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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:06:00 -
[1]
Being around for a quite a while on and off, you often see lots of changes. Structure resists being one of them (they didn't technically exist for quite a while) and the onset of DC units becoming a defacto module in PVP (and some PVE) setups is another.
Now, here we have a module that due to changes in the game, has become pretty much essential to include in your fits, there's a number of posts on this forum with some pilots even going as far to say that'd refuse to fly without one.
That in itself should cause some thoughts of concern, but unlike scrams (and webs to an extent, but both being near essential for PVP) which also have detrimental factors (ie, to use one means you're in range of having it used on you for the most part), the module goes into both PVP and PVE realms and really has no negative effect barring taking a slot up which could be used for a gank mod.
Then there's also the awesome power it wields:
1) It's a resist module with a whooping 50% boost to every resistance. 2) Its resist bonuses for shield and armour don't count in the stacking equations. 3) It uses 1 unit of cap every 30 seconds, essentially meaning it's passive.
Point 1) screams overpowered when you consider that no other module (even faction) offers that sort of bonus. The closest ones are the active hardeners, which not only take up more power per cycle and have shorter ones as well, only boost a single resist. Granted, there's no other way to harden up your structure (whatcha playing at CCP?) but even so, on it's own that screams that it's far too powerful for a resist mod.
Now, onto the second point. It makes no sense really, granted, it's not a massive bonus because of the fairly small percentage involved, but it's still at odds with the apparent design of tanking where adding too many tanking modules is penalised.
Finally, point 3, this actually ties into my comments on point 1, it's a massive bonus that doesn't cost anything. Yeah, sure you can only fit one, but it's such a boon to a ship that giving up a low slot (which are less vital that mids) is a no-brainer, and as mentioned, when compared to the other hardeners available for shield and armour, it does far too much.
Thing is, despite this post so far reading like a whine about an OP module, I'm actually more concerned with the fact that it's become an essential module and removes freedom of choice with regards to your fit. You pretty much have to fit a DC to your ship now for PVP (and it helps with PVE armour tanks) because if you don't you're at a serious disadvantge.
I'd like to see that changed. I'd like the freedom back to put whatever I feel in my low slots, not what's dictated by the nature of one module.
However, I'm not quite sure how to do that.
Do you remove its non stacking bonus which'll only have a small effect? Do you remove its structure bonus which'll make it pretty much useless? Do you up its cap use and lower its cycle time which'll simply remove it from frigs and maybe cruisers, but leave it still essential on BS's. How about moving it to a mid slot, which not only puts it on the same level as the structure repping modules, but also puts it in direct competition with PVP essentials, is that the answer?
Eve is meant to be all about choice, whether it be about what you do or how you do it, it's about choice. DC's go against that by being far too good to not use and so a choice is taken away.
It would be a shame if that doesn't change.
O people of the Eve Online forums, thoughts and opinions?
NB: Long post is long. Ignore any small spelling or grammar mistakes please. Chribba has lovely legs and Oveur needs to post more again. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:09:00 -
[2]
Yay, another stealth nerf to Gallente!
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Berendas
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:14:00 -
[3]
Damage Controls are fine, stop being bad.
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:16:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Buzzmong Being around for a quite a while on and off, you often see lots of changes. Structure resists being one of them O people of the Eve Online forums, thoughts and opinions?
Your post is bad and you should feel bad.
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xxxak
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:26:00 -
[5]
You are wrong about nerfing the DC and here is why:
Ships in EVE already die too fast.
Back in the day, 1v1 2v2 was more common. Ships could use active tanks, etc.
Today, huge blobs are the norm. Frankly, I don't think that is going away. A "small" roam is 15-20 ships in my part of town.
With DPS like that, a DC allows a ship to live just long enough for the other gang to target the hostiles. Anything less is rediculous.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:42:00 -
[6]
Combat record for Buzzmong Kills Losses 12-----15
shut up
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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Buzzmong on 15/11/2010 22:07:13
Originally by: Lady Spank Combat record for Buzzmong Kills Losses 12-----15
shut up
You've found out my industrial/mission character isn't a pvp alt. Nice investigation work there
Anyway, all the responses so far haven't argued the point that because it's a good module, you have to fit one because everyone else does, therefore essentially denying you a low slot.
Arguably the one post that touched on why it's required as it currently works is indicitive of another problem in Eve, blob warfare, didn't actually touch on if the mod is a problem or not. |
knickersoffalot
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: xxxak You are wrong about nerfing the DC and here is why:
Ships in EVE already die too fast.
Back in the day, 1v1 2v2 was more common. Ships could use active tanks, etc.
Today, huge blobs are the norm. Frankly, I don't think that is going away. A "small" roam is 15-20 ships in my part of town.
With DPS like that, a DC allows a ship to live just long enough for the other gang to target the hostiles. Anything less is rediculous.
+1
This tbh, I gave up on pvp sometime ago, I loved small gang roams, being able to go out on a roam as a pair, due to the blob nature that became eve, i gave it up for station spinning and eve has become more of a chat tool for me, sucks dont it,
If only they would introduce systems where the alliance tourny rule set were in place now that would be right up my street!
Blobs i dont do Blobs it's boring!
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Buzzmong herp derpderpder hurf blurf.
oh for pete's sake.
if you want to nerf damage controls, then nerf all gun's damage by 50%. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Buzzmong herp derpderpder hurf blurf.
oh for pete's sake.
if you want to nerf damage controls, then nerf all gun's damage by 50%.
Or he could just follow Lady Spanks advice, that would be the best solution all round tbh.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Buzzmong herp derpderpder hurf blurf.
oh for pete's sake.
if you want to nerf damage controls, then nerf all gun's damage by 50%.
Or he could just follow Lady Spanks advice, that would be the best solution all round tbh.
yeah that too, but considering that 'tis be an obvious alt, then blunt force is never too much. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Buzzmong Anyway, all the responses so far haven't argued the point that because it's a good module, you have to fit one because everyone else does, therefore essentially denying you a low slot.
Arguably the one post that touched on why it's required as it currently works is indicitive of another problem in Eve, blob warfare, didn't actually touch on if the mod is a problem or not.
How about this: DCs are fine because they benefit every player of the game equally. Because it takes a negligible amount of fitting space and resources and you can only fit one, they're essentially universally accessible and self-balanced. The resists they offer to shields and armor is less than a second stacking penalized Invuln or EANM. They offer a level of wiggle room and margin of error to new players, who would get discouraged by constantly dying in seconds if they didn't exist.
Most importantly, because DCs aren't always mandatory. There are several ships, notably the Vagabond, than get along just fine without them. Even carebears tend to drop the DC for more useful things once they get the hang of their preferred PVE method.
And last but not least: because you're the only person I have ever heard in my years of playing EVE to complain about Damage Controls.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.15 23:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Seriously Bored ED: I forgot the single most important reason: Because fighting while you ship is bursting into flames looks really cool, and Damage Controls let you do that longer.
it's like the ship goes into "RAGETRAIN!" mode and all that ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Footoo Rama
Gallente Beyond Control.
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Posted - 2010.11.15 23:08:00 -
[14]
Anyone want odds that his main flies mostly drakes?? Sry man but if so fly a real ship, that can actually do dmg and not set with a massive tank. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!" |
Commoner
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.11.15 23:30:00 -
[15]
If you remember how bad damage controls were beforehand, you wouldn't want CCP to ever nerf them again.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.11.15 23:54:00 -
[16]
People are still flying the Taranis. This is wrong and should be corrected as Gallente ships do not belong in my Eve. That is all.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.11.16 00:04:00 -
[17]
There are many fits that lack a DCU and which would be hurt by swapping out a damage mod for it. Vagabond, for example. Vargur for another. I never fit a DCU to my Phantasm. 3 Heat Sinks were a better fit. If you armor tank your mission boat in high sec, why fit one? An extra hardener for the NPC damage type is a much better option - or a damage mod.
DCU is far from a required mod in PvP or PvE.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.11.16 00:49:00 -
[18]
The DCU is just another of many useful mods you can use. What is there to nerf... other than the OP that is?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.11.16 00:53:00 -
[19]
You should question yourself WHY.
There is no WHY.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.11.16 00:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Buzzmong
1) It's a resist module with a whooping 50% boost to every resistance.
Very wrong!
The bonus to shield resistances is only -12.5 for a T2 DC, less than half of what a T2 Invulnerability Field gives. Granted, there's no stacking penalty, but if anything, CCP should look into increasing the DC's bonus to shield resists.
Currently ii helps armour tankers a lot more than it helps shield tankers. I'm not too happy about that. For armour tankers, fitting a DC2 is a no-brainer. Fit it regardless of what you fly, on any combat ship.
-- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.11.16 01:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Commoner If you remember how bad damage controls were beforehand, you wouldn't want CCP to ever nerf them again.
What were they like before they got changed, and how long ago was it?
-- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.16 01:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
ED: I forgot the single most important reason: Because fighting while you ship is bursting into flames looks really cool, and Damage Controls let you do that longer.
This. It's sweet, especially on faster ships. Zigzagging around trying to lose a ship in the smoke trail ftw.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2010.11.16 01:34:00 -
[23]
It's so OP that I don't fit it to my Caldari PvE ships. I would also not fit it to any PvE ships that don't need the extra hull buffer.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2010.11.16 01:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Buzzmong
1) It's a resist module with a whooping 50% boost to every resistance.
Very wrong!
The bonus to shield resistances is only -12.5 for a T2 DC, less than half of what a T2 Invulnerability Field gives. Granted, there's no stacking penalty, but if anything, CCP should look into increasing the DC's bonus to shield resists.
Currently ii helps armour tankers a lot more than it helps shield tankers. I'm not too happy about that. For armour tankers, fitting a DC2 is a no-brainer. Fit it regardless of what you fly, on any combat ship.
It's less effective than a third Invuln II, and if you're passive shield tanking it's worse than a PDU II unless you're fitting for max buffer.
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Fuzz McFluff
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Posted - 2010.11.16 02:10:00 -
[25]
Nerf forum posters that want nurfs.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.11.16 02:11:00 -
[26]
Quote: 1) It's a resist module with a whooping 50% boost to every resistance.
Ridiculous exaggerations, best sign of any stupid post and/or troll. Didn't bother reading past here. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.11.16 02:45:00 -
[27]
cry moar op
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.16 04:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Buzzmong Edited by: Buzzmong on 15/11/2010 22:07:13
Originally by: Lady Spank Combat record for Buzzmong Kills Losses 12-----15
shut up
You've found out my industrial/mission character isn't a pvp alt. Nice investigation work there
so post with your main and put some credibility behind the post
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Kuhn Arashi
Caldari Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.11.16 08:33:00 -
[29]
God damn, so many people got owned by owned by this troll
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.16 08:45:00 -
[30]
+1 yeah remove armor resists from it
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