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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nyphur on 10/11/2010 16:15:41 Edited by: Nyphur on 10/11/2010 16:15:08
Originally by: Karl Axelman Liking the new content, but would like some clarification ...
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:
+ Reduction of all shield/armor resistances + Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage + Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system + Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties
Say I'm running a mission when an Incursion event strikes, will I have to clear the incursion site to return my ship to full power to be able to finish the mission?
This is incredibly important. If the effect is system-wide, it'll sway the outcome of PvP and screw up people's mission-running or ratting.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nyphur on 10/11/2010 16:16:47
Originally by: Jack bubu
Originally by: Nyphur This is incredibly important. If the effect is system-wide, it'll sway the outcome of PvP and screw up people's mission-running or ratting.
wich is the whole point of it?
It's definitely intended as far as mission-running and ratting are concerned, and it could be very interesting. But is an incursion in progress is going to mess with PvP? Or are damage and resists dropped by a comparable amount to retain balance?
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Daedalus II However if that being the case one can ask oneself, why put effort into an armor and firepower-reducing mechanism to begin with? If all the NPCs are changed to sansha NPCs and all PvP are reduced equally on damage and defence, then why not keep the normal damage and defence and instead give the sancha NPCs more HP and firepower? It's only between players and NPCs (who are all sansha anyway) it would matter!
That's exactly my point. Either the system-wide effect changes the attack-and-defence balance of ships (which will mess with PvP going on in the system) or it doesn't need to exist.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 16:35:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tamahra it sounds like we can shooty each other in incursion sites, even in high sec:
Quote:
That means you will be totally free to engage each other at will in circumstances that would normally allow it, or to tackle an incursion as you see fit. Be careful however, as NPCs do not know discrimination: they most likely will change targets to any newcomers, so plunder these sites for juicy player targets at your own risk.
You missed the "in circumstances that would normally allow it" part.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nyphur on 10/11/2010 17:11:45
You want to interrupt people's current activity while the incursion is in progress, and the more I think about that idea the more I warm to it. It sounds great! Much more interesting than systems being static with not much ever going on. I'd love to see more stuff like this! What I have a problem with is the method used to disrupt people's activity. The system-wide effect has the following consequences for normal gameplay:
1) Reduction of all shield/armor resistances 2) Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage 3) Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system 4) Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties
#4 will reduce income from missions and ratting by 50% while an incursion is in progress, encouraging pilots to tackle the scenario or hide out until it's over. This is a good idea.
#3 prevents pilots from bringing a fleet of capships into an incursion constellation, which is good for pilots wanting to take part in lowsec as it helps stop the nullsec alliances from pirating the incursion areas. It also gives the added boost that capitals already in the system can be used, encouraging people to stake a claim to their lowsec home and defend it. These are all good things, and I can see it working out quite well.
#1 and #2 might discourage pilots with sense from their everyday activities. What it will definitely do is kill oblivious mission-runners, which as I understand it make up a not-so-insubstantial portion of the playerbase. These are people who bring only enough tank to handle a mission. Although they'll get a warning that an incursion is about to happen, you can bet there will be some tears from mission-runners when this happens. Since the effect is balanced to ensure PvP remains unchanged, and the local belt rats are replaced with new Sansha NPCs during an incursion, the only difference between buffing the Sansha NPCs and penalising players is that it affects mission-runners and explorers. Literally, there are no other side-effects of the resistance and damage penalties.
So why not use a more elegant solution for discouraging or stopping mission-running during an incursion? If the belt NPCs flee during an incursion, why not do something similar for missions? Maybe despawn mission complexes at the start of an incursion and prevent new ones from spawning until after it? Or maybe just block warps to missions during the incursion? Are these ideas not technically feasible for some reason? I understand that drone and navy NPCs mean that the bounty penalty isn't enough to discourage mission-runners. But surely there's a more elegant and effective way to discourage them than putting them at significant risk of death.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mykael Skychild So we can SBU and TCU a system while other people are handling the Incursion because they won't be able to do much to us?
No, he said that resists and damage are reduced by the same amount to prevent exactly this from happening.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mykael Skychild
Quote: This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.
This means that fleets will have their damage nerfed. All we have to do is take some haulers in, drop some SBUs and the (former) owners of that system will not be able to jump caps in to destroy the SBUs or TCU, and they will do anemic damage against them with their subcap fleet.
Re-bolded the important part.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Faolan Fortune Looks really awesome, but nothing at all for Nation supporters except I guess cheaper Sansha ships.
Still, will be cool to see
Form a fleet and kill the players in a lowsec Sansha incursion area. Granted, the mindless Nation soldiers will probably still shoot you. But you can still support them in lowsec and nullsec.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 17:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron I think the point of Skychild was, that a SBU has the same EHP as before the incursion, but the fleet trying to destroy it has less DPS (because of damage nerf while incursion and no caps).
Edit: However, if nothing bad happens, SBU armor and shield resistances should also be affected by system affects.
As you just pointed out, it depends how much an SBU's EHP is affected by resists. Any structure with HP that has 0 resists won't be affected, but anything with resists should be. If they're using the current system-wide effect mechanic though, I'd be wary about that because starbases in wormholes AREN'T affected by resist-modifying system-wide effects.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 19:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Effects 1 e 2 change during the invasion. I the capsuleer side is winning and destroy Sansha structures they are is reduced. So boosting basic Sansha stats (as you suggested before) or simply removing missions would not have the same effect.
Now THAT is interesting, and definitely a fact left out of the devblog. Remember, however, that Sleeper NPCs in wormholes are buffed and penalised by the system-wide benefits. So Sansha ships will be affected too, meaning that as the effect is reduced players will see absolutely no benefit when fighting Sanshas. At the same time as player damage and resists go up, Sansha damage and resists rise to match.
If the system has been modified to NOT include Sanshas in the penalising effect, then surely it could be potentially be implemented in reverse -- with a system-wide effect that only buffs Sanshas?
Originally by: Venkul Mul
You should notice too that forcefully stopping missions will have a some unwanted secondary effect: 1) loss of standing for failed missions 2) loss of the isk given to the agent as a security for some mission; 3) if the effect is applied as soon as you enter one of the invaded system you could lose a mission simply because your route pass through a invaded system.
#3 isn't true because the solution I suggested (making it impossible to warp to the mission) doesn't affect pilots passing through an invaded system on the way to a mission in a non-invaded one.
#1 and #2 are valid points. But remember that if taking new missions were disabled during the event, at most mission-runners would be unable to complete a currently active mission that they hadn't yet warped to. This reduces the scope of the problem significantly. The remaining few pilots affected can have their issue resolved by removing penalties for failing missions during an incursion or adding a new agent mission option "I can't complete this mission due to the Sansha invasion" with no penalty.
I'd say these problems are much more manageable than all mission-runners being able to accept missions that will probably kill them.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 19:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bagehi I don't think you understand how this works. Dropping these things is fairly easy with a fairly small cloaky fleet. Blowing them up without capitals is a huge chore (especially with the dps nerfed). Decreasing resistances doesn't matter too much when you are talking about something without resists and 10m HP to chew through.
Thanks, that's the part I was missing. If they really do have zero resists then a damage penalty makes them hard to pew pew with a sub-capital fleet, and cyno jamming removes caps. That sounds like a problem, but also an incentive for the local alliance to clear out the incursion ASAP. Not sure whether this a good thing or a bad thing yet, but I'm leaning toward good.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 19:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana If people ignore the warnings of an impeding invasion they will simply die.
That's exactly the point I'm making. It's far more problematic for mission-runners who don't understand what an incursion is to die inexplicably than it is for them to get a popup saying "You can't take this mission during a Sansha incursion". If someone logs in and runs a mission without noticing there's an invasion going on, should they really be at significant risk of being killed?
Of course this all assumes that mission NPCs are not affected by the penalties too. Because if they were, the entire situation is ludicrous because every potential interaction just has half tank and dps, rendering the penalty meaningless unless you like looking at big numbers instead of smaller numbers.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.10 20:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Doctero
Originally by: WizWaz Bigger fleet == gets reward?
/me waits for goonswarm to bring a 1000 man blob to every incursion to auto-hijack the loot....
Wrong:
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.
The fleet with the RIGHT SIZE that does the best job wins the cake.
Are you sure it's not the case that the largest fleet gets the cake, but the size of the cake is determined by the size of that largest fleet? That would be a genuine concern. As is the potential for people to almost complete a site and then kick out all but 20 members of their fleet to get maximum rewards. They're important questions to ask.
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