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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2010.11.10 22:59:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Dmoney3788 If someone ganks you in your hisec mission hub they get concorded.
oh i know. but that wont make me any happier having lost more then them now does it? *chuckles*
though.. i do wonder.. what kind of time frame do we have from the warning?
Think about the times you just enter a harder pocket with scramblers.. OR when out lugging the old charon around.. not like i can just haul that around on a dime when i see a sansha gatecamp.
But ok.. after a cup of coffee.. is there nothign this brew cant cure? i do feel more optimistic about the invasion but if we get like "sansha incomming NOW..." and bam my tank is halved and my dps halved (or so) when i am warpscrambled, webbed in WC.. that wont make me a happy sexual harrasment panda. But if i get like 30 seconds.. fine :) if i cant kill em in 30 seconds i shouldnt be there.
*cracks knuckles* guess i can get some cheap tempests or something.. *grins*
bring it sansha!!!! :)
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Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.10 22:59:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Dmoney3788 If someone ganks you in your hisec mission hub they get concorded.
But if they let the sansha's do it, they can loot his wreck, kick the noob from the fleet, and collect the reward from CONCORD for a job well done.
Ever heard of the directional scan? Yeah, use the D-scan before you activate the acceleration gate to verify that they are actually in there. Of course, there is no game mechanic that will stop idiots from dying
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:00:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Matalino This is exactly why incursion will not work for casual groups, even in high sec. You need to trust those that you fly with when your ship is on the line.
Those sites _require_ remote tanks. If there is remote tanking going on, you can't team up anymore with random folk because sooner then later somebody will shoot a fleet member, intentionally or not.
Originally by: Matalino
The incursion rats scram, jam, web and neut. I expect many tears from those who join up with unknown fleets.
If the stuff that was on sisi a while back goes live, I expect many tears from more or less anybody. Those sanshas sites are *beep*ing death traps.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:01:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Dmoney3788 If someone ganks you in your hisec mission hub they get concorded.
But if they let the sansha's do it, they can loot his wreck, kick the noob from the fleet, and collect the reward from CONCORD for a job well done.
Except, of course, the Sansha will be shooting them as well and one of them is more likely to die than the noob.
I think we are going to find that playing "boot people out of gang before the last ship is dead" games are not going to work. It only makes sense that the server will look at the maximum number of people that were in the gang from the time combat started. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:02:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Ranger 1
You mean like the ones that have been in effect in wormholes since day one? The same effects that people say are the best and most challenging thing about fighting there?
With wormholes you have the choice of avoiding them, just sayin. I for one welcome our sansha overlords
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Aethana
Minmatar Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:03:00 -
[216]
What if I hate mission runners?
Can I fleet up--kill all but one sansha ship...
Then EPIC--we add 20 RR ships on the sansha ship and just THERE--stop all bounties and mining as much as we can...
Imagine the epic isk lost of doing this for a few days in motsu...
Also could a high sec carrier--the few rare ones--RR a sansha NPC so no one can kill it?
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Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:05:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Aethana What if I hate mission runners?
Can I fleet up--kill all but one sansha ship...
Then EPIC--we add 20 RR ships on the sansha ship and just THERE--stop all bounties and mining as much as we can...
Imagine the epic isk lost of doing this for a few days in motsu...
Also could a high sec carrier--the few rare ones--RR a sansha NPC so no one can kill it?
Providing RR to rats makes you go global, at least the last time I tried it.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:06:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Aethana What if I hate mission runners?
Can I fleet up--kill all but one sansha ship...
Then EPIC--we add 20 RR ships on the sansha ship and just THERE--stop all bounties and mining as much as we can...
Imagine the epic isk lost of doing this for a few days in motsu...
Also could a high sec carrier--the few rare ones--RR a sansha NPC so no one can kill it?
You get GCC for RRing a pirate npc. You won't last long in high sec with GCC, even in a carrier.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:07:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Aethana What if I hate mission runners?
Can I fleet up--kill all but one sansha ship...
Then EPIC--we add 20 RR ships on the sansha ship and just THERE--stop all bounties and mining as much as we can...
Imagine the epic isk lost of doing this for a few days in motsu...
Also could a high sec carrier--the few rare ones--RR a sansha NPC so no one can kill it?
Unless they do something spectacularly different, it'll probably be like all beneficial support to rats: one GCC for you, and a nice visit from CONCORDà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:09:00 -
[220]
Well, planetary interaction was in principal a good thing, the execution wasnt that good but the intention behind it was very eve like. Making pos fuel and pos modules produced by players instead of npcs was very sandboxy.
Making NPCs invade space is not very sanboxy. Actually it feels a bit like the new wow expansion where an ancient dragon or something will awake. Did i spot a similarity here? Is it even intentional?
ege
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Isaac Apylon
Minmatar As Far As The eYe can see
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:10:00 -
[221]
Oh my God, this is ****ing awesome. I am positively looking forward to this; it's about time CCP spices up PvE a bit. And anything that makes carebears of both the empire and null variety ***** and moan is great. |
Matalino
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:11:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Except, of course, the Sansha will be shooting them as well and one of them is more likely to die than the noob.
I think we are going to find that playing "boot people out of gang before the last ship is dead" games are not going to work. It only makes sense that the server will look at the maximum number of people that were in the gang from the time combat started.
It is not that hard to get them to switch targets. Often just showing up is all it takes. If you let the pirates go first, they will wait for you to join them and for Sansha's to switch targets then let you die. If you go first, they let you die before jumping in to clean up.
Noobs will always be at a disadvantage. If there is any possiblity that you are on the outside of the fleets social circle then there is a high probablity of your death. It will not be long before the details of the mechanics are worked out so that the pirates ensure that their victims die with a high level of certainty.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:13:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 10/11/2010 23:13:54
Originally by: TeaDaze No matter what certain people in management think the majority of Eve players are here because Eve is not Wow!).
I agree with the statement but disagree with the underlying sentiment. Introducing content that reinforces the point that nowhere in this game is perfectly safe and predictable is the most EVE-like and unWOW-like thing they could possibly do.
Quote: I liked it when CCP actually dared to be different instead of trying to replace the sand with concrete.
I really like your metaphor, but what in the past would you give as an example of them daring to be different? Rocking the boat with negative reinforcement like this and creating hotspots for players to cooperate and compete looks pretty damn daring to me.
On a different note...
Quote: I lost what remained of my faith in CCP when they started looking at facebook games and warcraft for inspiration.
I read the CSM notes...that is indeed worrying. Possibly more so hearing it firsthand.
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Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:13:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Ranger 1 Except, of course, the Sansha will be shooting them as well and one of them is more likely to die than the noob.
I think we are going to find that playing "boot people out of gang before the last ship is dead" games are not going to work. It only makes sense that the server will look at the maximum number of people that were in the gang from the time combat started.
It is not that hard to get them to switch targets. Often just showing up is all it takes. If you let the pirates go first, they will wait for you to join them and for Sansha's to switch targets then let you die. If you go first, they let you die before jumping in to clean up.
Noobs will always be at a disadvantage. If there is any possiblity that you are on the outside of the fleets social circle then there is a high probablity of your death. It will not be long before the details of the mechanics are worked out so that the pirates ensure that their victims die with a high level of certainty.
Get some friends and form up your own gang then. Its a freaking MMO for god's sake
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:15:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Dmoney3788 Get some friends and form up your own gang then. Its a freaking MMO for god's sake
Fleeting up with friends has never been a problem. Just pointing out that it is a bad idea to fleet up with strangers if your going into an incursion site.
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Xel Ra
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:17:00 -
[226]
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Seriously Bored did everyone gloss over the fact that you can get named capital modules with that CONCORD LP? Once the general populace wises up to the rewards, they'll be clamoring to get in on this.
If the rewards are so great and the sites so much fun then why the need for system wide penalties to "encourage" people to take part
Yeah, like - I don't know....every other single aspect of the game. Hurrdurr.
Quote: Also with the current state of supercapital proliferation the two things Eve didn't need are a faction supercarrier and named/faction capital mods to fit it out with...
What a consummately knowledgeable perspective, to whip out the ol' "proliferation observation" like the "seasoned vet" you are. Supercaps 'er bad, mmmmkay? Really? They seem right in line with the intent of the developers in having fleet warfare, since the beginning, if you ask me. What makes you think you have any authority whatsoever to know how many supercaps should be in Eve and on what facts are you basing any negative implication?
Quote: I lost what remained of my faith in CCP when they started looking at facebook games and warcraft for inspiration (hey guys, the fact that people think this looks a bit like Wow isn't actually a complement. No matter what certain people in management think the majority of Eve players are here because Eve is not Wow!).
Again with the original observations: (Insert blahblahblah "WoW" comment. Durrhurrr.) It was old a year ago. Such stunning intellectual poise.....well, not really, and amounting to pretty much sophistry. Who doesn't look at their competition, even if it's to see what _not_ to do? Sophisticated business acumen, Tea-bagged. At least we know who got the lowest common denominator vote for CSM and which crowd that is.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:18:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Aeo IV
Players will, for the most part, leave the system. Group pve cannot work in eve online, and here's why:
In most mmos, when there is group PVE, a dead player can be undone by a res, and a team wipe is just a matter of respawning and dealing with whatever death penalty the game forces on you. Sometimes it's an xp debt, sometimes you pay for your corpse.
Eve's not like that. If I lose my BS because a fleet screw up, it doesn't matter if I come back and fight because 25m isk isn't going to put me back into the black. (insurance helps, but still).
Here's what I predict will happen; if it's high sec, most of the players will log or leave. If it's in low sec, a handful of pirates will show up to screw any players over trying to complete it. If it's null sec, the alliance holding the space will probably remove it if they can, or ignore it.
These Incursions will likely last until they naturally expire, or if they don't, they'll last for days if not weeks.
I was somewhat looking forward to this incursion thing, but frankly the whole thing seems boring.
This.
This sums up my reservations precisely. (Note the bolded section, my emphasis.)
I understand that CCP wants to scale difficulty with reward, but relying on other players to provide the difficulty ("Hay, let's just toss the cool ones into low-sec instead of better AI or instancing") throws it all out of whack.
EVE is a game of risk management, and most players know pretty well how to measure this. Give me PvP, or give me PvE, but don't force me to do balance both at the same time. Not worth it. =P
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:18:00 -
[228]
On a completely unrelated topic, I can't wait for the first incursion in jita. Imagine all the autopiloting fritters on the loose
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:19:00 -
[229]
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Uh.... the question was whether or not what logi/commandships do (hint: not dps) counts as "participation" to the mechanic that ccp made for rewards distribution.
They do - because people who didn't bring logistics (and command ships would definitely be of benefit) aren't going to last more than a minute or two at a site.
To use a wow analogy (since this is instanced PvE content), it would be like showing up to a raid without healers.
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Kuan Yida
Minmatar Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:20:00 -
[230]
An earlier comment made me wonder... is this whole business a tactic to kill all the macro miners? Because if it works, mineral prices are gonna shoot up...
http://kuanyida.tumblr.com/ |
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:29:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Dmoney3788 On a completely unrelated topic, I can't wait for the first incursion in jita. Imagine all the autopiloting fritters on the loose
Amen!
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randomToon987
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:32:00 -
[232]
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Seriously Bored did everyone gloss over the fact that you can get named capital modules with that CONCORD LP? Once the general populace wises up to the rewards, they'll be clamoring to get in on this.
If the rewards are so great and the sites so much fun then why the need for system wide penalties to "encourage" people to take part
Also with the current state of supercapital proliferation the two things Eve didn't need are a faction supercarrier and named/faction capital mods to fit it out with...
I lost what remained of my faith in CCP when they started looking at facebook games and warcraft for inspiration (hey guys, the fact that people think this looks a bit like Wow isn't actually a complement. No matter what certain people in management think the majority of Eve players are here because Eve is not Wow!).
I liked it when CCP actually dared to be different instead of trying to replace the sand with concrete.
^ This |
DontMindMe JustPassnThru
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:36:00 -
[233]
[quote =CCP Devs] Hi and welcome to EVE online, the open ended sandbox where events are driven by the players and not scripted like in other MMOs. By the way we just scripted a huge NPC invasion of your space be sure to run along and shoot rats for the next two weeks or your space will be completely ruined, good little players, off you go and follow the script...
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Vekyn
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:39:00 -
[234]
Originally by: MotherMoon Another question. will the number of systems grow like an infection if not cleared up giving incentive to nearby systems to help out too? please say they will or everyone will just clear out. wouldn't it be awesome if incursions grew?
This. If Incursions aren't dealt with within a reasonable timeframe (week maybe?), they should spread to one or two adjoining systems. This would really require people to respond in force to clear it before it became too large.
Also, there needs to be a damn sight more than one per region, or each one will turn into a colossal gankfest, with the earliest big gang/alliance taking most of the rewards. Five to ten of varying strength per region would give smaller groups a chance to get involved in the lower levels without disrupting the big boys cake-fest.
Looking forward to it. |
Mahabhava
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:41:00 -
[235]
Living Light > that will be happening - as Sansha invaded the system for 3-5 days, players from that system will move to a near by one as the guests to do that they been doing in their own for that period.
LOL
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Sealiah
Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
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Posted - 2010.11.10 23:47:00 -
[236]
I await incursions in niarja and jita. I wanna see all those AFK freighters (even empty ones) that flew half the galaxy on autopilot blown into bits by a handfull of npc cruisers.
As a side note - I'm seriously waiting for the incursions, but I'm kind of sad that probably they won't work in low sec since too much risk vs the reward... And a great chance you won't get any reward since the cloaky sb is just waiting to snatch the ms bpc and fly off.
Also:
- will they attack sov mods and drop sbus? I sure hope so - will they have some relatively nice numbers in high sec? Like 30-50 bs on each gate? If you call it war - make it look like one, not 5 bs on a gate. I want to see an army, not a scout group. tacklers with 1.5-2k scan res? - will they shoot station services and camp outposts? That would sure cause many people to undock - those carebear pvpers especially. - will they use bubbles in 0,0? - Will I be able to use my carrier/dreadnaught/sc/titan if it is already in that system? - will we get a drop of the module breaking cynos in a system just by being in it? I sure would want that baby, even if it's jsut installable on a ms. - will sansha sc/ms be dd-able? If yes - I sure know who'll profit most from the incursions...
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.11 00:09:00 -
[237]
Hey guys
Thanks for all the feedback. Let me just delve into two issues here:
Regarding the concern about lack of reward:
The screenshot may not show it, but these sites will be very rewarding on the isk/hour scale. The fact that itÆs dynamic (you canÆt farm it forever) allows us to crank it up to a pretty awesome level. WeÆve been doing public playtests of these sites on sisi and will very likely continue to do so, which means you can come check them out for yourselves. But yeah, tl;dr is that if you run these, you wonÆt be poor for long.
Regarding wanting to contribute:
IÆm not a big fan on instances or ôartificialö game environments, where you can opt out. Incursions are made in a manner that theyÆre a part of the landscape and part of the living, breathing universe EVE is. There is no instant dungeon finder here; there is no flagging to participate, this is the world youÆre in and there is no promise or guarantee that itÆs friendly. Just like you can get killed in pretty much all areas of space by players, get locked out of your station in 0.0 or wardecced, youÆll also run into areas under Sansha siege. When that happens, you can chose to fight back (and make a good chunk of cash on the way), or flee the area till the siege is over. ThatÆs EVE, itÆs not always a very nice place.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2010.11.11 00:17:00 -
[238]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege Edited by: egegergergsdgedgege on 10/11/2010 19:27:51 Hello CCP.
I don't want to judge the incursion sites it self, because i don't know them yet nor do I care about them. Maybe they are nice to do maybe not, i don't really care.
The thing that bothers me is the influence of those events on the solar systems. You are basically forceing players to do NPC content even if they dont want to. Other NPC content was always optional and you always had the choice not to care about it. With those incursions that ocure at reandom places you are adding an element to the game that can not be controlled by players. In other games and mmos that is cool and fine but not in eve. Eve was always player driven. Imagine chess where a dice could block a random pawn. You are introducing a dice to the great chess game of 0.0 warfare. In my opinion this is a very bad idea.
I dont think the 0.0 population will be very happy about incursions. Imagine you want to go on a little roam, but you can't because you have to clean this incursion first because its a logistcal important system.
Please do think about it.
ege
cool story bro
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2010.11.11 00:23:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Tamahra on 11/11/2010 00:23:44
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
EVE is a game of risk management, and most players know pretty well how to measure this. Give me PvP, or give me PvE, but don't force me to do balance both at the same time. Not worth it. =P
So what you¦re proposing is: Remove all pve content from pvp zones, so the game can fit to your playstyle.
And btw: Cool story bro.
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2010.11.11 00:24:00 -
[240]
I'm going to bring up two points that have been bugging me.
1. I know that Sansha's nation has storyline things going on, which is the reason they are the faction doing the incursions. However, this unbalances the other pirate factions, and makes all the others look week by comparison, I would have much preferred if they used say, EoM, whom everyone hates anyway for this, or included incursions for all the pirate factions. There is still the chance CCP will do this, but its looking rather unlikely at this point, and as an Angel, I feel unloved. :(
2. with the system automated, how will the storyline progress? It seems to me whenever CCP creates a mechanic they then drop the story attached to it like a bad habit. The sansha will just keep doing incursions...forever.
3. There is still no mechanic to support the Sansha, I understand the reasoning (there isn't enough interest to make it worth our time) but thats a self fulfilling prophecy, as long as there is no mechanic to support it, no one will want to. If you build it they will come.
I'd really like to hear back from a dev on this.
Crazy doesn't even start to cover it |
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