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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
lachrymus
Czerka.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff... |
Alice Saki
1637
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game. Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, GINGER PRIDE xD Oh and PICKLES! |
Lexmana
668
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
It is a submarine. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
288
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
You know this isn't really a spaceship sim right? EvE physics != real life.
|
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
591
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
This topic is new and exciting. |
lachrymus
Czerka.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stop! You're breaking my illusions... |
Azurius Dante
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trying to decide between him being a troll or a muppet....
|
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
795
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
We have submarine physics. Subs must stop to warp, everyone knows that. |
Astro Nomy
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Also. When in warp, why do the engines keep going? |
Metal Icarus
A.M. Rebellion
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Like an engine turning a smidge when you rev it, when you kick on the warp drive it has so much potential kinetic energy being transfered that when it transfers energy to propulsion it instantly nullifies all current kinetic energy because the warp drive rotates in the opposite direction of the ship's vector.
That is also why your ship stops when propulsion is deactivated.
Or you could make up your own reasoning IDK.
EDIT: You have to accelerate to get into warp because the RPM of the warp drive is directly proportional to your current velocity. When you are not in warp, you warp drive is still spinning like a flywheel made of spacetime. |
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
1. a wizard did it.
2. so we don't spill our beer. Fear God and Thread Nought |
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
189
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like that it stops before it warps. Aside from watching my speed-o (which sometimes freezes up and doesnt work), its how I know when I'm about to warp.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
Nirnias Stirrum
Insidious Design
271
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LA LA |
Taranius De Consolville
Lost Dawn Chaos Corrosive.
190
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
I hate to break this to you
I really am sorry
This hurts me deeply to have to do this to sumone
But you will find out the truth eventually
I feel it is my duty
Again i am sorry
But
It's a game... |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2169
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here, let me fix this:
New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.
This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.
See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Point 2 is really annoying because it makes it impossible to passive align upwards.
:trollface: |
lachrymus
Czerka.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Here, let me fix this:
New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.
This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.
See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent.
Hmm, you're beginning to convince me. Except asteroid and planet movements aren't consistent either. Noticed how 'roids and 'bergs sort of roll around on their own? And ships kind of wobble about gently when left untended? Planets don't do that...
But I don't really care - I can live with it. But my ships on the other hand, I do care about.
Just don't tell me it's only a game or the doctors will come and take me away :) |
nat longshot
solo and loveing it Windowlicking Ninja Turtles
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
on number 1 warp engines are not what you think they make a warp bubble around your ship "star trek" or as in eve make a warp tunnel both need reg. engines to push the ship though them that's way your normal engines say running.
number 2 space in three dimensional yes but the game levels every out to the system plan level thats why you ship levels out. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
804
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Because obviously Newton's laws apply when you're traveling at faster than light speeds. |
lachrymus
Czerka.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
But the things I'm talking about happen below warp speed.
Come on, we all know how warp engines work don't we? Damn, where's Scotty when you need him? |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2174
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:Hmm, you're beginning to convince me. Except asteroid and planet movements aren't consistent either. Noticed how 'roids and 'bergs sort of roll around on their own? And ships kind of wobble about gently when left untended? Planets don't do that...
As I said, the greater the body's gravity field, the less it is affected by the "fluid" effects of this universe.
The tendency of craft to "level out" and have an appearance of bobbing is due to space having a "current" which isn't well-explained by science at this point. Prevailing theories suggest that there is a "dark wind" of undetectable matter creating this gentle flow in which the ships bob, or some sort of "great attractor" which is constantly pulling on the fluid of space. It's not enough to cause objects larger than subatomic particles to drift with this current, but it does cause subtle movement in things that would otherwise sit stationary, "stuck" in the fluid.
The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Jantunen the Infernal
O C C U P Y Tribal Band
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
EVE happens in an alternative universe, so things that apply IRL may not apply in EVE. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2174
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:But the things I'm talking about happen below warp speed.
Come on, we all know how warp engines work don't we? Damn, where's Scotty when you need him?
Fitting inside this hastily-created alternate physics model of mine, I envision the warp drive as creating a pocket of "vacuum" around the ship, essentially pushing the fluid away. This would cause the fluid to momentarily become more dense around the ship, causing it to stop just before the warp is fully engaged and the bubble of vacuum moves through space with you inside it. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Doctor ForumAlt
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
This will explain it better |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
246
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
The warp start animation is still making me sick. I pray that CCP changes it some day. New inventory: Please bring back the old system this is a usability nightmare. |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
535
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
God is a sausage. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
299
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
its changing engines, from sub to warp. |
Metal Icarus
A.M. Rebellion
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Here, let me fix this:
New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.
The "stop before warp" effect is caused by the warp engines "bending" the fluid space around them so they can travel at FTL speeds. The effect causes a brief moment where the space directly in front of the ship becomes impassably dense, causing your craft to come to a stop before the warp tunnel is formed and you are propelled down it.
This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.
See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent.
So i tried to work with Physics in our universe, explaining how the warp drive component of every ship in the game affects your ship. You made your own universe where unicorns and dragons could exist and you get the likes... (then again, who doesn't like unicorns and dragons?)
The "paralell universe" crap is such and easy excuse of an explanation that I could sum up your post in three words:
Its a game.
Srs, try to put some effort into it.
He said newton's first law, physics in our universe was OP's question.
(being spacemad at work and getting paid to be spacemad is best spacemad) |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
1. Stop trying to apply real physics to this game. 2. Space in EvE functions with the properties of a liquid medium. 3. Warp drive, in theory, has no "thrust" or "motion" component. The warp drive expands space behind the vessel and contracts space in front of the vessel. You are essentially making the space in front of the vessel smaller such that (for example) 1 AU was compressed to approximately 1 inch of actual distance. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2331
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
As far as coming to rest level with the rest of the system, you could look at that a few different ways.
1: It's part of how your nav computer is programmed to simplify navigation issues and collision avoidance, made standard practice in all systems but only really becoming an issue in systems with high volumes of space traffic.
2: The drives that power the ship could be tied into the gravitational plane of the system and exert subtle forces on the ship which tends to pull it into the same alignment as the majority of the orbital bodies in the system.
3: Invisible space whales messing with your head. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Did you go bananas when you warped through a station? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
251
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Here, let me fix this:
New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.
The "stop before warp" effect is caused by the warp engines "bending" the fluid space around them so they can travel at FTL speeds. The effect causes a brief moment where the space directly in front of the ship becomes impassably dense, causing your craft to come to a stop before the warp tunnel is formed and you are propelled down it.
This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.
See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent.
A reasonable explanation, one that makes sense. Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place. |
Riknarr
Midhalla
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 16:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
this made sense to me |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1650
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lololol you think physics.... |
Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
85
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
They talked about this in the past.
Newtonian would just be boring as is theoretically possible for a game.
So it's... "Newtonian Lite", I guess. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
217
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
THIS is what breaks the illusion for you? Not rockets flying through ships or asteroids or stations to hit their target? Not lasers/bullets doing the same? Not the inability to point your ship just in any random direction and engage the warp drive? Not ships doing 3000 km/s and crashing into solid objects (and much larger ships) and harmlessly bouncing away? Etc., etc.
EVE is so full of these that to fix them they might as well get started on EVE II.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
1845
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Space is a liquid. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1256
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place. Whoa whoa.
What does the 1400mm artillery have to do with this. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Crunchy Crunchy Peregrine Nation
72
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 17:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
This game is science fiction. Read the second word. Then read it again. And again. As many times as it takes to convince you that real world science has no place here.
My brother is always making smarmy comments like this when I'm playing EVE. It gets annoying real fast. http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/
Sojourn, a newbie's EVE blog. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2177
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:So i tried to work with Physics in our universe, explaining how the warp drive component of every ship in the game affects your ship. You made your own universe where unicorns and dragons could exist and you get the likes...
it helps to be a Clown. People like clowns.
Seriously, I got the idea from Stephen Baxter's story Raft, which is a part of the larger Xeelee Sequence universe. It presents the idea of multiple universes in which the constants of physics vary.
The "paralell universe" crap is such and easy excuse of an explanation that I could sum up your post in three words:
Metal Icarus wrote:He said newton's first law, physics in our universe was OP's question.
Yeah, but I've never been able to work out a scenario that really fits in our universe. Besides, the whole point of that was to get the OP to throw out the notion of making game mechanics fit into science and instead accept them as their own universe. A roundabout way of saying "it's just a game, accept it for what it is." The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2177
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:A reasonable explanation, one that makes sense. Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place.
I just take that to be artistic license for the sake of not having to do ballistics modeling. Turrets all shoot in a straight line because it's easier to render.
Though one could use the same "fluid space" mechanics I mentioned to justify why projectiles don't keep flying forever and lasers dissipate over short distances. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Immortals of New Eden Rebel Alliance of New Eden
64
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:Come on, we all know how warp engines work don't we? Damn, where's Scotty when you need him? He's retired. |
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
47
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cause CCP can't code... funny on that reply too a get a 404 on the forums... fail epic fail. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
152
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
MY IMMERSION |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1186
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 19:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
1) the creation of the active warp field puts an enormous amount of subspace drag upon the ship, bringing it to a stop before the lightspeed engines can take over (completely made up by me, just pointing out scifi excuses exist)
2) server is based on vectors and so a stationary object has no direction. Not sure if this could be corrected with some programmer skills. |
TorquePSA
Decadent Behavior Black Sun Nation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 19:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
... or since it takes light 9 minutes to travel 1 AU, and my ships can go 5-19 AU a second (2,500x - 10,000x the speed of light), why can I see anywhere except directly in front of me, very briefly, as the infinitesimal mass of photons hits my eyes with the force of a thousand nuclear bombs?
Because physics are the bane of fairy tales. Have fun.
(I realize that photons don't have mass but I submit that (10000 x infinity)^2 is a number large enough to kill you all by itself) |
Metal Icarus
A.M. Rebellion
243
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 20:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
TorquePSA wrote:... or since it takes light 9 minutes to travel 1 AU, and my ships can go 5-19 AU a second (2,500x - 10,000x the speed of light), why can I see anywhere except directly in front of me, very briefly, as the infinitesimal mass of photons hits my eyes with the force of a thousand nuclear bombs?
Because physics are the bane of fairy tales. Have fun.
(I realize that photons don't have mass but I submit that (10000 x infinity)^2 is a number large enough to kill you all by itself)
Photons are a quantum entity, it has mass and no mass at the same time.
EDIT: it depends on your perspective. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1187
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 20:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
TorquePSA wrote:... or since it takes light 9 minutes to travel 1 AU, and my ships can go 5-19 AU a second (2,500x - 10,000x the speed of light), why can I see anywhere except directly in front of me, very briefly, as the infinitesimal mass of photons hits my eyes with the force of a thousand nuclear bombs?
Because physics are the bane of fairy tales. Have fun.
(I realize that photons don't have mass but I submit that (10000 x infinity)^2 is a number large enough to kill you all by itself) This wouldn't be an issue.
Nothing is hitting your eyes.
The real question is, why can we see most everything while at warp? |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
636
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 20:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
eve takes place in a different universe where space has the same physics as earth's water. |
Solania Aurae
Solar Wind Test Friends Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 22:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:TorquePSA wrote:... or since it takes light 9 minutes to travel 1 AU, and my ships can go 5-19 AU a second (2,500x - 10,000x the speed of light), why can I see anywhere except directly in front of me, very briefly, as the infinitesimal mass of photons hits my eyes with the force of a thousand nuclear bombs?
Because physics are the bane of fairy tales. Have fun.
(I realize that photons don't have mass but I submit that (10000 x infinity)^2 is a number large enough to kill you all by itself) This wouldn't be an issue. Nothing is hitting your eyes. The real question is, why can we see most everything while at warp?
This is the only thing that really bothers me now that I've been playing for awhile now. Originally, I let it slide as I figured that this implementation was dramatically more cool looking then staring at blackness or some physcedelic warp tunnel(?).
Now I wouldn't mind a cool new take on the warp tunnel mechanic as far as graphics are concerned. Something with more "punch". Having said that, the current tunnel that has since been updated for Crucible (V3) has a really cool subtle "warping" effect.
|
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Tarn Kugisa
M.I.A.C Corporation
95
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 22:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
WIZARDS WIZARDS EVERYWHERE I Endorse this Product and/or Service Source Recorder-esque tool for EVE |
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 22:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Space is a liquid.
Its aether. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
829
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 22:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
because of falcon a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Togg Bott
One Clone Gang
38
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 22:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game.
its not underwater... its inside a vast space oil deposit |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
314
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
Interesting point: what is more important in a video game?
(1) Suspension of disbelief (a) @ the expense of video game mechanics (b)
OR
(2) Video game mechanics (b) @ the expense of realism (c)
OR
(3) World of Warcraft (d)
1+2=3
Most would say d-c+a=EVE
And I guess you need confirmation the math is right...and maybe it isn't, but so long as the positive outweighs the negative, that is enough for most.
The framework of something doesn't denote importance, it's just the framework. The subject is the subject, and if that is not flawed, then the framework can be without affecting the impact of the subject.
It's analogous to people arguing about the quality of special effects in a motion picture affecting the enjoyment of the film. If the film is good, it is not good because of the special effects, it is good because of the quality of the story telling. If the story telling is pristine, the special effects are completely irrelevant.
As we have emotions, I would argue the enjoyment of a game is more important than any of its components, and especially the framework.
/goes to play Tetris for an hour.
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
257
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:Stop! You're breaking my illusions...
You're under water. You cannot breathe. Wake up! Wake up!! The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures. |
Dersk
90040045
100
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
AN OBJECT AT REST CANNOT BE STOPPED! |
lachrymus
Czerka.
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 18:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
OP here. Thanks all for your encyclopaedic responses. Guess I'll have to live with it as it is... |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
116
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 18:44:00 -
[59] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game.
Funny, when people rabbled about warping through a planet, the phrase 'It's a game' did not satisfy them. Even when given plausible scientific reasons, they still weren't satisfied.
It may be a game, but its a better game when things make sense. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
448
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 18:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Alice Saki wrote:We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game. Funny, when people rabbled about warping through a planet, the phrase 'It's a game' did not satisfy them. Even when given plausible scientific reasons, they still weren't satisfied. It may be a game, but its a better game when things make sense.
Seven out of Four EVE players don't even understand fractions, what hope is there for psychics. If you need a friend call me @ (501) 444-CCNA |
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Cede Forster
EVE University Ivy League
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
yea and also newton is very relevant if you talk about light speed and everything, this makes me sad |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
448
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cede Forster wrote:yea and also newton is very relevant if you talk about light speed and everything, this makes me sad
Better than heavy speed. Takes up less m3. If you need a friend call me @ (501) 444-CCNA |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
629
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
Who? brb |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
187
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
I don't know about you, but the lurch of going through a wormhole in real life always throws me. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Ensign Community Communication Liasions (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
453
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Who?
Guy from science class called Fig Newton, he invented the apple tree. If you need a friend call me @ (501) 444-CCNA |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
629
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Who? Guy from science class called Fig Newton, he invented the apple tree.
I'm sure you're beating him at number of posts !
Also, if it's not a space pilot it's a lie. Eve is true, everything else is a lie, that simple
brb |
Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
1. Why do ships stop before they warp.
-It only appears that the ship is slowing to the viewer as the ship is travelling slower in time then the drone camera, this is a proven General Theory of Relativity effect that the faster you travel the slower your local time becomes especially as you reach c. ..Given that crappy light only goes 173AU a day be glad your internet spaceship doesn't do other weird stuff.
- Kinetic energy of ship could be used to help punch a warp tunnel / tubular spacial wave and overcome its wake created by your Alcubierre warp drive. This would explain why you need to get to speed to use it, which otherwise could only come from the mind of a game developer.
- If you cannot fully turn off this warp drive the spacial wake inertia would explain why you stop when the engines do. It would also be why you have a top speed in a vacuum well below the point where vacuum rocket nozzle velocities can be easily achieved (rockets love vacuums especially Dysons).
- It looks cool
2. Ship attitudes - is easy to explain, people freak out and get horribly confused in 3 dimensions which doesn't make for a fun game.
Newton didn't fly internet spaceships, Einstein wished he did, live the dream you lucky bastard. |
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Immortals of New Eden Rebel Alliance of New Eden
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
The only kind of Newtons I care about are fig ones. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
Because ... this is EVE ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8964
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
a. Because Newtonian physics are horrid for controlling a spaceship outside of pure simulation. b. Because the warp engine creates space-friction. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you
100
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
Newtons first law " Don't sit under an apple tree anymore" |
Link 420
POP NAVY
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 20:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
You forgot to mention:
3) Missiles and Projectiles having a max range. (same law) 4) Ships bouncing off each other and other objects, including planes and stars. 5) Ability to "move" other ships 100 times your ship's weight via the method above. 6) Ability to communicate instantly through several hundred light-years of space. 7) Ability to download your "mind" instantly to a clone several hundred light-years away.
And on a more unrelated subject: The physically possible, but morally questionable Prostitutes and Exotic Dancers, who weigh 50gk and stand 1m tall. (average size of a preteen child)
This question was brought up more times then I can remember, and people usually reply in one of two ways: 1) It's just a game (or some sarcastic variation of the same statement) 2) A logical, sometimes humorous, explanation for the variations. (Covered quite well in this thread by Floppy on page 1)
Personally, I tend to allign with the latter; that way it's not a game imperfection, it's just "lore".
I am rather curious, however, to see if Floppy could find a less disturbing explanation to the above mentioned "morally questionable" abnormality.
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Totalrx
NA No Assholes Silver Twilight Enterprises
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 20:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
I've always looked at the warp sequence like this:
1) Every action the ship makes is pilot commanded, computer controlled (much like the fly-by-wire aircraft we already have IRL).
2) Once the warp sequence is initiated, the computer aligns the ship onto a trajectory path within an acceptable tolerance of elevation and azimuth.
3) The computer uses reverse thrust at all required angles to stop the ship. This ensures that the ship does not continue to drift and possible drift off course before warp.
4) The warp engines engage.
The foundation of this theory of operation is that such actions would be required to avoid hitting known obstacles in the flight path. In game though, we fly through obstacles.....large obstacles like planets and stations. So, it kinda kills the theory lol! |
lachrymus
Czerka.
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Alice Saki wrote:We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game. Funny, when people rabbled about warping through a planet, the phrase 'It's a game' did not satisfy them. Even when given plausible scientific reasons, they still weren't satisfied. It may be a game, but its a better game when things make sense. +1 |
ACE McFACE
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
803
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 07:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?
Also, Its a Game. More like golden syrup "7 pages of people insulting me - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar What s/he (probobly he) meant: "7 pages of people disagreeing with my terrible idea - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
396
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Taranius De Consolville wrote:I hate to break this to you
I really am sorry
This hurts me deeply to have to do this to sumone
But you will find out the truth eventually
I feel it is my duty
Again i am sorry
But
It's a game...
If only more players saw Eve as a game and not some sort of weird ego war. You want fries with that? |
OmniBeton
OmniBeton Metatech
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 08:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
Could you kindly point us to any good book that covers real-life physics of warp travel ? Couldn't find one. |
lachrymus
Czerka.
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 09:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
Hey, it's just a game! But I'd like it to look more believable... |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2240
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 14:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Link 420 wrote:You forgot to mention:
3) Missiles and Projectiles having a max range. (same law) 4) Ships bouncing off each other and other objects, including planes and stars. 5) Ability to "move" other ships 100 times your ship's weight via the method above. 6) Ability to communicate instantly through several hundred light-years of space. 7) Ability to download your "mind" instantly to a clone several hundred light-years away.
3 - the fluidity of space creates drag, which is more pronounced on objects with smaller gravitational fields. So projectiles simply slow to the point they bounce harmlessly off a ship at a certain range. Lasers...I dunno. Refraction caused by the fluid? Sure, that works.
4 & 5 - Signature radius in this game affects physics, so I'll go with the idea that our shields interact with the fluid in some way, creating a sort of elastic shell around the ship allowing it to "bounce" harmlessly off of other objects.
6 & 7 - Yeah, I'm just writing that off as "space is different here, and it lets us do faster-than-light communication." I'm lazy :)
Link 420 wrote:And on a more unrelated subject: The physically possible, but morally questionable Prostitutes and Exotic Dancers, who weigh 50gk and stand 1m tall. (average size of a preteen child) Perhaps we're all that size? This page states that we're living 14,000 years in the future. That's a lot of time for selection, both natural and otherwise, to adjust our bodies.
edit: According to a quick search, 95% of girls reach 1 meter by the time they're 5. So yeah, I'm going with the "we're all short" answer, because the alternative is preschool prostitution. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:Point 2 is really annoying because it makes it impossible to passive align upwards.
No such thing.
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Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2303
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:38:00 -
[81] - Quote
lachrymus wrote:1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?
2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...
If you're attempting to analyze EVE's physics model and these are the two discrepancies you noticed, then I'm pretty sure you slept through high school. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
285
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
Dont understand that gradually resetting to being horizontal thing, wouldn't that have required explicit effort to implement? and it doesnt seem to serve any purpose |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place.
It's not instantaneous, it's just less than one frame. :P |
Hudzen Ten
Diva-Droid International
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:54:00 -
[84] - Quote
The OP is like Comic-Book-Guy emailing TV networks about continuity errors
to quote The Simpsons; "Every time you spot something like this; a wizzard did it"
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Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
181
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
Everyone knows Newton was completely wrong. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
434
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
Soi Mala wrote:Point 2 is really annoying because it makes it impossible to passive align upwards.
:trollface:
Not sure if serious, but just in case:
Passive alignment is a MYTH. EVE's physics engine, Destiny, does not have any variables which indicates which direction a ship is pointing. The direction that your ship is facing is determined by the client and has no bearing on any game mechanic - the server is entirely unaware of which direction your client says your ship is pointing. This is why ships sometimes warp "backwards" or "sideways".
As a consequence, once your ship is standing perfectly still, it takes the same amount of time to enter warp towards any location, regardless of "alignment". This is why using webs can cause a freighter to "insta warp" after jumping through a stargate. |
Noras Ellan
Norian Horizons
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
Space monkeys. What, you didn't know? |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
140
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Soi Mala wrote:Point 2 is really annoying because it makes it impossible to passive align upwards. No such thing.
Soi Mala wrote::Trollface:
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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 17:27:00 -
[89] - Quote
Yeah, lets spend development time on this meaningless crap and not on balancing the game, or updating major content features, or adding new features.
Clearly physics that you don't understand in the first place are the priority. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:29:00 -
[90] - Quote
Spaceships how they work? Freaking Miracles.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fcking-magnets-how-do-they-work |
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