreciate the impact the incursions could have on FW space. These areas might well see FW forces diverted from 'FW' to clearing the Sansha - or new arrivals seeking to do the self same thing.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 15:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shandir
Originally by: TeaDaze A static universe is dull yes. The problem is that this doesn't actually change anything. It is as Trebor puts it a temporary rainstorm which will eventually pass leaving no changes.
Only players can actually change the ownership of systems etc, this incursion mechanism just interferes with it a bit.
I wholely agree with the point I think you're making here - they're not doing enough in some areas. I would like to see 0.0 Sov not only fought by player alliances, but also pirate factions appearing to mess things up and try to take Sov. *That* would rock the boat a bit, eh? Maybe if this expansion is good, it will be a step in that direction. Bring FW into it, and it could be a whole coherent system. Player Alliances vs Pirate Factions vs Empire Factions. Wouldn't that be awesome?
It could be awesome, but CCP would be breaking down the buffer zones and essentially would need to enable any entity (player, empire, npc pirate faction) to claim a system. Naturally the player null sec Alliances have the weight of numbers and most likely would 'win' this contest meaning they would gain dominion over vast swathes of not only null sec space, but low sec aswell. The resulting war would be pretty epic but it would reach a conclusion and then that would be then defacto end of both the incursion and fw features. The end result would be stagnation.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.11 22:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: katrina peebles if ur in 0.0 80% if not more are there solely to pvp
lol. yeah riiiight.
The incursions will hardly effect those players - so whats the drama?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hidden Snake
Gents, I did game designer/producer for nearly 11 years and I am fully aware from where this **** blows.
Where does it come from then? It seems broadly supported judging from the comments here.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.13 01:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Syekuda will incursion sites or the sansha attack happen on stations or gates ?
Also when you say only in low sec, do you mean only in low-sec and 0.0 or just low-sec ?
Currently on SISI where you originally had normal npc rats, these are replaced by tougher 'sansha' rats - so yes on the star gates: but they don't appear to scramble targets. The incursion sites are reached through acceleration gates and these contain larger groups of sansha - these use a lot of E war (scrams, webs, neuts, ecm) and are really not suitable targets for solo ships.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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