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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
700
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:39:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:more talking... we are also planning on adding more delay (not sure how much).... I'm about to start making those changes :) Option to enable/disable and adding configurable delay would make this feature totally awesome and cool
Edited for reference:
CCP karkur wrote:Both Soundwave and I have already addressed the questions everyone is asking: CCP karkur wrote:We have talked this over, and we will add the ability to disable the tooltips. I hope you guys will still use them, but if you really don-¦t want them, you will be able to turn them off (so it's new awesome tooltips or no tooltips).
I hope that will work for you guys :) CCP Soundwave wrote:Being able to set a delay may even be enough. Adding the option to disable a single function might be a bit overkill with a proper delay. We are looking into this (as Soundwave says, we might end up going just with a delay, we'll see tomorrow if we feel we need both) |
Regan Rotineque
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:41:00 -
[122] - Quote
@ Karkur
Do not despair - some of us do like this change :)
At first I did not like this, but now after using it a bit, I do like it to some extent.
I think a delay would be good for the pew pew ships - most of us that have played awhile know what everything is. That being said, sometimes you do forget.
Where I did love the new feature was on my miners - seeing the crystal damage was awesome !!
Would it be possible to see the yield?
Cheers
~R~
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
26
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:52:00 -
[123] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:@ Karkur
Do not despair - some of us do like this change :)
At first I did not like this, but now after using it a bit, I do like it to some extent.
I think a delay would be good for the pew pew ships - most of us that have played awhile know what everything is. That being said, sometimes you do forget.
Where I did love the new feature was on my miners - seeing the crystal damage was awesome !!
Would it be possible to see the yield?
Cheers
~R~
I like the change and the information is great to have, but when I'm mousing between modules and locked ships/items (yes I don't use hotkeys enough but thats another matter) with the proximity of the locked ships and my ships modules as I mouse between them the tool tips popup over what I'm doing leading to a moment where I don't have a clear view of what I'm doing even if it is just for a very brief moment. I'm not quite sure what the solution is, turning them off entirely is a bit drastic but its the only solution off the top of my head so I'm not constantly distracted by them.
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Van derGraff
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:19:00 -
[124] - Quote
Can we turn the fukkinannoyin tooltips off for fux sake.Great to help beginners learn modules,but after a few years playing,no not at all.Switch on, switch off its easy.More UI uselessness. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
199
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:22:00 -
[125] - Quote
308. That sure is a lot of deeps. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
125
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:23:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote: (as Soundwave says, we might end up going just with a delay, we'll see tomorrow if we feel we need both)
Tell me why?... Put a disable function in for those that don't want random crap popping up ever... You have all this customization in the ui, but a simple disable function... No, that's just far too much customization... Put the disable function in...
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Regan Rotineque
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:30:00 -
[127] - Quote
Lets give them a day to think it over :)
Rather than rush to a modification they should take a few moments to mull it over. Good feedback in this thread will help that deliberation.
So far its
1 - turn the damn thing off 2 - quick delay would be nice 3 - long delay would be nice 4 - some toggle to set the delay would be nice
as you can see in only a short amount of time lots of ideas of come up.....so lets give em the benefit of the doubt and get it done right :)
Thanks CCP for listening
~R~ |
Jess Maine
Black Lance Fidelas Constans
12
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Posted - 2012.08.08 21:32:00 -
[128] - Quote
In hi-sec, flying Raven. Disregard input. |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
428
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:08:00 -
[129] - Quote
I can't imagine why people activate the guns with the mouse. I always have a finger above F1, even when I'm docked. "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
428
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:10:00 -
[130] - Quote
Jess Maine wrote:In hi-sec, flying Raven. Disregard input.
Ohhh.. that's why they don't mind using the mouse, they are not in a hurry to kill the hi-sec NPC mission rats.... that explains it. "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
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Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:28:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Being able to set a delay may even be enough. Adding the option to disable a single function might be a bit overkill with a proper delay.
If the "proper delay" can be set to something like 60 seconds it would effectively be like stopping it altogether so that wouldn't be a bad thing. |
Kallie Rae
NorCorp Security AAA Citizens
19
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:34:00 -
[132] - Quote
I think they are awesome, though not perfect. The modules that doesn't really contain any usefully info, like the mwd could need some work, either by adding some info or maybe try to tone down the size of the tooltip somehow. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1431
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:40:00 -
[133] - Quote
I'm liking the new tooltip, it's a nice improvement.
However, I also agree that it is a bit too big, not because of the size of the box nor the icons, but the spacing in between and the placement of information/texts. It looked more like a big popup rather than a tooltip/quick summary as it is right now. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
44
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:44:00 -
[134] - Quote
This isn't something that should even be under consideration. Have you honestly not learned yet, CCP?
Options are the life-blood of a user interface. Make it both capable of running on a hover delay and being disabled entirely, and then the only people left complaining are the same people who would complain are the ones you know you cannot please.
It's really not much to ask from players in a game where having the right information visible is the difference between success and failure, taking control of the display of this information out of the players hands isn't a good idea.
For some people, those learning the game or who do not wish to recalculate their missile distances or so on the tooltips are desirable information and offer a good way to learn and absorb this information. For those of us who have played with the same skillset and modules for four years, seeing that information is just an obstruction and not needed, no matter how long I hover over a module.
I'm sure you get this deep down, but please don't start lapsing back into Quickest-Fix-Wins when considering solutions. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Cartaphilius
Brotherhood of Sleep
0
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Posted - 2012.08.08 22:48:00 -
[135] - Quote
Um, hasn't the player base been begging to have an option to turn off these tool-tips since they were introduced? |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:10:00 -
[136] - Quote
[quote=FloppieTheBanjoClownI'd suggest an option for a smaller version without the icons.[/quote] This.
We like spreadsheets in space. Give us the info we need, not shiny icons and empty space. |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1210
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:14:00 -
[137] - Quote
I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think.
The tooltips are bigger than the old ones, but not that much bigger... we did talk about whether we should put more delay on them, but then because of consistency and stuff, and the fact that the old tooltips never seemed to be a problem, we decided not to do anything for the time being. The new tooltips pop in just like the old one did, but I think the new ones maybe just demand more attention with the images and all.
I (and many more people) went on vacation, but I was still reading the forums and replying, so it annoys me a bit when some people say we don't read the feedback. Yes, there were a few people saying they wanted more delay and to hide them, but as we all know, people have different opinions and others liked it. If I had gotten the feeling so many people would be this mad, I would have hit pause on my (well-deserved) vacation and gone to work to make any changes needed.
So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues? CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Regan Rotineque
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:23:00 -
[138] - Quote
Your prompt attention to this matter is greatly appreciated !
Thanks karkur
~R~ |
Jess Maine
Black Lance Fidelas Constans
12
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:28:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think. The tooltips are bigger than the old ones, but not that much bigger... we did talk about whether we should put more delay on them, but then because of consistency and stuff, and the fact that the old tooltips never seemed to be a problem, we decided not to do anything for the time being. The new tooltips pop in just like the old ones did, but I think the new ones maybe just demand more attention with the images and all. I (and many more people) went on vacation, but I was still reading the forums and replying, so it annoys me a bit when some people say we don't read the feedback. Yes, there were a few people saying they wanted more delay and to hide them, but as we all know, people have different opinions and others liked it. If I had gotten the feeling so many people would be this mad, I would have hit pause on my (well-deserved) vacation and gone to work to make any changes needed. So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues? (edit: and Cray47 is correct, there is an alignment issue with the "max flight range" text because I accidentally added an extra linebreak )
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really? |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
339
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think.
thing is i get this is great for nub pilots. but tbh its just anoying for many people a 1 sec delay on anoyance is still gonna result in anoyance.
1 tick box on/off and what ever delay you like to add is teh way to go.
side note, i read the csm minuets and noticed something about the new UI thing and how there is a need to listern player feed back... when exactly does that start to happen? OMG when can i get a pic here
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Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
44
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:29:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues? Just give it hearty consideration as to what you go with. I understand not wanting to spend more time on the issue than you can get away with but this is one of those things that gets more annoying the more times you encounter it. There are a large quantity of people playing the game who simply don't need something reminding them every 1-2sec on hover what the range of their missiles, etc, are.
We need to continue moving to less clutter and less worrying about where our mouse is hovered over, so you will forgive me if I do not understand why disabling is suddenly getting pushed away as an option, seeing as you picked up fairly quick earlier in the thread that it was in high demand.
There's information we need to know, but over time that need subsides and becomes redundant. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1782
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:32:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think. The tooltips are bigger than the old ones, but not that much bigger... we did talk about whether we should put more delay on them, but then because of consistency and stuff, and the fact that the old tooltips never seemed to be a problem, we decided not to do anything for the time being. The new tooltips pop in just like the old ones did, but I think the new ones maybe just demand more attention with the images and all. I (and many more people) went on vacation, but I was still reading the forums and replying, so it annoys me a bit when some people say we don't read the feedback. Yes, there were a few people saying they wanted more delay and to hide them, but as we all know, people have different opinions and others liked it. If I had gotten the feeling so many people would be this mad, I would have hit pause on my (well-deserved) vacation and gone to work to make any changes needed. So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues? (edit: and Cray47 is correct, there is an alignment issue with the "max flight range" text because I accidentally added an extra linebreak )
I think a delay is a healthy alternative to the code bloat that options creates. Rock on.
Also, come on everyone. Buy a Naga and stop clicking FFS.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1217
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
Jess Maine wrote:Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really? Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier today But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.
Let's not panic people... we are looking into this CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
615
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
FFS...
Gas this thread.
Please? Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
44
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:39:00 -
[145] - Quote
I don't care if this post gets nuked.
Karkur you are such a god-damn cocktease. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
339
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:44:00 -
[146] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Jess Maine wrote:Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really? Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier today But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it. Let's not panic people... we are looking into this
no panic,, but please add that code. i really do not need to see the same message for hours in a fleet fight OMG when can i get a pic here
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2588
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:44:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP should try running an active-module heavy ship solo in PVP where they have to monitor heat damage, ammo/charge use and cycle timers and see if they dont think an option to disable this is necessary.
It most definitely is. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1782
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:48:00 -
[148] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:CCP should try running an active-module heavy ship solo in PVP where they have to monitor heat damage, ammo/charge use and cycle timers and see if they dont think an option to disable this is necessary.
It most definitely is.
The thing about it is that if they give you the option to turn them off, you won't get any tooltips. This includes the exact readout for heat damage. In that case, you gain no benefit from moving your mouse over the module - and you should stop clicking.
In the case where they add a delay, the information you want will require holding the mouse still over the module for a long time. Thus, any information you wanted to get from moving your mouse over the module is mostly useless or unavailable. And you should stop clicking.
In the case where they leave it with no delay, you get the information immediately but have to deal with a popup. And you should stop clicking.
Basically, stop clicking.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2589
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:56:00 -
[149] - Quote
stop clicking sounds very amusing and trite but it serves no practical purpose when you rely on clicks to time your modules...
you could suggest "keep your mouse off the buttons till you need to press them" but it shows a lack of understanding of just how much micro-management relies on instinct and reflex and not on concious cognitive processes.
When the UI works against your own natural intuition there is a problem.
This problem could easily be resolved by allowing options. You could also easily implement "none" "classic" and neo" style tooltips. I know this doesnt make sense in a designers sense but this is not just a UI for prettiness, it is a videogame where you need to be able to make quick decisions.
Again, in fleets this is often easy to pass off as unimportant but for those of us that work our damndest against larger numbers and cheap gang tactics it is imperative that we have no needless clutter getting in our way.
~elite PVP~ etc. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1782
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Posted - 2012.08.08 23:59:00 -
[150] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:stop clicking sounds very amusing and trite but it serves no practical purpose when you rely on clicks to time your modules...
you could suggest "keep your mouse off the buttons till you need to press them" but it shows a lack of understanding of just how much micro-management relies on instinct and reflex and not on concious cognitive processes.
When the UI works against your own natural intuition there is a problem.
This problem could easily be resolved by allowing options. You could also easily implement "none" "classic" and neo" style tooltips. I know this doesnt make sense in a designers sense but this is not just a UI for prettiness, it is a videogame where you need to be able to make quick decisions.
Again, in fleets this is often easy to pass off as unimportant but for those of us that work our damndest against larger numbers and cheap gang tactics it is imperative that we have no needless clutter getting in our way.
~elite PVP~ etc.
No, I mean stop clicking the modules.
Ever.
Here: http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/guide-to-strafing-movement-and-keybindings/
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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