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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:32:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 12/11/2010 08:33:15 this is a hidden gallentean drones nerf ? or just the new ewow raid party copy?
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:38:00 -
[422]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/11/2010 08:43:15 Man at first I was all happy about this. Then I find out I have to fleet up and only the best fleet gets payed. After you fleet a few times on the fly with random mission runners. Some shields some armor few with reps or skills for them. Lucky that even if you dont lose your ship by some act of god. You will probly not get crap becouse pros will show up and get the isk/lp's. I would happly go and fight and get bountys or tags help out what have you but not now. Now I and alot of other high sec casul gamers will just run for the closest best mission station to us if we can even get pass the gate camps. If I cant even get pass the gate camps to go were ever the crap expation is not fracking up the fun for me. Well there realy will not be any point in playing any more for me. Ether that or I have to set up a jump clone and BS at all the useable high sec level 4 mission systems. Good thing I already have the skills/rep/isk to set that up. Good luck to the new guy just starting out there going to get ****ed.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:48:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 12/11/2010 08:47:45 this is a hidden gallentean drones nerf ? or just the new ewow raid party copy?
Oh i forgot the ISK nerf. :D
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:02:00 -
[424]
I'm guessing off the top of my head here but there will be somewhere around 250 constellations in the game? If that is anywhere near accurate then surely you are only likely to be hit with an incursion once a year? If you are so incredibly carebear to be still worried about this then just position a jump clone at an agent/asteroid field in a neighbouring constellation and avoid the shenanigans altogether for the duration.
Personally I think it's an interesting concept. Hopefully one thought out slightly more deeply than PI however. -----
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth. |
Gabriel Blade
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:07:00 -
[425]
Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 12/11/2010 13:09:08 Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 12/11/2010 13:08:43 Edited by: Gabriel Blade on 12/11/2010 13:08:03 I agree with TeaDaze. The fact that there is a stick as well as a carrot basically says "nobody would eat our carrot without the stick". This is a game, nobody plays games to get hit by sticks, they play to eat carrots.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Soundwave ThatÆs EVE, itÆs not always a very nice place.
The point I (and other people) object to is that EVE is not a very nice place because of other players.
See the difference here?
Merlin's quote cuts to the heart of the matter. Soundwave is right that one of the things that makes EVE great is that it's a harsh unforgiving environment. However, what makes that harshness interesting and makes EVE stand out from other games is that that harshness comes from other players who's strategies are emergent. Scripted content like this is available in any half decent MMO. I'm sure the AI will be tough and the encounters hard, but at it's core it's static.
If you really wanted to do this "EVE" style you would set up a system where the players do the disruption for the Sansha nation and other players could oppose them.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:10:00 -
[426]
Originally by: MrSharku What I don't see is anything about those of us who don't want to participate in this. I like to run the missions and go mining. I'm just not interested in big battles and events where I'm REQUIRED to have a number of other people just to play.
Thanks CCP for giving thought to ALL the different types of players you have here. I DO hope you've left at least a small area for those of us who don't care to participate fleet type operations. If not, I know of at least 5 accounts that will be closed, and that's just my brother's & mine. I wonder how many others are also thinking the same thing!
/sigh I don't believe that CCP are removing any of the stuff you enjoy doing. Why then you would consider cancelling because something new is being added which will have minimal affect on you personally is just plain daft. Just contract your stuff over to me when you go, I might be able to get scrap value on some of the modules at least. -----
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth. |
Hidden Snake
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds Caldari Defence Initiative
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:21:00 -
[427]
oh ... looked at me i am a EVE producer and I have an idea. We will not fix the **** we have with pvp, we will rather try to make it WoW in space and disballance the **** with some massive events all across the globe, which nobody properly tested, but on paper it looks cool, does it look cool right? It has to, because I am producer, right?
Snake on serious note:
Gents, I did game designer/producer for nearly 11 years and I am fully aware from where this **** blows. So message to head of this mess - divide ur resources and give 40% only to inovations like this, but put 80% testers to test them. WE ARE RECRUITING!
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:41:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Hidden Snake
Gents, I did game designer/producer for nearly 11 years and I am fully aware from where this **** blows.
Where does it come from then? It seems broadly supported judging from the comments here.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.12 14:00:00 -
[429]
He, like the design and what it adds to the game.
And as Incursions will have little to no direct effect on any of the occupations I frequently do (research, manufacturing, trade, logistics, starbase operations, planetary operations, booster production, exploration and documentation) I have absolutely no fear of being "trapped" in a system.
Besides, I live out of a freighter.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.12 15:33:00 -
[430]
Incursion come in Januar and just a small pre-patch will come in November. LOL
CCP what you doing ?
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Muul Udonii
Minmatar THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:16:00 -
[431]
Two days it took me to read this thread. I can see a couple of interesting thing; firstly that people seem to be complaining a little too much about it, but secondly that one of the complaints has some serious merit:
The reward.
Until now if you had 15 mins you could log in, warp to an anomaly, shoot battleships for 15 mins and earn a few million ISK.
Now you have to log in, form a fleet, complete multiple encounters in multiple solar systems, and at the end of it if you're not in the correct sized fleet (will you know this in advance?)not in the fleet doing the most DPS (will you know this in advance) and not in the correct type of ship (if you lose your ship doing this you earn nothing).
And then the SC might drop a BPC that one person in the fleet will get (or a ninja.
The benefit really doesn't seem to be there unless you are already in a group of the correct size and have a few hours to spare to kill everything.
Why not give LP bounties for killing anything; with a bigger bonus if you do it in a fleet with the correct numbers of ships?
It sounds like it would be a good idea for our alliance to get a huge fleet, blob the crap out of the incursion, kill al neutrals in the system and get the BPC. I don't think the people that get the BPCs will care too much about the reward unless it's a lot higher than 25 mil for a few hours work.
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Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.11.12 16:34:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Muul Udonii Two days it took me to read this thread. I can see a couple of interesting thing; firstly that people seem to be complaining a little too much about it, but secondly that one of the complaints has some serious merit:
The reward.
Until now if you had 15 mins you could log in, warp to an anomaly, shoot battleships for 15 mins and earn a few million ISK.
Now you have to log in, form a fleet, complete multiple encounters in multiple solar systems, and at the end of it if you're not in the correct sized fleet (will you know this in advance?)not in the fleet doing the most DPS (will you know this in advance) and not in the correct type of ship (if you lose your ship doing this you earn nothing).
This is not how I read it at all.... My interpretation: There will be 3 sizes of incursion "anomalies", the wtfpwnbbq fleets will naturally go for the largest, leaving the mediums and smalls for the runner-up fleets. Rewards are given for each anomaly, not the whole incursion. So unless your fleet can't be the top damage-dealer in one of several small anomalies meant for 5-6 people you get nothing. Fair enough to me.
Also to the whiners.. really? The sky is falling that hard? You sound like you expect there to be an active incursion in 50% of eve at any given time. The odds of incursions distrubing any given system for more than the odd week every year seems very low to me, and if you can't handle that HTFU.
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:38:00 -
[433]
Well, mission runners will continue to run mission wile somme guys run for some carrots.
For pirates it's paradise on EVE, large fleets with large stuff to easy gank/win wile those ones get shot by npc's, sounds good.
You'll see this forum full of complainings, tears, threats, insults and you know what?
Who cares?
-mabe it could be mutch more interesting to find good ideas to interest new players leaving high sec and join low sec corps, and most important, that those players dont leave the game after a few months tired of gankers of wallet vampire corps, scammers and everything usefull to make them run away (from the game)because training system already do it enough imo.
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Khalia Nestune
Honorless Internet Jerks
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Posted - 2010.11.12 17:42:00 -
[434]
0.0 carebear tears... the best tears.
All those whining about your sandbox:
It's not only your sandbox. We all play in it. You can't build new missions. You can't build new NPCs. You can't build new game features. You can't add to the sandbox, all you can do is play in it.
If you're so upset over the evil Sansha being *gasp* unpredictable and evil, then please quit. Other players will gladly take over your space.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.12 19:35:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Pookie McPook I'm guessing off the top of my head here but there will be somewhere around 250 constellations in the game? If that is anywhere near accurate then surely you are only likely to be hit with an incursion once a year? If you are so incredibly carebear to be still worried about this then just position a jump clone at an agent/asteroid field in a neighbouring constellation and avoid the shenanigans altogether for the duration.
Personally I think it's an interesting concept. Hopefully one thought out slightly more deeply than PI however.
There are 65 regions in EVE (I am using Ombrey maps, so the number can be outdated).
If 1 constellation in each region is hit it mean that 65 constellations are invaded at the same time and it is almost guaranteed you are influenced in some way.
If the number of concomitant invasions is as low a 5 at the same time you still get 5 locations lasting 2-3 days before being removed. In a year that mean about 150*5=750 constellations will be hit, enough constellations to hit every spot on the map about 3 times (as a average, averages being what they are it mean between 0 and 9 times easily).
As a guess I would say that the most probable number is about 10 concomitant invasions (that way it should get about 3 locations in empire and another 7 in 0.0). That will mean that as an average the location where you will live will be invaded every 2 months.
Bearable but not without effects.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.12 19:40:00 -
[436]
Originally by: Khalia Nestune 0.0 carebear tears... the best tears.
All those whining about your sandbox:
It's not only your sandbox. We all play in it. You can't build new missions. You can't build new NPCs. You can't build new game features. You can't add to the sandbox, all you can do is play in it.
If you're so upset over the evil Sansha being *gasp* unpredictable and evil, then please quit. Other players will gladly take over your space.
Actually, pirate tears best tears. Carebear tears are a dime a dozen.
When I read "IÆm taking a indefinite break from Eve to purse other games and some real-life challenges." or "IÆm on the verge of burnout in Eve. Some of the activities ... have become so commonplace that I feel like much less of an innovator when IÆm doing them." I hear people who are dissatisfied with the sandbox.
I want this game to keep getting better and to let CCP know ahead of time when they're taking the game in the wrong direction. You just want to quit periodically and then come back periodically while the game wallows in mediocrity. To each his own.
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Syekuda
Valor Inc. Valor Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.12 20:34:00 -
[437]
will incursion sites or the sansha attack happen on stations or gates ?
Also when you say only in low sec, do you mean only in low-sec and 0.0 or just low-sec ?
--------------------------------------------------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.12 22:19:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Syekuda will incursion sites or the sansha attack happen on stations or gates ?
Also when you say only in low sec, do you mean only in low-sec and 0.0 or just low-sec ?
well they specified nullsec in the blog, so when they say lowsec only I'm pretty sure they mean 0.4 - 0.1 only.
On the test server there are rats at all the gates, but the location is nullsec so its hard to say if they will be on the gates in hisec. Also these aren't your average rats on the gate, so don't let their familiar red cross icons fool you. The gatecamp I ran into was 2 frigs, 2 cruisers and 1 BS or something like that. capped out my loki in give or take 20 seconds and had me jammed. Also they are very responsive when it comes to targeting. I doubt you could warp off in a BS without being targeted.
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Cailais
Amarr Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2010.11.13 01:19:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Syekuda will incursion sites or the sansha attack happen on stations or gates ?
Also when you say only in low sec, do you mean only in low-sec and 0.0 or just low-sec ?
Currently on SISI where you originally had normal npc rats, these are replaced by tougher 'sansha' rats - so yes on the star gates: but they don't appear to scramble targets. The incursion sites are reached through acceleration gates and these contain larger groups of sansha - these use a lot of E war (scrams, webs, neuts, ecm) and are really not suitable targets for solo ships.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Matrixinversion
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Posted - 2010.11.13 06:51:00 -
[440]
Originally by: MIRKINZ
WHY NO DROPS IN NULL SEC!
+1
making the biggest possible reward droping only in the not biggest possible hostile enviroment is stupid.
making all isk/lp rewards auto-distributed among the the most effective fleet, but making the biggest rewards drops, everyone can sneaky grab is stupid.
fail - try again - sry ccp
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.13 07:42:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Dav Varan
The EPIC Justice is EPIC
For 6 years PvPers have been forcing PvEers into unwanted PvP.
Now PvE it seems is forcing PvPers into unwanted PvE.
Nice to see all the PvPers tears "At the thought at having to do PvE against there will".
This dev blog should have been entitled The carebears strike back.
LMFAO!!!!! Damn man you about made me **** my pod man.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.13 08:05:00 -
[442]
Ya I think the bigest problem is the rewards system. It's still going to pay better to move to the next closest mission system and keep running level 4's. And that will mean fewer avalibe good mission hubs. That will probly lead to even bigger blobier mission systems again. But even that is better then no reward that Incursion will be passing out to most people.
At first there will be people just trying out the new content. Some people will try for low sec but give up after a short spell were after words they facepalm themselfs going I knew better.
Low sec small gank pvp will get there arses handed to them by the powerblocks that want the new cool Cap ships.
And last but not least. Sasha 0.0 space will probly become the new low sec. There fraction ships will get cheap and no Incursions will make it the new natural home for small gank pvp groups.
At least thats what I am seeing. Can anyone tell me I am wrong?
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.13 08:20:00 -
[443]
Hay can we get you guys to take another look at level 5's. After you release Incurstion. The power blocks will take over low sec to get there new Cap ships bpc's you placed there. There probly not going to care about doing level 5's. They did not bother with them before and there only going to go there now for the Cap bpc's. So there realy going to be about worthless in low sec after the next expantion.
Pluse I as a high sec carebear already know it's going to pay more to move to the next level 4 agent then bother with Incurstions. But if were talking about level 5's. Now it's worth my time and effort to remove the Incurstion.
It's just an ideal I thought I would just though out there.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.13 11:47:00 -
[444]
Edited by: Joss56 on 13/11/2010 11:48:24
Quote: The EPIC Justice is EPIC
For 6 years PvPers have been forcing PvEers into unwanted PvP.
Now PvE it seems is forcing PvPers into unwanted PvE.
Nice to see all the PvPers tears "At the thought at having to do PvE against there will".
This dev blog should have been entitled The carebears strike back.
LMFAO!!!!! Damn man you about made me **** my pod man.
Thank you for this clarification, indeed pvp'ers force pve guys insted of "interest" them on doing pvp, it's quite different.
About pve'ers that force pvp'ers doing pve: Well this is not the truth and if you just take some time to read all the thread you'll understand it.
Nobody asks you to fly with people that you don't know, nobody asks you to take your "iskies" ship and take the risk to be blown by somme pirates or low sec pvpe'ers, nobody asks you to join some fleet spent your time killing IA for "nothing" reward because fleet "x" has the gratest dmg rate. Nobody asks you neither to join some fleet kill that *s___t" of IA and see a single guy take/ninja (choose the one you want)that "ubber" bpc.
Being a good pvp boy you should be happy to have more targets on your overview with your "blob" pally's, wy so many tears? Being an "carebear" atm, i can say that i will not bother with that, wy should i? -what changes that makes in the fact that i cant run lvl5 in high sec or the fact that i will not take the risk of loosing my iskies ship in low sec? -i'll continue my missions with my "iskies" ship and the single impact that those large fleets can have on my game is: that pirates and ninjas of all kind will search them, track them, blow them with cheap ships helped by IA already shooting your targets.
Well mabe , and sure, i'm wrong. But i realy think this "invasion" is not for you/we/me commun player but for all large alliances that have the power to protect theyr mission runners that will do it only to get that BPC and somme more reprocess. By the way, those large alliances can also contract mission runners to do that and offer them protection against pirates and blobbers, you give them the bpc and runners get faction love items...mabe, or not.
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Manssell
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Posted - 2010.11.13 17:41:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Manssell on 13/11/2010 17:42:36 At first I was really excited about this, but after reading more... not so much. I guess my concerns are what does this do to the small 1-4 man corps? At first I thought this would be a great way to hop into some group PVE for the small guys, but it seems CCP needs to address how these fleets actually get formed? Are these going to be open fleets anyone can join? It doesn't appear so. What incentive does the big corps have then to let the small guys join in? Are we just supposed to beg in local for someone to let us fleet up, which in Eve is like a group of teen agers hitchhiking on a hunted route 666 at night?
I do want to like this CCP, but it really seems the small corps are going to get hosed on this one. I hope not, but I don't see any game mechanics that encourage the big corps to fleet up with them (other than to kill them), and the small corps will still get all the penalties.
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Dasani Waters
Involuntary Trepanation
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Posted - 2010.11.13 23:12:00 -
[446]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Active incursions will bring a variety of disruptive changes that will greatly impact player activities
TL;DR: The game purposely disrupting player activity is a contradiction to the spirit of EVE.
Up until now, absolutely nothing in EVE was forced upon a player by the game itself. Any mechanism that disrupted player activity, such as war declarations, was initiated by players, not npcs. This is an integral policy as it maintains a level playing field for all players, and gives players as much freedom as possible to pursue their own goals. Given what was stated in the devblog, Incursions only serves to decrease that freedom and take away the level playing field, rather than enhance it like every other feature up to this point.
In player to player interactions, it is absolutely PARAMOUNT that everyone plays in a fair environment. One only has to look at the t20 incident to see how players react when one group has even a small, but artificial advantage over others. While incursions may not give any advantages, its cynojamming effect has the potential to foist a small, but artificial disadvantage onto an alliance, as it could disrupt a key system in a logistics route. If that alliance were at war, one could only imagine the rage and dissatisfaction if they were to lose that war due to even the perceived effects of a randomly-generated, uncontrollable incursion.
Furthermore, one of the main attractions of EVE is that it does little to force players into their chosen style of game-play. Instead, all items, features, rules, and mechanisms in EVE are tools that enhance player freedom to better pursue whatever goals they wish in the game. By reducing NPC bounties, player resistances, and player damage, Incursions fly in the face of that tradition. It is the first mechanism that actively discourages certain players from pursuing their chosen goal and forces them to complete a goal foisted upon them by the game, and not other players. This is a reduction of player freedom and should not be implemented.
On a side note, Incursions seems aimed at getting players to socialize with each other. If a player wanted to play with other people, there are plenty of tools in game to enable him to do so. Forcing players into using those tools is completely uncalled for and will probably just discourage affected players from logging in.
The only people who seem happy about this are lowsec pirates as their primary activities are minimally disrupted by incursions. In fact, since faction supercarrier BPCs are rewarded in lowsec only, pirate activities actually benefit the most out of incursions. Therefore, I propose that the disruptive aspects of Incursions be eliminated entirely. Incursions in any given system will draw players there anyway for the unique loyalty points and the possible blueprint rewards. Making the incursions affect all players in the system is redundant and detrimental to the game experience. Please put incursions in the long line of EVE features that have enhanced, and not unnecessarily interfered with the player experience.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2010.11.14 01:04:00 -
[447]
This sounds like it might be interesting to try however WITHOUT the negative effects to EVERYONE in the system. That just seems like you are trying to force people to participate whether they want to or not, whether they have time to etc.
I play the game as relaxation and for fun... not to be forced into doing something I may not enjoy or have time for.
If the rewards are high enough and fair (carrot) plenty will probably do it. Forcing people (the stick) to participate (or move out of region or system) is just going to annoy a huge section of Eve I imagine.
I am not whining, but why set out to annoy people who pay your salaries? I really am baffled. When I first heard about the ridiculous reward system and the negative effects hitting everyone in area, I thought it was a troll joke post.
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Sybil War
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Posted - 2010.11.14 04:59:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Manssell Edited by: Manssell on 13/11/2010 17:42:36 At first I was really excited about this, but after reading more... not so much. I guess my concerns are what does this do to the small 1-4 man corps? At first I thought this would be a great way to hop into some group PVE for the small guys, but it seems CCP needs to address how these fleets actually get formed? Are these going to be open fleets anyone can join? It doesn't appear so. What incentive does the big corps have then to let the small guys join in? Are we just supposed to beg in local for someone to let us fleet up, which in Eve is like a group of teen agers hitchhiking on a hunted route 666 at night?
I do want to like this CCP, but it really seems the small corps are going to get hosed on this one. I hope not, but I don't see any game mechanics that encourage the big corps to fleet up with them (other than to kill them), and the small corps will still get all the penalties.
You can fleet with anyone. On the test server today I fleeted with some random guy to go check out a site. But your right it isn't really set up for small groups. I think the lowest rated site is 5-10? Anywhos, I went and checked one out in my pimped out Proteus with an Ishkur pilot I met in system and we headed in to a 5-10 man site I believe. There were 4 cruisers and 4-5 frigates. The ishkur was insta-popped and the Proteus went down like a paper bag despite the rockin' resists it had sported, not sure how bad they got nerfed by the system effects. Oh and there was a domi wreck sitting there as the last NPC's victim with no NPC wrecks. I don't see logi doing well in these sites and it's going to take some seriously massed fleets to burn through these. It was hard to tell if the AI was actually smarter. It seemed like they were just beefed up on power. About 6 systems were in incursion, 2 0.0, 2 lowsec, and 2 hi sec I believe.
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Garekell
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Posted - 2010.11.14 05:00:00 -
[449]
Pretty much this exactly. Make rewards better and shared (as opposed to the inane plan of only the 'most active and effective fleet' getting any pay) and kill the negative effects on everyone in area whether participating or not - and you might have something fun and interesting - otherwise FAIL.
Originally by: Dalketh This sounds like it might be interesting to try however WITHOUT the negative effects to EVERYONE in the system. That just seems like you are trying to force people to participate whether they want to or not, whether they have time to etc.
I play the game as relaxation and for fun... not to be forced into doing something I may not enjoy or have time for.
If the rewards are high enough and fair (carrot) plenty will probably do it. Forcing people (the stick) to participate (or move out of region or system) is just going to annoy a huge section of Eve I imagine.
I am not whining, but why set out to annoy people who pay your salaries? I really am baffled. When I first heard about the ridiculous reward system and the negative effects hitting everyone in area, I thought it was a troll joke post.
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.14 08:50:00 -
[450]
Ya thoughs rats are some heavy hiting rats. I just dont see how pug fleet of mission bears ships are going to do anything but die badly and not get anything.
I mean if I want to go though a ship away and get nothing for it I'm going to go pvp. It at least is more fun then this. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
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