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xarjin
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: xarjin on 12/11/2010 03:45:59 I must say thanks for adding anti-aliasing support, crisp graphics make looking at the game a much more enjoyable experience.
Now with that mentioned here's the bad news thus far on my tests of the new AA support including my computer specs
With everything on high settings and HDR enabled in the 202056 sisi build using interval immediate I can easily top out the sisi client at 200+fps with my pc with AA disabled running an HD resolution which exceeds 1080p ( 2048x1152 ) and my vid cards running at around 50% gpu loads
With the same high settings and AA set to -just- 2x the fps drops to just below 30 with no noticable increase in gpu loads
I'm almost certain the fps drop is either related to one or a combination of things with my setup that CCP can use for reference to improve eve in the future to better support using HDR+AA
-- PC specs --
Win 7 x64 ultimate Intel core i7 920 D0 stepping standard clock 12GB patriot extreme DDR3 Gigabyte [GA-X58A-UD5 (rev. 2.0) motherboard samsung syncmaster 2048BWX lcd (native resolution is 2048x1152) matched pair of MSI 480 GTX nvidia's in sli not overclocked running 260.99 nvidia x64 drivers
-- Conclusions --
My computer hardware is obviously not a potential bottleneck for testing graphics performance
I've done testing with my pc on the new world of warcraft client exclusively testing how well directx 11 performs compared to directx 9 and I've had much much better results with directx 11. frame-rates improved by 100+ fps, and a noticeable decrease in gpu load averages.
I admit it may be possible that the decreased performance I experience with eve while running with AA enabled is due to the fermi nvidia architecture obviously appearing to perform much better with DX11 based on some testing where eve only supports DX9.
CCP dev's i know you guys just moved to supporting shader model 3 as a minimum not too long ago but if your plans are to have both performance and quality work well together in the eve client eve needs shader model 5 support ( DX11 ) alongside DX9
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Hra Neuvosto
The 8th Order
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Posted - 2010.11.12 05:51:00 -
[2]
I have a very annoying problem with AA. It prevents me from playing.
After turning AA on my entire client froze up. I restarted it and now I can't see the settings and login stuff on it at all, only the splash screen background.
I know they are still there because when I hover my mouse over them the cursor changes. I just cant see them, which prevents me from turning AA off.
So now I guess my only hope is to reinstall sisi again.
WinXP 32b ATI Radeon HD 4870 1GB
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Captian Conrad
Minmatar Empyrean Warriors
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Captian Conrad on 12/11/2010 11:13:46
Bug report it dude, as well this is on sisi atm so still experemental and will probs need some tweeking (mabye some SLI compatability problem), 2edly comparing a test server to wow just is not cricket ;)
also btw ur find higer frames on DX 10/11 as it has better support for SLI/quad setups ;) and secondaly ur not doing ur pc any favors not having v-sync on, 100fps+ may be good for ur ego but not for your pc _________________________________ Looking for cool pilots, check our advert |
xarjin
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: xarjin on 12/11/2010 11:34:40 Edited by: xarjin on 12/11/2010 11:34:16
Originally by: Captian Conrad Edited by: Captian Conrad on 12/11/2010 11:13:46
Bug report it dude, as well this is on sisi atm so still experemental and will probs need some tweeking (mabye some SLI compatability problem), 2edly comparing a test server to wow just is not cricket ;)
also btw ur find higer frames on DX 10/11 as it has better support for SLI/quad setups ;) and secondaly ur not doing ur pc any favors not having v-sync on, 100fps+ may be good for ur ego but not for your pc
I'm well aware if v-sync but having a 200fps buffer that reduces framerate lag and doesn't even make my pc hardware break a sweat suits me nicely :) the alternative is being locked to 60fps and having framerates drop starting at 60fps instead of 200+. the key issue is while my hardware can support running 16QxAA which is extreme anti-aliasing modes just enabling 2x AA tanks eve's framerate by 170fps or more in the latest test build. i also couldn't agree more with the comments about DX10/11 and have to wonder how DX11 is really worth not supporting :)
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Captian Conrad
Minmatar Empyrean Warriors
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Posted - 2010.11.12 11:44:00 -
[5]
hmm.. well its your pc
And yea tbh with win7 its becoming more common as thats slowly replacing XP but there are a lot of peeps runing on the old stuff still (lest not foget laptop players ;), but yea give it some time, u know the shader model is ramping up for eve next year for incarna...that will look brill on that pc dude! real time lighting, (working) AA, ect :D
Anyway a lil offtopic there hehe :P, will repatch sisi today as its back to incursion lv and see about my setup :) _________________________________ Looking for cool pilots, check our advert |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.12 13:27:00 -
[6]
àalso, AA doesn't seem to be working on the Mac build. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.11.13 14:33:00 -
[7]
202056, AA won't enable. I choose any AA option, apply it, close window. Either before or after logging in, I think it's flashing a dialog box for a split second, but then it's always disabled in the menu again when I look. I'm sure it worked on earlier builds, so I'm reluctant to mess with graphics drivers. |
Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.13 18:09:00 -
[8]
AA is not working here either.. It looks like the option is turned ON, but there is no different in visuals or FPS.
geforce 7300 gt ( 258.96 drivers ) asus p5k premium intel core 2 duo e8400 @3.00 ghz 4 gb ram windows 7 64
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Keisty Fitten
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Posted - 2010.11.13 19:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia àalso, AA doesn't seem to be working on the Mac build.
here's a thought...buy a real computer. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.13 20:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Keisty Fitten
Originally by: Tippia àalso, AA doesn't seem to be working on the Mac build.
here's a thought...buy a real computer.
Here's another thought: stop being poor and buy one yourself. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.13 20:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Keisty Fitten
Originally by: Tippia àalso, AA doesn't seem to be working on the Mac build.
here's a thought...buy a real computer.
Here's another thought: stop being poor and buy one yourself.
Because apple is famous for providing superior computers instead of just overpriced ones with good designs. But what gamer wouldn't pay 1,5 or 2 times the price of a normal computer for the privilage of having a computer with a more limited library of games and worse support in most of those.
PS. Since you have the money, why not actually buy an OS and hardware that is properly supported by games? Mac will always have it worse in games, since so few actually use them compared to other computers, so save the mac for working and use a proper gaming PC for playing.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.13 20:35:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/11/2010 20:36:00
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue PS. Since you have the money, why not actually buy an OS and hardware that is properly supported by games?
What, a PS3? I already have one. Unfortunately, EVE isn't available on it. A PC with Unix solves everything else. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Keisty Fitten
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Posted - 2010.11.13 21:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Keisty Fitten
Originally by: Tippia àalso, AA doesn't seem to be working on the Mac build.
here's a thought...buy a real computer.
Here's another thought: stop being poor and buy one yourself.
nuff said, really. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.13 22:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Keisty Fitten nuff said, really.
Apart from some rather obvious mistakes in that criticism, yes: saying "get a real computer" about a PC is rather silly, since that's the only platform that will run EVE. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.14 00:49:00 -
[15]
Stop the OS/PC/MAC talk It is POINTLESS
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Keisty Fitten
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 13/11/2010 22:37:14
Originally by: Keisty Fitten nuff said, really.
Apart from some rather obvious mistakes in that criticism, yes: saying "get a real computer" about a PC is rather silly, since that's the only platform that will run EVE.
Btw, if you think Apple is expensive, you should see Dell ù now those guys are nuts!
because when I need a top of the line PC, I buy pre-built machines... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Keisty Fitten because when I need a top of the line PC, I buy pre-built machines...
vOv You were the one trying to argue (by proxy) that Apple made expensive computers. They're not ù as the link shows, they're pretty much as cheap as a Dell. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.15 20:13:00 -
[18]
Is this a Mac vs. PC fanboyz war? Or SISI / AA feedback thread?
Anyway, let me share my experience with the new AA - in two words - pretty weird
-- PC Setup --
OS: Windows 7 x64 Ultimate CPU: Intel i7 Core 920 @ 3.6GHz MB: ASUS Rampage Extreme III X58 RAM: 6x2GB DDR3 1800MHz VC: Sapphire AMD Radeon HD5870 Toxic w/ 2GB GDDR5
-- SISI Client FPS --
1920x1200 Max Settings / All Effects / Models / Brackets etc.:
AA Disabled from EVE & CCC: 180-330 FPS AA Enabled in EVE (2x) & CCC (Application Control / Mode: SSAA Quality / Edge-Detect): 70-80 FPS AA Enabled in EVE (4x) & CCC (Application Control / Mode: SSAA Quality / Edge-Detect): 40-60 FPS AA Enabled in EVE (8x) & CCC (Application Control / Mode: SSAA Quality / Edge-Detect): 15-25 FPS
-- FANTASTIC VISUALS, BUT... --
1. After exiting the EVE SISI client my desktop started to mess up - lot's of artefacts, the GAMMA went down considerably, so the picture was pretty dark etc. 2. After a restart everything was back to normal - until the next EVE Sisi launch with AA 3. Any other AA Modes different from SSAA / Edge Detect tend to "smooth", or I should say "smear", the EVE UI font & texts. The font is totaly unreadable even without AA, but with the new Morphological AA or SAAA Wide-Tent becomes real crappy nightmare...Unfortuantely there is no Graphic card setup in the world that does not take huge performance hit with Super-Sampling AA / Edge-Detect...I was hoping that the other possible algorithms will work OK with EVE, but no...
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
TamiyaCowboy
Caldari KRAKEN FLEET
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Posted - 2010.11.16 13:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: TamiyaCowboy on 16/11/2010 13:23:06 a very much needed add on.
Intel Quad Q6600 P5Q Pro asus mobo 2GB 800MHZ ram (2x 1gb) NV9600GT asus 512mb ddr3(EH glacier) 450GB Maxtor 7500 HDD Sata
Nvidia driver profiles set to default, rivatuner off - profiles default, GPU unclocked + ram unclocked.
locked fps @ 60, AAx4, No Bloom, all other settings to high.
a huge change in eyecandy, no more jaggies, tactical overlay has no jaggies and does not wander around. ship models more crisp and cleaner lines.
a 100% improvement well done CCP, all we need now are STRM data mapping on the planets and moons to bring PI some eyecandy
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.16 15:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Keisty Fitten because when I need a top of the line PC, I buy pre-built machines...
vOv You were the one trying to argue (by proxy) that Apple made expensive computers. They're not ù as the link shows, they're pretty much as cheap as a Dell.
apple does make expensive computers. and his argument stands, most people who wouldn't buy fischer-price 'My first computer' usually build their own when they want a high performance machine.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.16 15:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ogogov apple does make expensive computers. and his argument stands, most people who wouldn't buy fischer-price 'My first computer' usually build their own when they want a high performance machine.
He might have a point, but the link he posted is not it because it makes a rather stupid and uninformed comparison.
As for "My first computer", I think you're overestimating the ratio between people who build their own and people who buy pre-built (not to mention those who did build their own, but who could no longer be arsed). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Blind Man
Caldari Point Blank Carebears
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Posted - 2010.11.18 02:50:00 -
[22]
3520x1900 resolution, i7 930@4GHZ, gtx 470 sli, oc to 750/1800
all settings max, aa off - 60fps, 700mb VRAM used, GPU usage around 45% each 2x aa - cuts to around 25 FPS, both GPU @ around 60% usage, 1045mb vram used 4x aa - down to 16 fps, gpu usage still around 60%, ~1200mb vram used --- 8x aa+ - unplayable due to vram cap
Dont really expect to play with 8x aa or more at this resolution (then again I can't see much of a difference anyways) but the lack of SLI support(?) is killing me at 2x/4xx AA
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Vrenth
Gallente The Program Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.18 07:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ogogov apple does make expensive computers. and his argument stands, most people who wouldn't buy fischer-price 'My first computer' usually build their own when they want a high performance machine.
He might have a point, but the link he posted is not it because it makes a rather stupid and uninformed comparison.
As for "My first computer", I think you're overestimating the ratio between people who build their own and people who buy pre-built (not to mention those who did build their own, but who could no longer be arsed).
Before I get started, I'm not saying that eve shouldn't run flawlessly on macs, I want people who own them to be part of this community.
To my point though, you are so very wrong in every argument you have made in this thread. Comparing Dell to Apple is like comparing oranges to blowup boats. Neither make great gaming machines. Also, dell is NOWHERE near as expensive as buying a Mac from Apple. Sure, they have overpriced PCs, but they are generally affordable if your not getting ridiculous hardware. I can put together a machine on dell's website that match the specs of that mac and I guarantee you it's going to cost a 3rd of the price.
The fact is, apples have their place in the "personal computer" market, to prevent $soft from monopolizing the market for OS... but in no way shape or form should anyone EVER buy a mac strictly for gaming. It has unique user interface, some neat programs (I may add most of these programs have an equal or greater equivelent), and great customer support. But PC gamers (I speak of mac users as well with the term PC) do not need ANY of that. If I want a gaming machine, I'm going to build a beast for 1000$ that I can keep upgrading for pennies on the dollor for around 3-5 years before I have to spend any major cash on... and you can go well cheaper if you don't need near top tier. To boast that your mac is better than a manufactured pc is insane, because you can spend those same pennies to upgrade it as you can a built machine (in most cases).
Please do some research and get over the smugginess before posting about your "awesome" puter. P.S. I hope they fix your problem. |
Narme Delphos
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Posted - 2010.11.18 20:30:00 -
[24]
Bringing this back on topic, I found AA performance on a single 5850 Toxic Edition to be perfectly fine my end. However, the image quality I got with AA is nothing short of abysmal. Everything was blurred, including the font, which is hardly perfect at the best of times.
Please tell me this is either a bug or the AA implementation is WIP. It would be ironic for EVE to finally get AA, but for it to be so terribly implemented that turning it off was compulsory.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:48:00 -
[25]
First off in my experience the two most CPU/GPU intensive parts of any game are shadows and AA. Shadows more than AA but AA not being far behind. That said my monitor supports 1920x1080 max resolution. With that large of a resolution 8x or even 4x AA is all that is needed to smooth the edges enough that I don't notice jaggies. With a smaller resolution a higher AA is needed for the same effect.
That said...you made a point at the end of your post about DX11 vs DX9 and I believe you are spot on with that. Most of the newer higher end cards actually take a performance hit if running a game below a certain resolution or even below its native DX standard. In my case DX10 is my standard but if im trying to run a DX9 game in 1680x1024 I get a lower FPS on that 3 year old game than I do playing COD Black Ops on max settings.
Lastly...are you positive that the native resolution of your monitor is its max setting. I say this because some monitors which exceed the 1080p resolution actually have a native resolution of 1920x1080 even though it can still do 2048x1152. This can also cause a loss in performance obviously. Also don't answer that question by looking at what Windows is saying the native resolution is as it generally defaults to the highest resolution the monitor can attain. See what the monitor manufacturer says about that specific monitors native resolution. My monitor can do 2048x1152 but its native resolution is only 1920x1080 and thats what I run it in.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vrenth Also, dell is NOWHERE near as expensive as buying a Mac from Apple. Sure, they have overpriced PCs, but they are generally affordable if your not getting ridiculous hardware. I can put together a machine on dell's website that match the specs of that mac and I guarantee you it's going to cost a 3rd of the price.
See the link I provided earlier ù it provides an oranges-to-oranges counter-example to the Mac Pro previously linked. Since that poster used a Pro as an example of how Apple overpriced for everything, it was worth-while to actually look at what stuff in that segment costs. As it happens: a hellalot. The Dell equivalent sits in the exact same price range, with the exact same markup (even *more* for some items, such as memory and disks). What does this mean? That the comparison is idiotic and that using a Mac Pro as a point to show anything is rather stupid because it's a workstation ù not something that you'll use as a grey box to sit under the table in your home.
Quote: Please do some research and get over the smugginess before posting about your "awesome" puter. P.S. I hope they fix your problem.
Likewise. It was trivial to find the above Dell workstation example to show what a moron whoever put that image together was. I'm sure you can find a different, equally horrid Dell that will perform better (and let's not even go into building stuff yourself), but you won't find one in the workstation segment. If you look elsewhere, though, the comparison becomes entirely invalid ù that was the point I was making.
Anyway, I don't have a Mac Pro because I don't need one, and I want my AA, dammit! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.19 00:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Narme Delphos Bringing this back on topic, I found AA performance on a single 5850 Toxic Edition to be perfectly fine my end. However, the image quality I got with AA is nothing short of abysmal. Everything was blurred, including the font, which is hardly perfect at the best of times.
Please tell me this is either a bug or the AA implementation is WIP. It would be ironic for EVE to finally get AA, but for it to be so terribly implemented that turning it off was compulsory.
Check your AA settings in Catalyst Control Center - ATI supports various AA modes, some of them are actually post-processing filters and make the picture & fonts blurry.
By memory: If you want eye-candy you should select Super-Sampling AA / Edge-Detect Mode.
P.S. I am posting from my home netbook, can't open ATI CCC on my office PC to make a screenshot...
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:15:00 -
[28]
Guys with Windows 7, are you running the .exe in Windows XP SP3 mode? That may have something to do with Direct X being nerfed a bit.
Also, what other video samples have you got enabled? HDR, Bloom etc?
I have: AMD P2 1090T 4GB 1600Mhz ram 2 x 5870 video cards in X-Fire CCC, with 10.10 driver
Going to install the new 10.11 driver tonight and run some AA tests as well. Also report the exe.exe CPU usage % too AA might be getting done there rather than on the video card..
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.19 11:19:00 -
[29]
OK, detailed instructions ATI/AMD Radeon:
1. Open ATI CCC 2. Go to Graphics -> 3D -> ALL 3. Check all the options related to AA
SMOOTHVISION HD Anti-Aliasing: Use Application Settings - TURN ON - you could control the sample size (2x/4x/8x) from EVE Graphics Settings Morphologicsl filtering (present only if you have 5xxx/6xxx series and 10.10 Drivers) - TURN OFF Filter - Select EDGE-DETECT (best AA) - ALL THE OTHER OPTIONS MAKE EVE UI BLURRY
Scroll down the options and go to:
Anti-Aliasing Mode
You have a slider with 3 levels of performance / quality: a) Multi Sample AA - Quality is low, performance degradation minimal b) Adaptive Multi Sample AA - Balanced quality vs. Performance c) Super Sample AA - Best quality, Severe performance hit
___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two |
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