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Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 05:00:00 -
[1]
I have a ship idea today.
When a crime is committed in the real world police investigate and a decent amount of effort is put into capturing the crim, new methods of security are invented to help make life more secure. Now in EVE the opposite happens. Crime is encouraged. Ways of stealing from the innocent are made easier. My idea is of course the counter to these events.
When you look at Cans you see the Jetcan, a can everyone can deploy and use, lasts around an hour or so, holds a massive amount of goods, offers no security, is a fat juicy mark for Can flippers and rightfully so. They take awhile for a miner to fill and with a hold optimized Indy or better is a time consuming but easy profit albeit risky for the miner, Nothing more frustrating tho than filling one just to have it flipped, a good flipper uses 2 characters so the miner has no chance at revenge or becomes the target if they attempt to recover their ore, My idea turns the flipper into the Miners target. (oh and sure there are Giant secure containers at 3k hold space but their just painful to fill compared to a 27k jetcan lol)
My idea is this, a Ship i have dubbed "The Mimic" It looks in every way like a Hulk except it is 1/3rd larger, it has a 14k unoptimized Hold, can equip 3 strip miners and 1 turret. This is not what makes it special however. The Mimics time to shine is with Jetcans. It is not only a Mining ship but a Jetcan flipper hunter. The Mimic can place 4 types of Jetcan in space. First theres your every day Jetcan, 27k space, lasts an hour or so, normal in every way. The Second type of can takes 27k Ore to deploy and then must be filled with further ore. The ore inside the can is hollowed out and fitted with explosive devices. 1 Ore = 1 explosive device doing damage to anyone who loots the can and isnt in the owners fleet or corp. The rarity of the ore in the can determines how explosive it is. A can with 27k Veldspar for example could take out a Rifter while a can full of the highly explosive Mercoxit....well use your imagination there. This can like the first would only last an hour or so as well. The third can is just like the first can except to place it you must have a Giant Secure container in your ships Hold. The can is stripped of its security features and added to a normal Jetcan making it secure. This can like the others only lasts an hour making them expensive to use but secure. The fourth and final can is the real Flipper hunter. Its like the second but cannot be used for storage. Inside it contains Spider mines. When the cans opened the Mines flood out over the enemy ship. The first 1/3rd of the mines take out the ships shields but changing to whatever type of damage the ships weakest against, the second 1/3rd melt the armor and hull and the final 1/3rd destroy the Pod, a Strong deterrent against those after a easy profit. But wait theres more. The Frozen corpse left in space? 1 final drone latches onto the brain and drains the account of the late crim of all their Isk depositing it into the miners account making the Miners revenge complete.
These are pretty strong handed methods for dealing with can flippers and can only be used as a passive defense especially the 4th can type. "This will make miners untouchable! How can we rob them blind with these about?" Simple, An observant flipper will spot that the Mimic is larger than a normal Hulk and know to leave it alone, Or theres another option go be a pirate rather than a parasite. -------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.11.22 06:28:00 -
[2]
Dev time and questionable game changes aside...
For the price of this ship you could likely hire mercs to take out your can flippers for you.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.11.22 08:20:00 -
[3]
Someone is furious.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.11.22 08:33:00 -
[4]
Quote: The Frozen corpse left in space? 1 final drone latches onto the brain and drains the account of the late crim of all their Isk depositing it into the miners account making the Miners revenge complete.
Are you roleplaying an insane person?
I had a better idea for a jetcan for you... Its called an Orca! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Sakura Shiro
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Posted - 2010.11.22 08:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: OT Smithers Dev time and questionable game changes aside...
For the price of this ship you could likely hire mercs to take out your can flippers for you.
or just don't jet can mine and take 1.5 minutes to drop off rock at the station when full. No can to flip, can't be can flipped....simple yet effective.
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Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 11:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: OT Smithers Dev time and questionable game changes aside...
For the price of this ship you could likely hire mercs to take out your can flippers for you.
How are giving miners a way of defending themselves questionable? Right now even in hightsec a group can get together and take out a Hulk with ease, They have no fear of concord nor care about getting popped. Take Hulkageddon for example. Short of giving up on mining for the duration (Which i did) were defenseless even in highsec. Hiring Mercs sure thats an idea. Have tried it a few times myself, and every single time once the ore starts piling up guess what happens? They take the ore and run and/or pop my Hulk for lols. Show me some players who dont treat everyone outside their corp as a personal cash cow to be farmed and i will be impressed.
Originally by: captain foivos Someone is furious.
Not on this one lol, I actually put some thought into this idea after noticing the lack of ways for miners to defend themselves vs the many ways people can abuse them.
Originally by: Jint Hikaru Are you roleplaying an insane person?
I had a better idea for a jetcan for you... Its called an Orca!
Dunno why giving miners a way of getting revenge is insane. PvPers have more than enough ways to do this and far more, look at Ransoming for example. In a recent promo vid for EVE they show one person robbing an alliance blind out of revenge. Im just offering an idea for those of us who dont wish to be dragged into others lust for 'delicious tears' to get some back.
Oh and i fly an Orca, i wouldn't use it as a jetcan tho as leaving it sitting there while my hulk mines is an invite to someone to steal it. Hiring Miners to extract the ore for me while i sit in it in most cases will cost more than the value of the ore. I dont set the prices people demand, i just try to find realistic ways around it. Number 4 is basically placing TnT in a mining cart full of Ore then stealing the wallet of the sap that tried to steal it.
Originally by: Sakura Shiro
Originally by: OT Smithers Dev time and questionable game changes aside...
For the price of this ship you could likely hire mercs to take out your can flippers for you.
or just don't jet can mine and take 1.5 minutes to drop off rock at the station when full. No can to flip, can't be can flipped....simple yet effective.
Cant dispute that method its worked time and time again. Getting tired of having ore belts stripped by corp miner gangs while i unload however. And yea i have been looking for a corp i can mine/be mining foreman for. When i find one that wont break up after 5 minutes, have the CEO run off with the ore and funds, Or use me as live bait for rival corps to take pot shots at then my problems there will also be solved, for now however, i admittedly would like to be able to kill those who abuse us miners without having to divert my time into combat training. -------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
Fried'chickenisha
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Posted - 2010.11.22 12:22:00 -
[7]
Run a mission see if it has ore go mine that, make them work to find you. Or scan down a magnetometric site and mine that ore.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.11.22 13:26:00 -
[8]
Quote: Dunno why giving miners a way of getting revenge is insane. PvPers have more than enough ways to do this and far more, look at Ransoming for example. In a recent promo vid for EVE they show one person robbing an alliance blind out of revenge. Im just offering an idea for those of us who dont wish to be dragged into others lust for 'delicious tears' to get some back.
You do have a way of getting revenge, dont fall for can flipping, or simply dock up and get a pewpew ship out and chase him around with that.
A mining ship isnt meant to be an offensive craft. Can flipping is one of the risks of mining alone.
You seem like a sensible person (not wanting to jump into the first corp you see) etc, Have you thought about talking to other solo miners in your area and forming a small corp of your own? ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 14:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sililos on 22/11/2010 14:32:40 Before i continue with my post just wanna apologizes in advance if i come off hot tempered, im really struggling to keep my cool. I just lost a Maelstrom that took me months to work for, while doing Burning down the Hive, a group of Red players scanned me down and scrambled my ship and took it out. Dunno why Concord didn't pop them it was highsec. Its stuff like this that wish there was a way i could get revenge on people. I just wanna do my own thing and enjoy the game without getting my ass handed to me by players with a few years more experience. And this is why i dont like PvP, i have some combat skills, but my T2 drones, missiles and cannons couldn't scratch this Rifters shields even. Then she called in friends and well, knew i was screwed. At least logged so i wouldn't have to watch my ship go down yet again.
Back to topic. Tried the mission pocket thing, like my being popped tonight it didnt slow them down at all. They followed me from the station it seems or knew where i was going.
Tried the solo miners as well. They tend not to respond id guess most solo miners are AFKers. Not saying they all are since im not for example. Those that did respond wanted in some cases tens of millions of Isk for 10 minutes work. -------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.22 14:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sililos Before i continue with my post just wanna apologizes in advance if i come off hot tempered. I just lost a Maelstrom while doing Burning down the Hive, a group of Red players scanned me down and scrambled my ship and took it out. Dunno why Concord didn't pop them it was highsec. Its stuff like this that wish there was a way i could get revenge on people. I just wanna do my own thing and enjoy the game without getting my ass handed to me by players with a few years more experience.
Back to topic. Tried the mission pocket thing, like my being popped tonight it didnt slow them down at all. They followed me from the station it seems or knew where i was going.
Tried the solo miners as well. They tend not to respond id guess most solo miners are AFKers. Not saying they all are since im not for example.
If they werent popped by concord, one of three things occurred
1) This is an alt and your main is at war with them 2) You agro'd them by either shooting one of them after they stole from a can or you stole from one of theirs. 3) They used an exploit to get around concord, if this was the case you can petition
Otherwise you were ganked which means you now have kill rights on all involved in the ship loss (I believe) which means you can get the revenge you crave by fitting up a combat ship and popping each of them.
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Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 14:36:00 -
[11]
That ship was my combat ship with Full T2 modules. I couldn't even scratch that Rifter with it. Im going to lodge a petition as i was not the one who instigated combat here, The first player in question stole from my wrecks, then started orbiting me, i went for the acceleration gate and just before i got there was webbed and warp scrammed. I was then attacked. After a few moments a Second player in a red guardian warped in and they started tearing me apart. Now i tried to fight back by tossing everything i had at the rifter including 5 T2 drones which did nothing and went down in single shots.
Petition it is i think. -------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.22 14:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sililos Edited by: Sililos on 22/11/2010 14:37:03 That ship was my combat ship with Full T2 modules. I couldn't even scratch that Rifter with it. Im going to lodge a petition as i was not the one who instigated combat here, The first player in question stole from my wrecks, then started orbiting me, i went for the acceleration gate and just before i got there was webbed and warp scrammed. I was then attacked. After a few moments a Second player in a red guardian warped in and they started tearing me apart. Now i tried to fight back by tossing everything i had at the rifter including 5 T2 drones which did nothing and went down in single shots.
Petition it is i think.
BTW thanks for the advice rather than just flaming me, it helps.
You wont hit a rifter pilot in close orbit using a bs.
That to me sounds like how ever unwittingly you either stole from there can or attacked the rifter. The guardian was there to rep the rifter which means you drones probably wouldnt have broken the rifter either.
I dont think the petition will do much in that situation, as it is a perfectly legitimate manipulation of agro mechanics. The guardian would have turned red because repping the rifter agro'd him to you.
So yeah like i said that sound like either 1 or 2 is relevant from my list
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jint Hikaru on 22/11/2010 15:02:05
Quote: while doing Burning down the Hive, a group of Red players scanned me down and scrambled my ship and took it out. Dunno why Concord didn't pop them it was highsec.
This sucks, sorry to hear that. Is there no way that they could have had kill rights on you? Are you sure they didnt get concorded... sounds odd. If you are really sure that they didnt then you could petition... and cross your fingers!
EDIT: I left this response in the edit window for a while, looks like you got some good posts in answer to your issue in that time. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:27:00 -
[14]
This is a odd situation which is why im going to petition after i have had time to cool down.
It was the first zone of Burning down the hive. I warped in, Popped the NPC drones and began to chug my way towards them. The Rifter came into the zone well away from me, i thought maybe the first room is public so thought nothing of it, It looted the wrecks i popped. It turned Bright Red with the skull (Not bright red without). I grumbled at being "Ninja looted" so changed course towards the acceleration gate thinking id carry on. The Rifter then started orbiting me, I gave been goaded into attacking before this way so knew it was a stupid thing to do, i ignored the rifter and carried onto the gate. as i reached about 7000kms from the gate the rifter locks onto me but doesn't attack, i withhold action knowing it would be stupid to attack, i get to 3000kms from the gate and find myself webbed but manage to get to 2500, By now im being shot at but hit the activate gate button, its then i notice i have been warp scrambled so i do the only thing i can, i try to free myself by launching my 5 med T2 drones, the Rifters shields dont even budge and it picks off my drones with single autocannon vollys. All i had left were my large autocannons and arties which i guessed wouldn't hit her but i used anyway, and my Heavy and assault missiles which also did no damage to her. At this point the guardian warped in and was instantly red despite being 30k kms away, it started laying into me with long range weapons while approaching. At that point i logged out not wanting to see my 2nd Maelstrom get destroyed.
I did nothing to provoke this, I do not know the opponents nor did i even see their names, and Concord did nothing in the 5 minutes this all was taking place. -------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sililos This is a odd situation which is why im going to petition after i have had time to cool down.
It was the first zone of Burning down the hive. I warped in, Popped the NPC drones and began to chug my way towards them. The Rifter came into the zone well away from me, i thought maybe the first room is public so thought nothing of it, It looted the wrecks i popped. It turned Bright Red with the skull (Not bright red without). I grumbled at being "Ninja looted" so changed course towards the acceleration gate thinking id carry on. The Rifter then started orbiting me, I gave been goaded into attacking before this way so knew it was a stupid thing to do, i ignored the rifter and carried onto the gate. as i reached about 7000kms from the gate the rifter locks onto me but doesn't attack, i withhold action knowing it would be stupid to attack, i get to 3000kms from the gate and find myself webbed but manage to get to 2500, By now im being shot at but hit the activate gate button, its then i notice i have been warp scrambled so i do the only thing i can, i try to free myself by launching my 5 med T2 drones, the Rifters shields dont even budge and it picks off my drones with single autocannon vollys. All i had left were my large autocannons and arties which i guessed wouldn't hit her but i used anyway, and my Heavy and assault missiles which also did no damage to her. At this point the guardian warped in and was instantly red despite being 30k kms away, it started laying into me with long range weapons while approaching. At that point i logged out not wanting to see my 2nd Maelstrom get destroyed.
I did nothing to provoke this, I do not know the opponents nor did i even see their names, and Concord did nothing in the 5 minutes this all was taking place.
Is it possible you were webbed and scrammed by a rat, and in a haze mistook it for the rifter launching your drones on it. This then aggressed you to the rifter and he could then shoot. The guardian on the other hand would have turned red due to repping the rifter(I imagine) but would not be able to shoot you without you first shooting him. Otherwise he would have been concorded.
But all in all it sounds like you were attacked by ninja looters who steal meaningless items from a mission wreck and wait for the mission runner to aggress them, they then either bring in a repping ship to keep there ship alive or swap out for something bigger.
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Zanzbar
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:50:00 -
[16]
try mining in a less populated area of space, a can flipper is going to go to high population areas so they have a higher chance of finding somone who will fall for their tactics. as for geting revenge, dont, any most can flipeprs could care less about your ore as their main goal is getting you to attack them or give them agresion rights in some other form so they can kill you. if you simply ignore the can flipper they will most likly get bored after a while and just leave for a differnt target.
a good can flipper wont even realy need a second account, they will be able to make the most inocent looking ship be able to kill you without assistance, even an industrial ship can be fit well enough to kill many peoples crusiers.
tldr: untill you have a better understanding of combat mechanics its best that you stay away from thoughts of revenge as you are just renewing the agressors intrest in you by handing them easy kills
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Sililos
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.11.22 16:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Korg Leaf
Is it possible you were webbed and scrammed by a rat, and in a haze mistook it for the rifter launching your drones on it. This then aggressed you to the rifter and he could then shoot. The guardian on the other hand would have turned red due to repping the rifter(I imagine) but would not be able to shoot you without you first shooting him. Otherwise he would have been concorded.
But all in all it sounds like you were attacked by ninja looters who steal meaningless items from a mission wreck and wait for the mission runner to aggress them, they then either bring in a repping ship to keep there ship alive or swap out for something bigger.
The area was 100% cleared first, It was only me and said Rifter in there. GMs say there is no history of aggression on the Rifter and Guardians parts tho they did loot my wreck, they said i should have kill rights but there are none. Im saying they are exploiting tho Gms are saying theres no signs of it.
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You dont Pay to Play EVE, You pay to Watch Eve! |
Markus Reese
Caldari Lorentzian Expeditionaries
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Posted - 2010.11.22 16:26:00 -
[18]
Some mission, I think rift might be one has proximity spawns. Nothing spawned later? Because you agressed back, you would not get kill rights. Open your loss log by copying it into word or posting it into battleclinic if they didn't. You should see if any npcs had agressed. If on battleclinic, put up link
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Drake Iddon
Racketeers
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Posted - 2010.11.23 12:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: captain foivos Someone is furious.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.23 18:49:00 -
[20]
1) Mine in an arbitrator, use mining drones, 2) Abandon them as soon as the flipper shows up, 3) Scram them and engage AB, launch Valkyries 4) ??? 5) Profit =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
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Tyme Xandr
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Posted - 2010.11.23 19:02:00 -
[21]
A warp scrambler cant stop u from using an accell gate. Also he cant attack u unless u aggressed him after he went red, its as simple as that. If u didnt aggress him then concord would have shot him, period.
And CCP will never reward u ur isk on any type of petition. They will say 'There was nothing in the logs'. However, being a merc/ninja salvager/etc, i can tell u u aggressed them, its the only way they could have sat there bombarding u for so long.
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Uronksur Suth
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:04:00 -
[22]
This is a fairly awful idea.
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Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Marchocias on 23/11/2010 23:46:02 So you want a hulk, with the same mining output, but zero risk?
Dude your plan is ridiculously unbalanced.
I don't even do can flipping because its boring, but it is part of the game, so suck it up. There are all kinds of things you can do to combat the problem, which don't require massive numbers of development hours going into one very specific and pretty weird idea. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sililos the Rifters shields dont even budge and it picks off my drones with single autocannon vollys. All i had left were my large autocannons and arties which i guessed wouldn't hit her but i used anyway, and my Heavy and assault missiles which also did no damage to her.
This bit made me curious. I almost wish I didn't look. ___________
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garus banta
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Posted - 2010.11.24 07:58:00 -
[25]
let say CCP implemented your idea, suddenly you dont need other people to help you survive you can play solo, granted maybe that is how you prefer to play but the whole point of your ship being weak and defenseless is that it should encourage you to team up with outhers so you can survive and fight those who can flip you.
Convo me in game and we would be happy to bring you on board to our corp.
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