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Corbeau Lenoir
ZER0. IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.18 12:21:00 -
[31]
You think that those changes are insufficient? Think again. Without crippling cap/speed bonuses new ammo will be used in almost any fight, where you will be shooting at larger and/or webbed target. +10% dmg is quite a lot. I would say that it's even enough to not bother about 30% tracking penalty.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.11.18 16:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir You think that those changes are insufficient? Think again. Without crippling cap/speed bonuses new ammo will be used in almost any fight, where you will be shooting at larger and/or webbed target. +10% dmg is quite a lot. I would say that it's even enough to not bother about 30% tracking penalty.
As a blaster user, i must say that almost nothing is worth the tracking penalty.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.11.18 17:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle As a blaster user, i must say that almost nothing is worth the tracking penalty.
As they are currently, but we must assume that there is a hybrid overhaul in the cards and with hybrid T2 ammo included I guess the overhaul will be focusing on changing the actual weapon stats.
More damage, less drawbacks .. there is no way that is not a good thing. Still miffed about the uninspired solution they seem to be opting for.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.11.18 20:06:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Oh haha! I just checked scorch. 25% tracking penalty is now 75%. Amarr nerf!!
Read again. 0.75% is not equal with 75% penalty
Well I never really payed much attention in math class so what does it work out to then? I'm assuming its a worse penalty than before though?
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.11.18 22:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle As a blaster user, i must say that almost nothing is worth the tracking penalty.
As they are currently, but we must assume that there is a hybrid overhaul in the cards and with hybrid T2 ammo included I guess the overhaul will be focusing on changing the actual weapon stats.
More damage, less drawbacks .. there is no way that is not a good thing. Still miffed about the uninspired solution they seem to be opting for.
I haven't seen any word from CCP regarding a hybrid fix on the forum, and even tho i only tried them first a year ago, i've heard they are in this "broken" state since the nano nerf. I wouldn't count on a hybrid fix in the near future, especially not in the next expansion, but i'd be glad if i was wrong.
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Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.18 22:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Oh haha! I just checked scorch. 25% tracking penalty is now 75%. Amarr nerf!!
Read again. 0.75% is not equal with 75% penalty
Well I never really payed much attention in math class so what does it work out to then? I'm assuming its a worse penalty than before though?
They're muiltiplying tracking by .75, which equates to 75% of the previous tracking value which equates to a 25% penalty. ** Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.11.18 23:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 17/11/2010 07:38:23 Bah, who cares about the short range t2 ammo when faction is still plentiful and cheap. The standout for me is the massive drop in penalty for aurora. -75% penalty to tracking changed to -25%? Oh boy oh boy time to break the snipoc and most especially the beam slicer out of the hanger.
Also a massive boost to zealots.
Guys, ffs, those are multipliers, just like the attribute name actually says. Aurora has a x0.25 multiplier, which means -75% penalty. It's the way it always has been.
A quick recap of the changes from what i noticed: - close-range high-damage ammo (Hail, Void, Conflagration) gets +10% damage (which is quite a lot tbh) - close-range high-damage ammo gets about +50% tracking compared to current TQ versions (they still have a tracking penalty, but it's -25% for Void and -30% for Hail and Conflagration, as opposed to -50% for everything). - T2 turret ammo overall loses the crippling special effects (cap recharge penalty for Hail, double shield penalty for Gleam, velocity penalty for Quake and rail Javelin).
I for one like the changes, they make high-damage ammo actually useful in some situations (especially for small hulls and destroyers in particular, can't speak for battleships). Obviously it still isn't "one size fits all" deal, but neither is faction ammo at this point (T2 ammo now significantly outdamages faction in situations where you can apply that damage).
I would still bump Null's falloff (and maybe optimal) multiplier to 1.5, as it still has pretty gimped range on range-unbonused ships (which is pretty much anything meant to fit blasters).
Dunno about the velocity penalties on ranged rockets/HAMs/torps and precision missiles. It makes them more of a "last resort" ammo for when you're pinned down, and since you need 10 seconds to load it (more like 15 if you count UI manipulation and lag) it's questionable if it's even worth bothering.
On the other hand, without the velocity penalty it's theoretically possible to just stay the hell out of range of close-range turret ships - but i'm not sure how real that danger is, considering that rockets' actual range tends to be considerably less than the theoretical maximum, and missile ships don't tend to be particularly maneuverable in the first place...
Also, whoever was comparing Void to Scorch, you're comparing apples to oranges. You should be comparing Scorch to Null or Void to Conflagration. And Scorch doesn't have anywhere close to Void's damage.
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Moroccan Tourist
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Posted - 2010.11.18 23:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Pesets double shield penalty for Gleam
sansha faction ships cant use gleam
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Moroccan Tourist
Originally by: Pesets double shield penalty for Gleam
sansha faction ships cant use gleam
Well, they can after these changes - as i said, these penalties have been removed. Basically, with these changes the only penalties on T2 ammo are tracking, range and cap usage (where applicable).
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Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.11.19 03:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir You think that those changes are insufficient? Think again. Without crippling cap/speed bonuses new ammo will be used in almost any fight, where you will be shooting at larger and/or webbed target. +10% dmg is quite a lot. I would say that it's even enough to not bother about 30% tracking penalty.
As a blaster user, i must say that almost nothing is worth the tracking penalty.
As a hybrid user in general, nothing is worth the tracking penalty. Caldari navy antimatter sales will not waver from these changes.
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Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.19 03:29:00 -
[41]
is there an ammo that gives a positive tracking bonus
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.19 07:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Oh haha! I just checked scorch. 25% tracking penalty is now 75%. Amarr nerf!!
Read again. 0.75% is not equal with 75% penalty
Well I never really payed much attention in math class so what does it work out to then? I'm assuming its a worse penalty than before though?
Man that's it 25% penalty and the old data was tr0.75% too.
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar Eighty Joule Brewery
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Posted - 2010.11.19 08:50:00 -
[43]
The new conflag for zealots vs anything larger than hac size(hi, drakes) is just a sick, sick boost.
Zealot Online, hi.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.11.19 09:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran The new conflag for zealots vs anything larger than hac size(hi, drakes) is just a sick, sick boost.
Zealot Online, hi.
Instant ammo switching on lasers too... this is really going to be bad for HAC balance. Maybe time to cut a turret or fittings from the Zealot?
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.19 10:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Zealot Online, hi.
Well ask PL what they think about your "Zealots online" when they found some BS fleets from a well known RP alliance in the south...
Strength and Honour |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.11.19 10:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir You think that those changes are insufficient? Think again. Without crippling cap/speed bonuses new ammo will be used in almost any fight, where you will be shooting at larger and/or webbed target. +10% dmg is quite a lot. I would say that it's even enough to not bother about 30% tracking penalty.
As a blaster user, i must say that almost nothing is worth the tracking penalty.
Indeed.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.11.19 12:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle I haven't seen any word from CCP regarding a hybrid fix on the forum, and even tho i only tried them first a year ago, i've heard they are in this "broken" state since the nano nerf. I wouldn't count on a hybrid fix in the near future, especially not in the next expansion, but i'd be glad if i was wrong.
CCP never says anything that can be used against them any more so no wonder they are taking the 5th on the subject. Community bias/focus is however strongly in favour of it and that has been a solid indicator of previous changes. QED.
Think of how/when they did the projectile overhaul. It was slapped onto the Dominion expansion, almost as "an extra" if you will, I'd wager that the entire thing had been scrubbed if we behaved like ******s during discussion which for some reason very few did Probably not in December patch but high chance of next one in my opinion.
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran The new conflag for zealots vs anything larger than hac size(hi, drakes) is just a sick, sick boost.
Zealot Online, hi.
Compare it to current navy crystals and there is no boost. You get the ~10% damage increase and trade some EM for Thermal .. against Drakes you are probably still better off using faction.
Oddly enough, the change towards more Thermal is actually a direct counter to the Zealots themselves with the resist hole of Amarr T2 .. how clever is that
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.28 07:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Also a massive boost to zealots.
Even without the Aurora changes, it is a bit of an undeserved boost to Amarr, who are the only race who can really make proper, full use of different ammo types using rapid ammo changes.
I have not been able to get on sisi to look, but I don't think Aurora was changed at all. Gleam is crap, will be crap, and will always be crap.
Conflag is only good in a few specific situations. Battleship on battleship with scrams/webs it can be used over navy multi. Harb can use it when it's up against another battlecruiser, but with the other shortrange ammo being boosted I don't see the issue. Pulse zealots can make use of it as long as they stay right at the edge of it's range and nobody is moving very much and the target is big and fat, but a zealot should never be that close anyway since it's only in its element when it's at scorch range or greater.
The only small gun ship that can use conflag would be a coercer, thanks to the tracking bonus, but navy multi would still be better against afterburning frigates. FYI, a gatling pulse punisher CAN'T hit an afterburning rifter in a tight orbit even with multi while webbed.
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Eve Orwell
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.29 01:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Zealot Online, hi.
Well ask PL what they think about your "Zealots online" when they found some BS fleets from a well known RP alliance in the south...
you mean pulse abbadons?
amarr online, close enough
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Ziester
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.11.29 03:13:00 -
[50]
Thing is they can't make both ammo types ( Faction / T2 ) on an even ground because ppl would then go for the cheapest, might as well remove the most expensive one from the game if that ever happens.
Faction > T2 : Go Faction, T2 suck, just buy T2 long range ammo. Faction = T2 ? Go cheapest, bury the other type and let's not talk about it ever again. Faction < T2 ? Completely remove faction ammo from the game
Either case, one type is screwed anyway.
I'd say give T2 short range ammo their faction counterparts stats, leave T2 long range as it is, then get rid of faction ammo entirely. ----------
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St'oto
freelancers inc -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.11.29 03:18:00 -
[51]
As of last night on the Test server the run of the mill Gankthron + Fed navy ammo ****d the ****e out of the same Gankthron + void. By about 100+ points of damage. Again exact same fits. So either the patch has not been updated on sisi or you guys are smoking some heavy chronic.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.01 08:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ziester I'd say give T2 short range ammo their faction counterparts stats, leave T2 long range as it is, then get rid of faction ammo entirely.
Currently, the close-range high-damage ammo has its own niche (worse range and tracking but higher damage than faction). How many engagements fall into that niche is another question.
The problem with long-range high-damage ammo (Javelin, Gleam, Quake) is that it's worthless in every respect compared to faction (Antimatter, Multifrequency, Fusion/EMP/Phased Plasma). It gets abysmal optimal and tracking and still does less damage than faction, which limits its usefulness to pve at best.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.01 09:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: St'oto As of last night on the Test server the run of the mill Gankthron + Fed navy ammo ****d the ****e out of the same Gankthron + void. By about 100+ points of damage. Again exact same fits. So either the patch has not been updated on sisi or you guys are smoking some heavy chronic.
Well people didn't use void in a time they had 400% better tracking at web range, go figure... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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xplosiv
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Posted - 2010.12.01 09:32:00 -
[54]
Just to sum this up for every 1. New ammo = Zealot buff and Blaster boats not improved in ANY useable way.
GO CCP YOU LISTEN GOOD.
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